Halloween Horror Nights 22 Discussion

[Octobers Fade]

I agree with most of what you said Fallow, and it was well said.

 

[SeventyOne]

Basically... keep investing into the resort (Islands, Uni, Citywalk, Hotels), but I'm hoping they don't cut HHN at the expense of that.

I think everyone can agree on that. Really hoping this is just an outlier year because of all the construction, but you make some solid points in your earlier posts.

HHNXX had what many consider to be a lackluster set of houses - with the only stand outs being Hallow'd Past, HAVOC, and Catacombs. The latter two many now feel are overrated. (I thought HAVOC was though I give props to those actors, Catacombs was IMO a really solid house.)

HAVOC should've been a below average house, at best, but man, that cast made it work some how. Proof that even a bad house/SZ can be saved by an outstanding cast (I'd probably include 7 as another example--that could've gone badly). Hallow'd Past was "by the fanbois, for the fanbois"--if you're the type of person who posts in this thread, I don't think you can be objective about it. Hades and Legendary Truth were alright, but felt like they were missing something--in particular, LT was way too dependent on timing. Orfanage suffered the "curse of the Jaws house." Zombiegeddon had a fun video, but pales in comparison to other comedy houses over the years.

But I will defend Catacombs to the death. :boxing:

 

[Octobers Fade]

I think everyone can agree on that. Really hoping this is just an outlier year because of all the construction, but you make some solid points in your earlier posts.




HAVOC should've been a below average house, at best, but man, that cast made it work some how. Proof that even a bad house/SZ can be saved by an outstanding cast (I'd probably include 7 as another example--that could've gone badly). Hallow'd Past was "by the fanbois, for the fanbois"--if you're the type of person who posts in this thread, I don't think you can be objective about it. Hades and Legendary Truth were alright, but felt like they were missing something--in particular, LT was way too dependent on timing. Orfanage suffered the "curse of the Jaws house." Zombiegeddon had a fun video, but pales in comparison to other comedy houses over the years.

But I will defend Catacombs to the death. :boxing:

Loved Catacombs.
And the Jaws curse was broke last year with S&S, its not the location its how you use it.
I thought LT was weak and Hades as well, lots of things were missing when I went through, happened wat too much that year.
But in the end it ALL just opinions.

 

[Clive]

I think everyone can agree on that. Really hoping this is just an outlier year because of all the construction, but you make some solid points in your earlier posts.




HAVOC should've been a below average house, at best, but man, that cast made it work some how. Proof that even a bad house/SZ can be saved by an outstanding cast (I'd probably include 7 as another example--that could've gone badly). Hallow'd Past was "by the fanbois, for the fanbois"--if you're the type of person who posts in this thread, I don't think you can be objective about it. Hades and Legendary Truth were alright, but felt like they were missing something--in particular, LT was way too dependent on timing. Orfanage suffered the "curse of the Jaws house." Zombiegeddon had a fun video, but pales in comparison to other comedy houses over the years.

But I will defend Catacombs to the death. :boxing:

I'd really like to believe it's an outlier year, too. As I've been saying... they've got my four years of trust this year. If they botch it, well... fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me.

I actually agree on almost every point you made about HHNXX's houses. HAVOC should've seriously been pretty bad, but those casts made it something to behold (and of course, logic will tell you it had to do with their costuming requirement...) It's funny how the cast issue can work in reverse, as well... you could have an absolutely stunning house visually that ends up tanking due to an awful cast. (It's even more awkward when one cast is great, and one cast... isn't. Nightingales!)

Incidentally, I really thought Hallow'd Past was a huge missed opportunity and I resent it for that. It wasn't so much Hallow'd Past as it was "several rooms from 2008 and a Frightanic scene." (I know there were prop rooms plus Treaks/Foons, but come on.) The house was alright, but man, as someone who was looking forward to a taste from the years I missed... I was disappointed to recognize almost everything from the previous two years.

I agree with everything else, except I really enjoyed OrFanage for some reason. The scenic design in that really got to me, and some of those actors got very skilled in their roles.

 

[Cwoolboy]

I still consider 2011 to be my favorite year thus far, some of the best houses I've had the pleasure of going thru (Saws N Steam, Winter's Night, Nevermore). True, i was seriously disappointed in Lady Luck and her failure to tie the event together, and the theme and scarezones were lackluster....but the quality of the houses more than made up for all of that year's faults.

