Future WDW Additions/Expansion

[Tobias]

Throwing in the D23 blue sky "maybe we'll do this" faux announcements sure didn't help with building fan confidence either.

I honestly feel that was probably one of the most damaging things they could've done to anyone's confidence in them. It was nuts when they did it the first time, and it was insane when they did the second time in a row. When folks were wanting to hear what was actually coming, they got a double nothing burger. And that's a factor on why everything is riding on the presentation at D23 this Summer, with all the hype and whatnot coming out...people need that confirmation that yes, these things are actually happening. That's really the only way they can start to build trust back up.

 

[Mad Dog]

and....don't discount the Board of Directors fight that ended this week. If the private Equity Investor groups would have won, I can just about guarantee you that investment in the parks would be mostly held back, and profits channeled into investors pockets
instead of capital projects.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

It's openly known that Tron was deliberately delayed for months at one point despite being a straight up clone. And so on.

I'd go as far to say that Tron was deliberately delayed by over a year. It was originally supposed to open in Fall 2021.

 

[TheUniC6]

He also had some info regarding Disneyland and international parks, as well as clarifications on the WDW stuff:

• Magic Kingdom - Tomorrowland Speedway will get update like DL, BTMR will get update, new nighttime parade is now a lock, and Stitch replacement will *not* be announced at D23.
  
  
• Epcot - Clarified that Inside Out is not a Figment replacement, he's heard that it'll just have its own new attraction in Epcot's future. Also said to keep an eye out for one more Epcot announcement at D23 this year.
  
  
• Disneyland - Avatar with unique River Journey using Shanghai PotC tech, Tomorrowland finally gets major overhaul with new Peoplemover, Hollywoodland replaced, Disney Springs-esque district expansion
  
  
• Disney Studios - Avatar and Lion King land
  
  
• Disneyland Paris - Soarin' 2.0, Indiana Jones Adventure, new version of Rise?
  
  
• Shanghai - New Marvel land + Midway Mania
  
  
• Hong Kong - Tomorrowland getting a new E-ticket, but won't be announced at D23

Mystic Henry, the insider who shared the above slate of additions to the Disney parks, mentioned that the Avengers E ticket will get an actual announcement at D23 2024. Perhaps more eye opening though was that a few posts down, he claimed he was hearing DLR and WDW will get a 3rd and 5th gate respectfully, and perhaps the international parks will get additional gates as well.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

This is the main point I just came in here to make. I fully believe these new expansions will happen tbh, but I get the skepticism some have.

Despite Disney adding a good amount of content in the past decade, as several have pointed out, almost all of them were bogged down in some way, shape, or form to the point where the construction has stuck in a lot of fans' minds. It was mentioned earlier, but Epcot was under construction for years on years doing the absolute bare minimum amount of changes. The end results were great, but it should've taken 1/4th of the time it actually did, especially when the park was left in the state it was. It's openly known that Tron was deliberately delayed for months at one point despite being a straight up clone. And so on.

The same goes for the cancellations/delays on things like Spaceship Earth. It was pretty much a given that they'd circle back to it at some point, but it's embarrassing to get everyone's hopes up and then just quietly shutter the plans. These things happening just once would be whatever, but it's been years of these tiny little frustrations building up to the point where I get why a lot of fans just straight up doubt Disney's abilities to an extent (despite not really being one of them). Throwing in the D23 blue sky "maybe we'll do this" faux announcements sure didn't help with building fan confidence either.

But when the net new is the same as the standard to which you’re comparing to, why does any of that make a difference?

 

[Tbad556]

But when the net new is the same as the standard to which you’re comparing to, why does any of that make a difference?

Because at the end of the day, guests see a mess of an Epcot, a TRON coaster that should’ve been open in time for their trip being voluntarily shuttered, a Spaceship Earth that they acknowledged needed an update but is no longer getting it, a Galaxy’s Edge that should’ve had its main ride open with the land, a WDW railroad that was shuttered for the 50th anniversary, a Marvel land that STILL doesn’t have its main attraction even under construction, and so on and it puts a bad taste in peoples’ mouths. The end result may be the same, but the process does affect peoples’ vacations at the end of the day and can lead passholders to ask why they should keep paying annually.

 

[Jake S]

I think the process affects hyper focused fans like is far more than it affects regular people taking vacations.

 

[Nico]

He also had some info regarding Disneyland and international parks, as well as clarifications on the WDW stuff:

• Magic Kingdom - Tomorrowland Speedway will get update like DL, BTMR will get update, new nighttime parade is now a lock, and Stitch replacement will *not* be announced at D23.
  
  
• Epcot - Clarified that Inside Out is not a Figment replacement, he's heard that it'll just have its own new attraction in Epcot's future. Also said to keep an eye out for one more Epcot announcement at D23 this year.
  
  
• Disneyland - Avatar with unique River Journey using Shanghai PotC tech, Tomorrowland finally gets major overhaul with new Peoplemover, Hollywoodland replaced, Disney Springs-esque district expansion
  
  
• Disney Studios - Avatar and Lion King land
  
  
• Disneyland Paris - Soarin' 2.0, Indiana Jones Adventure, new version of Rise?
  
