Halloween Horror Nights 28 General Discussion

[Clive]

Wouldnt it be more efficient to make ffp a weekday pass? Giving them Wednesday and thursday only? Leaving the 3 day weekend to single night tickets?

Also, can you explain number 3 a little bit more?
What are scare zone gauntlets?
How did hollywood did it?

I mean originally, Frequent Fear Pass was only for Sunday-Thursday event dates. The program has slowly expanded to include the more inclusive Plus option (Fridays) and now I guess an Ultimate pass that includes all nights. My pitch would be to do away with that and instead structure tickets around the event's primary, most lucrative audience: vacationers. That's the primary difference between the HHN of today and the HHN of the 2000s; before it was a locals event that propped up failing parks, but now it's an additional, powerful muscle of a healthy vacation resort. People travel from out-of-state (and even out-of-country) to attend: it sells hotel rooms.

Universal should be targeting those people more than anyone. They're spending the most. The easiest way to do that is through a "weekend pass," one good for the week's entire slate of event dates. It has an evolving price tag based on what week we're talking about (mid to late October is going to cost more than the second weekend of September). You can still have a Frequent Fear Pass for locals, but price it more aggressively and return to Sunday-Thursday. If we must have a Plus or Ultimate pass, double the price. Rush of Fear can stay (though should also see price increases), as it's basically the proof of concept for the weekend passes and helps prop up week 2 and 3.

Basically, in Hollywood, a third of the event is relegated off of daytime park real estate - it's located in the literal Metro Sets of the backlot. Guests travel "out of park" near Transformers through a Tunnel (where an infamously lackluster scare zone exists) and then through what's referred to as either "Scare Zone 3" or "The Gauntlet;" it's a one-way zone packed with actors and scenic, with some even comparing it to a full maze/house in terms of quality. This year, it's Holidayz in Hell; last year, it was Urban Inferno. Both had the highest guest satisfaction scores of any haunt attraction in their respective years.

Once through those zones, guests enter a large section of the Metro Sets that has been retrofitted exclusively for Horror Nights use. Contained here are the entrances, queues, and real estate for three mazes, a food truck court, restrooms, mobile gift shop carts, and midway games. When guests are ready to leave, they depart the way they came and once again pass through the Tunnel.

My pitch would be to adapt the concept to the plot behind Men in Black/near Kid Zone, with entrances to both Sprung Tents and Parade Buildings contained within. Have guests enter via KidZone and/or Men in Black and travel through a scare zone before hitting an assembled hub with the aforementioned entrances. This way, experiencing those mazes is more efficient - you exit back into the hub and can queue up for one of the other three available without having to do that GIANT lap each time you experience a back-of-park maze.

 

[n i c k]

I mean originally, Frequent Fear Pass was only for Sunday-Thursday event dates. The program has slowly expanded to include the more inclusive Plus option (Fridays) and now I guess an Ultimate pass that includes all nights. My pitch would be to do away with that and instead structure tickets around the event's primary, most lucrative audience: vacationers. That's the primary difference between the HHN of today and the HHN of the 2000s; before it was a locals event that propped up failing parks, but now it's an additional, powerful muscle of a healthy vacation resort. People travel from out-of-state (and even out-of-country) to attend: it sells hotel rooms.

Universal should be targeting those people more than anyone. They're spending the most. The easiest way to do that is through a "weekend pass," one good for the week's entire slate of event dates. It has an evolving price tag based on what week we're talking about (mid to late October is going to cost more than the second weekend of September). You can still have a Frequent Fear Pass for locals, but price it more aggressively and return to Sunday-Thursday. If we must have a Plus or Ultimate pass, double the price. Rush of Fear can stay (though should also see price increases), as it's basically the proof of concept for the weekend passes and helps prop up week 2 and 3.

Basically, in Hollywood, a third of the event is relegated off of daytime park real estate - it's located in the literal Metro Sets of the backlot. Guests travel "out of park" near Transformers through a Tunnel (where an infamously lackluster scare zone exists) and then through what's referred to as either "Scare Zone 3" or "The Gauntlet;" it's a one-way zone packed with actors and scenic, with some even comparing it to a full maze/house in terms of quality. This year, it's Holidayz in Hell; last year, it was Urban Inferno. Both had the highest guest satisfaction scores of any haunt attraction in their respective years.