As for this year, if LT gets to play a role in the "story" or even gets its own house again I'll be fine. LOVE me some LT!!!!

 

[Brian G.]

I think you misunderstand me again - I'm referring solely to HHN, not the park at large. Universal Studios the park has gotten and is continuing to get a lot of love... and that's awesome. But if Halloween Horror Nights gets continuously cut at the expense of that, then that really blows for the HHN fans... especially since HHN is what helped keep the parks afloat during the "dark ages" in the first place. They seem to have seen the error of their ways with the website (or hopefully have) and that'll be rectified next year. I could see the reliance on IPs, a seven-house count, and/or even repeat houses occur if this year is brings in the same amount of people without too much complaining. That's what I don't want to see happen - those are the trends I'm referring to.

Basically... keep investing into the resort (Islands, Uni, Citywalk, Hotels), but I'm hoping they don't cut HHN at the expense of that.

I think you're missing what I'm saying...

Universal can't spend money on everything, and this year is not the start of trend.

 

[Clive]

I think you're missing what I'm saying...

Universal can't spend money on everything, and this year is not the start of trend.

It's a comedy of errors!

Well... the whole theory of "Universal has to spend X amount to avoid being taxed X amount" sorta contradicts that, at least the way I see it... unless said $$ has to be spent in a certain way. I'm not a tax/financial expert, clearly. :look: It's also not in their best interest to ever "decline," regardless of the reason - but I'd like to agree with you and hope this isn't the start of a trend.

 

[JungleSkip]

So we havent seen the event but we already know its a bad trend. Good to know

 

[ralphoutloud]

The loss of JAWS will have some effect on capacity - just because it sometimes was a walk-on didn't mean it was helping. As I mentioned earlier it's a relatively high capacity attraction (especially when compared to DM), and I often saw it at an at least 15 minute posted wait. The real issue will develop from the lack of the JAWS queue house, though. That space corralled a huge amount of people and I'm very curious to see how the crowds flow this year with its absence. Again - HHNXX wasn't that great. HHN is not infallible.

And a brand new ride like Despicable Me won't have more than a 15 minute wait? Just because a ride is higher capacity doesn't mean it hoards in the crowds. They could open up Twister or Disaster, two of the highest capacity rides in the park, but if there's only a 5-minute wait for either and no one riding, and a 20 minute wait for something like Despicable Me, it doesn't really matter the capacity, just the fact that people are riding it.

DM has been getting waits of 80 minutes this week, I'm sure it will 100% be open for HHN and will always have a 15-20 minute wait (which in effect is a greater capacity than 1-2 Jaws boats), something Jaws couldn't consistently do at HHN. And believe me I'm the biggest Jaws fan on this site or probably anywhere for that matter. DM for Jaws isn't a bad tradeoff and you will see a lot of people riding it this haunt season.

I enjoyed HHNXX and it won a Best of award and set record attendance, even though some may disagree in it's quality...counts as a W.

 

[DisneyFanKevin]

I am pretty sure DM:MM will have a significantly higher wait than 15 minutes during HHN if it is operating frankly because of a) the minions and b) it's a new ride. People are going to want to go to that and Rockit as they most likely will be the front attractions near a house that will be open, so it'll be a nice escape for some, lol. I, too, enjoyed HHN XX and I thought the houses were well done.

 

[Jakemeister]

The budget went up last year....by a decent amount. Go look at the houses, it's quite evident there.

Also, I heard a rumor the Skool[house], one of the two might be back. Grain of salt though.

 

[Hatetofly]

The budget went up last year....by a decent amount. Go look at the houses, it's quite evident there.

Also, I heard a rumor the Skool[house], one of the two might be back. Grain of salt though.

Skool wasn't real bad, the idea was great but the execution was just off. For me the Thunder Falls Terrace never really pulled it off but whatcha gonna do.

 

[EagleSkyline]

Favorite year for me was probably 2008, 2009, or 2011.

 

[TheDecemberists]

This year my fear is that the sets will have more effort put into them then the scares

But but but I like nice sets... (._.)

 

[Clive]

So we havent seen the event but we already know its a bad trend. Good to know

Who said there was definitely a trend? I'm only worried certain elements/tendencies (seven house-count, reliance on IPs, no elaborate website, etc.) don't become a trend due to the strong rumors that the event is under Hollywood's management.