  
• Shanghai - New Marvel land + Midway Mania
  
  
• Hong Kong - Tomorrowland getting a new E-ticket, but won't be announced at D23

That’s a shocking amount of projects for Disney. I don’t want to be a skeptic, but a lot of this has been a part of fan spec for years. That amount of projects makes it feel a bit like wish fulfillment to me. If this all happens, it will be mind blowing; but fool me once…

 

[Nick]

I think the process affects hyper focused fans like is far more than it affects regular people taking vacations.

Yeah, regular people taking vacations don’t look and angrily think “why isn’t it open yet”, they look at it and think “cool, they’re building something new”.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Yeah, regular people taking vacations don’t look and angrily think “why isn’t it open yet”, they look at it and think “cool, they’re building something new”.

Yeah…construction and temporary closures are part of any new construction/new ride. I’m not getting that side of it either.

 

[Jake S]

Yeah, regular people taking vacations don’t look and angrily think “why isn’t it open yet”, they look at it and think “cool, they’re building something new”.

We missed Tron by one week last year and we were definitely bummed … but no one was angry or (other than me) even aware how long it had been in the works.

 

[Nick]

We missed Tron by one week last year and we were definitely bummed … but no one was angry or (other than me) even aware how long it had been in the works.

Yeah that’s a lot what I’m getting at. The D23 announcement strategy may lead to a ton of stuff being announced all at once and not open until years later, but like you said, if you don’t follow it like we do, you aren’t going to know how long these things are being worked on.

Epic was announced in 2019 and the public is just now really finding out about it existing. Of course that’s an entire park, but still. The point is that there’s theme park announcements geared towards investors and fans, and then there’s announcements geared towards the general public to entice them to visit.

 

[wutisgood]

My preference is rolling announcements over the course of the next few years, Universal-style, as opposed to it all being dropped at once and then having to wait years to see it all come to fruition, as we watch things inevitably get budget-cut or just straight up cancelled. D23 is less fun for me when it seems like these announcements are still not actually guaranteed. Play Pavilion, Poppins, Spaceship Earth, Communicore Hub, multiple large elements of Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge. Fool me once, shame on me, yknow?

Sorry about the pessimism, I would love to be hyped for this stuff but I just find it a bit difficult at this point.

I don't think Disney is going to cancel a lot this time. I think they are reaching a point where actual growth means the need to build more attractions in parks. We already know about serious growth in Disney cruise line. Sport's isn't the cash cow it was given the cable decline and rumors of selling off all or part of espn. Disney plus will probably be a cash cow eventually but they wont be able to raise prices high enough fast enough for it to be a huge growth center as cable continues to die. I think Finally they have actually decided they want to commit to expansion of capacity because they need more people physically in the parks to grow revenue.

That being said I don't think they need to announce it all at once IF they are able to prioritize enough construction to open early.

It's an ambitious slate if it's real (and all happening by 2030, say).

Disney is so far behind on what they need to satisfy demand that they should build all of this by then and should still have future expansions on standby.

 

[Nick]

Yeah announcing this stuff is all well and good, but they have to announce other stuff at other D23’s while building this stuff so they have a constant flow of new things instead of a bunch of new stuff and then just waiting until you get to the end of the new stuff and realize “oh crap, we actually need to announce stuff again”.

 

[tielo]

I remember being excited for Test Track to open and it delayed over and over again. When open I was excited about the speed but the trills where quite low and the beaustiful dark ride decors where replaced with an empty building and some element. I was "general public" then and the endless unfinished ride was a downer ever visit for me. I'm sure other guests would have different feelings.

Construction is fine, it'd needed to get new and exciting things. Things can take a bit longer when it has new ride mechanics but taking good part of a decade to plant some trees and some benches is anoying every guest. Closing a ride without first adding a new one (in a park who already has a few rides) to help with the crowds is just inconsiderate.
If Universal can build Tansformers in the middle of a park, in time (11 months) to alleviate the pressure on Diagon Alley, I am sure Disney can meet that level of customer care and up them.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

That's an awesome thought. The big plus though, is that I'm of the belief that these coming attractions will force Universal to keep IOA and USF in tip top shape, instead of sitting on Epics' laurels. So, as I said before, this is all going to be a win win for us theme park fans. This is a war coming, and fans will reap the rewards (though we'll probably pay more for them ).

This is why I'm excited about all these ideas... Universal won't be able to just sit and reap in the benefits from Epic. They'll be the talk of the town for 2 years... but after that Disney can easily take it all back and Universal needs to be prepared.

I think D23 is going to be interesting this year.

I have a feeling it'll be the best slate of D23 announcements. After a 4-year period of consistent backlash on multiple projects, I think they'll deliver. The last two years were them just cranking up the engine from a nearly dead state, so I can excuse the blue sky stuff.