And a brand new ride like Despicable Me won't have more than a 15 minute wait? Just because a ride is higher capacity doesn't mean it hoards in the crowds. They could open up Twister or Disaster, two of the highest capacity rides in the park, but if there's only a 5-minute wait for either and no one riding, and a 20 minute wait for something like Despicable Me, it doesn't really matter the capacity, just the fact that people are riding it.

DM has been getting waits of 80 minutes this week, I'm sure it will 100% be open for HHN and will always have a 15-20 minute wait (which in effect is a greater capacity than 1-2 Jaws boats), something Jaws couldn't consistently do at HHN. And believe me I'm the biggest Jaws fan on this site or probably anywhere for that matter. DM for Jaws isn't a bad tradeoff and you will see a lot of people riding it this haunt season.

I enjoyed HHNXX and it won a Best of award and set record attendance, even though some may disagree in it's quality...counts as a W.

Despicable Me WILL be popular and will likely hold a long wait... I'm just pointing out that JAWS can (could) swallow capacity faster than Despicable Me can. That's it. Despicable Me will help, the real crowd flow issues come from the 7 (instead of 8) house count. As for HHNXX... I'm discussing quality here, not attendance numbers. 2008 supposedly had a steep decline in attendance from 2007 yet that's many people's favorite. As for the Golden Ticket Award it received, I don't put too much stock into that. Uni can call it a win since it got them good publicity and $$... but in many fans' eyes it was a disappointment from what it was made up to be.

The budget went up last year....by a decent amount. Go look at the houses, it's quite evident there.

Also, I heard a rumor the Skool[house], one of the two might be back. Grain of salt though.

Yeah, it showed in the houses (except for In-Between, which managed to be one of the best anyway). I've noted the budget increase (plus raises for A&D!) thanks to the resort's/Potter's/HHNXX's success. That's part of why I'm baffled we didn't have an eighth house planned pre-SS44, since Comcast is throwing $$ at everything else...

I heard the same rumor, regarding them being in a zone again.

 

[The_Bled]

If Rockit during HHN 20 and 21 was at a 60+ wait consistently, I think it's safe to say that we will see DM at a 45+. By the way, has anyone seen Parade Building lately? A ton of canoes and doors outside of it. Looks weird.

 

[John321]

If DM is open I see it being the normal 75 plus.

 

[SeventyOne]

I still think most of you are seriously overestimating the appeal of DM to an HHN crowd. This is not a theme park junkie crowd--this is a ton of Dr. Phillips high school kids and UCF frat boys and horror junkies. It's easy to lose sight of when you've just left a serious discussion of the aesthetics of Princess Ariel's new castle, but DM is a kids' ride--most HHN guests are actively opposed to kids' rides. Throw in the large number of FFPs who come just for HHN, not the rides (especially one that offers the exact same experience as during the day), and I just don't see it being that popular.

 

[Spirit of 74]

Sad to say this year looks closer to 2010 than 2011, Spirit (at least in my opinion). How good the event looks depends on what "expert" you ask... but it would appear that Universal's HHN is currently going through a sort of "One Disney" phase, with Orlando borrowing heavily from Hollywood's event and practices. IPs are being "shared" between the events, complete with joint announcements (Silent Hill, Walking Dead, and Alice Cooper). To be fair this has occurred before (in 2007 with Freddy/Jason Leatherface), 09 (SAW), and 11 (THING), but it would appear that the Orlando event is "under new management" with significant cuts. There will be seven houses this year, not eight (and regardless of what some will tell you, I have it on good authority that eight houses could've been done if they truly wanted to); the sudden SS44 demolition caused them to scrap a planned Chupacabra house and hastily come up with an alleged "classic monsters on the cheap" house in the Parade Building.

Due to the SuperStar parade several scare zone areas will likely be without props/sets, relying on fog/audio/lighting. There's a lot of rumors about some elaborate "war" to take place between the zones, but from what I'm hearing that sounds like a lot of PR speak that will dissolve into essentially nothing out of the ordinary. (Look what happened to Nightmaze.) The rumor is we'll have six zones with two roaming hordes.

That is sad to hear. I considered last year to be a high point. The event had, to me at least, become too repetitive. Every house seemed to be themed to crazy killers wanting to dismember me (to be fair, a lot of fanbois would like that!) ... But it really seemed to lose something to me. And I had been attending annually since the mid-90s with only a few years missed (2009 would be the most recent).

I think what I LOVED about last year's event was that it truly seemed that every house was unique ... and the storylines on many were quite cool. I get that many fans of HHNs want to simply go and get drunk and get chased around by folks with pretend chainsaws. I think that was fun for me for maybe one visit. I like storytelling and placemaking and UNI's crew did a phenomenal job last year. I'd have to look at my brochure, but I think there was only one house that was sorta MEH (talking like I'm 23 now!) to me.

The event reminded me of Disney, believe it or not. ... No, not the friendly kiddie event MNSSHP (something that also was fun ... once ... before the Walmarting) but I'm talking of HKDL's Halloween celebration where they definitely go for the chills (not as gory as UNI at all) but have incredible houses with great production values that tell stories.

Anyway, that was what I got out of last year. 2010 made me wonder if the event had jumped the proverbial shark (does that age me?)

Other cuts include the lack of an elaborate website, which has existed for Orlando since 2004. Hollywood has never had a fancy website, so this is most likely another side effect of trying to get Orlando to mirror Hollywood. We may apparently still get some "games" due to the backlash, but all of the build-up/momentum/storytelling has been lost to social media... which has kept me very unengaged so far. Anyone who reads your posts well knows your stance on social media... It would appear no icon/overarching theme, either (ie Lady Luck last year). This is yet another side effect of Hollywood - in the past when the events "shared" IPs, Orlando maintained its identity with the huge themes that tied everything in (Carnival of Carnage, Ripped from the Silver Screen, etc.)

That is sad to hear. I've never been to UNI-Hollywood's event because I'm never out there (even when I once lived part-time out there) when it's been going on. I know they stopped having it for years, just not wanting to compete with the Haunt at Knott's. Not sure how long it's been back now? 5-6 years? I will be out there when both events start next month, but only have time for one and am doing the Haunt because an Imagineering friend says it's where I should go if I can only do one.

It really appears the event this year has been a victim of last minute decision-making & changes as well as a change in managerial direction; lots of improvisation and disconnected ideas (Silent Hill was allegedly a last minute grab.) The stuff that puts Orlando's event over the top (the elaborate website, plot, icon characters, etc.) appears to be missing this year. I could go on for days about this stuff, though, so I'll stop my cynicism here and continue to hope that this year's event is still a great one.

Well, it could be that with all the concrete additions and things happening that the event was sort of put on cruise control for 2012. I can't blame them if that's the case. But I am hoping for the best ... when I didn't go in 2009, it was because I wasn't very happy with 2008 (either the product or the rowdy, actually out of control, morons in the crowd) and only went in 2010 because a friend bought me a ticket.

I really want to get back to the days when I was psyched about this event as soon as the last one ended.

 

[Spirit of 74]

The problem for me is a "storyline" for HHN always reminds me of the Merriweather Pleasure "storyline" for Pleasure Island. Yeah, a couple of hard-core fanbois really got into it, but it went completely over the heads of the average guest, making all that effort essentially wasted. At the end of the day, I'd much rather have good houses and good SZs with no connection than mediocre that tie into some goth soap opera. Frankly, the same goes for an icon--it's just for marketing, and so Gen Y kids can take a picture for Facebook (or Instagram or whatever kids are doing these days--hey, get off my lawn!). It could just be a pumpkin on the billboards and I'd still be going.

Re: 2012. Not worried about the SZs--props are nice, but back in the day they did wonders with just fog and music. Cautiously optimistic about the houses we're getting--those are always hard to pre-judge, but P&T, gargoyles and classic monsters all sound like they could be instant classics. But still worried about crowds given that we're down one house plus Jaws. That's a fair chunk of hourly capacity gone.

I would disagree about story.

Whether it's a dark ride at the MK or a house at UNI's HHNs, the thing that separates these places from local joints is the movie-making MAGIC that gets poured into creating a sense of place and STORY and CHARACTERS do that.

I don't care whether the typical 21-year-old with an iPhone stuck up his-her nose decides to notice or not, that really isn't the point at all.

UNI is a theme park and HHNs is a Halloween-themed event, and a great one at that. The fact people are dumber by the day doesn't factor into my IQ or ability to enjoy what great designers can do when allowed!