Then again, this company can always surprise us and we get Target announcements lol

What are you talking about in relation to communicore hub? The New Epcot hub is pretty much fully done and absolutely quaint and a lovely place as a local to bring a laptop and just hangout while drinking Starbucks. It gives actual “park” vibes.

Starbucks, a book, and one of those lawn chairs is now the best attraction in Orlando. Took way too long to build, but I really hope Universal will install seating areas throughout Celestial as it'll truly be bringing back "the park in theme park."

It’s as if there’s more to theme park development than just building rides.

All of this extra development that Disney “should have been doing” all these years… where is everyone finding the couple thousand extra people needed to run all of that?

With I-4 construction now underway to help reduce congestion, it should help alleviate all of this (hopefully) in 5-ish years...

Disney (or RCID prior to takeover) also filed a ridiculous amount of road improvement projects (includes Western Way) to alleviate congestion.

I'm not as skeptical as some since I believe the parameters have changed considerably. The outsized hope for Disney + is now muted, the film division is in retreat, media isn't hot.....and it seems like Disney is finally realizing that their theme parks are the real cash cow, and they're going to invest in it so it remains a cash cow.

Yup - 2 years ago it was fair to be critical (and to a degree it still is) but Disney is finally investing again. Even though we had "new" stuff open in the past 3-4 years, those were all pre-Covid projects already financed/started.

Mystic Henry, the insider who shared the above slate of additions to the Disney parks, mentioned that the Avengers E ticket will get an actual announcement at D23 2024. Perhaps more eye opening though was that a few posts down, he claimed he was hearing DLR and WDW will get a 3rd and 5th gate respectfully, and perhaps the international parks will get additional gates as well.

lol a 5th gate happening at WDW will be shocking unless they are looking 10-15 years down the road and these DAK improvements are their "answer" to the half-day park experience.

Yeah announcing this stuff is all well and good, but they have to announce other stuff at other D23’s while building this stuff so they have a constant flow of new things instead of a bunch of new stuff and then just waiting until you get to the end of the new stuff and realize “oh crap, we actually need to announce stuff again”.

My assumption is that we'll get a heavy details on DAK (to finally convince us this is not Blue Sky) along with a "every park is getting something" comment in the next x years.

 

[Nick]

My assumption is that we'll get a heavy details on DAK (to finally convince us this is not Blue Sky) along with a "every park is getting something" comment in the next x years.

Yeah I’m assuming something like that. Very concrete details on DAK projects and a peak projects coming or at least an acknowledgment that the other projects are happening with early art. I then would expect at either Destination D 2025 or D23 2026 we get actual full details on non-DAK stuff.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Yeah I’m assuming something like that. Very concrete details on DAK projects and a peak projects coming or at least an acknowledgment that the other projects are happening with early art. I then would expect at either Destination D 2025 or D23 2026 we get actual full details on non-DAK stuff.

Yeah, I think DAK will get a similar focus/high-level overview like Epcot got a few years back showcasing an overview of the park with future additions.

Animal Kingdom - heavy focus on Dinoland, a quick overview of the park with vague concepts of Africa expansion & new nighttime show
Magic Kingdom - if that Moana rumor is true, I'd say this is the emphasis with the beyond thunder concept art made more clearer (along with Frontierland possibly confirmed to be rethemed to New Orleans Square).
Hollywood Studios - I think they'll surprise us with a project for Animation Courtyard & retheme of RNRC.
Epcot - Test Track details and possibly SSE. (SSE ride system is dying lol)

One other project they might emphasize is a new resort at the ol' River Country site.

 

[SeventyOne]

Disney's moves seem to always be responsive rather than proactive. They wait and do nothing until forced by UNI's hand. Then, they announce stuff that takes years to build and say, "Look at what we did and how awesome for you that we chose to do this." Meanwhile, families go to that other resort and see that there is more than one player in the Orlando game.

This is true largely because it's generally worked. Universal Studios was far from a home run out of the gate--in those early years, it still trailed Sea World. WDW allegedly had plans ready if IoA was a hit (ironically, a villains land). But IoA was not a hit its first decade. Potter proved a game-changer, but since then Universal has had rides from two of the hottest IPs (F&S, Despicable Me) but neither's ever had that Potter effect again.

Is everyone going to slam Nintendo Land when it opens? Of course. But will EU prove to be a 2-day park? Will the bulk of its guests be cannabalized from USO/IoA? These are things that should be answered before going all in on a "response."

 

[Mad Dog]

The other thing to remember is that prior to Potter, Disney considered the Orlando theme park market as a 'mature market'. One of the main reasons they invested very little in that first decade of the century. Of course, Potter proved that concept very very wrong. The market, obviously, was not a mature market, and Disney has played catch up since then, with Hogsmeade first, and Diagon second, prompting much of the expansion, especially immersive lands, that came down the pike at WDW. Chapek was a speed bump, but now with the other Disney divisions flat, they really need that huge cache of funny money that the parks produce for them. So, again, here comes the new stuff.