Once through those zones, guests enter a large section of the Metro Sets that has been retrofitted exclusively for Horror Nights use. Contained here are the entrances, queues, and real estate for three mazes, a food truck court, restrooms, mobile gift shop carts, and midway games. When guests are ready to leave, they depart the way they came and once again pass through the Tunnel.

My pitch would be to adapt the concept to the plot behind Men in Black/near Kid Zone, with entrances to both Sprung Tents and Parade Buildings contained within. Have guests enter via KidZone and/or Men in Black and travel through a scare zone before hitting an assembled hub with the aforementioned entrances. This way, experiencing those mazes is more efficient - you exit back into the hub and can queue up for one of the other three available without having to do that GIANT lap each time you experience a back-of-park maze.

My guess would be we get something like that while using parts of USF and IOA.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I've long advocated for a dramatic restructuring of the Frequent Fear Pass with a shift to "weekend passes" and a "September Pass" (something Hollywood tried this year), but clearly Universal's internal data supports keeping the program more or less as-is with incremental price increases each year. Fair enough.

To deal with the dramatically swelling crowds, I'd guess a few things need to happen.

1) New killer show. Academy of Villains is good, but it doesn't have the pull Bill & Ted did - which has a severe impact on event circulation. Academy of Villains should ideally stay in some form, though shifting back to the Mel's temp stage trades one crowding problem for another. One wonders if a modified Animal Actors stage would suffice without affecting daytime ops. Either way, we need something buzzier in the FFL venue (so long as it survives) - there were whispers of a Beetlejuice-headlined show this year, which might move the needle in the right direction.

2) Increase prices. Alluded to this earlier, but we need higher prices across the board. Yes, some people will be priced out, but that's capitalism.

3) Rethought street program/walking distances. Scare zones just can't operate the way they used to, and Universal has been too slow to react. This year has a good start: the "stages" help create meaningful, Instagram-ready "moments" that direct traffic instead of disappearing into crowds. More "stages" and mini-shows should likely be the future of the streets in high-traffic areas, and some areas (i.e. Plaza of the Stars) should be abandoned altogether. Smatterings of scare-heavy actors should be tossed in here and there (i.e. chainsaws in San Francisco, Springfield), but I do wonder if there's any room for one-way scare zone gauntlets that have become more popular/well-received in Hollywood. The walks to the tents/parade buildings are pretty unbearable, so why not develop a portable zone that leads to a "hub" of sorts where entrances are actually located? Think the Metro Sets in Hollywood for a model here. Portable rest rooms and food trucks can augment the space/provide infrastructure. It isn't exactly glamorous, but it adds more park real estate and makes experiencing mazes far more efficient.

4) Possibly an additional maze. I have no idea where they're gonna stick ten mazes next year if some of these rumors come to fruition, but clearly ten isn't quite enough - the trouble is an eleventh maze will come with a commiserate increase in attendance cap, potentially rendering the additional capacity moot. It also needs to be something desirable... no one's helped by Blumhouse of Horrors having 30 minute waits when Stranger Things and Poltergeist are 2+ hours. The "throwaway" mazes nobody cares about actively hurt circulation, especially if they're located off the beaten path.

5) Open more rides. Simpsons needs to be open, but Fallon probably does, too. Not a whole lot else they can operate that'll serve HHN's clientele (Minions is kind of pointless), but the park needs more crowd absorbers. Keeping Hogsmeade open late at night (after a typical Islands close/park sweep), accessible only via Hogwarts Express (say, from 8pm to midnight) could potentially help, but that's an unwieldy proposition that may not attract all that many people (and it may prove taxing on Forbidden Journey's demanding maintenance schedule). It could also intrude on Stay & Scream tickets, which will be especially valuable with the opening of the new Potter coaster.

I think this is a great start and something I want to cover in an article I'm writing for Parkscope. And I think you're on to a few things already.... *cough*

Anyway, I'm deep in writing this week (hopefully we'll do a review podcast this week) but I want to post this preview of my review and it's focus from one of my favorite shows...

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I mean originally, Frequent Fear Pass was only for Sunday-Thursday event dates. The program has slowly expanded to include the more inclusive Plus option (Fridays) and now I guess an Ultimate pass that includes all nights. My pitch would be to do away with that and instead structure tickets around the event's primary, most lucrative audience: vacationers. That's the primary difference between the HHN of today and the HHN of the 2000s; before it was a locals event that propped up failing parks, but now it's an additional, powerful muscle of a healthy vacation resort. People travel from out-of-state (and even out-of-country) to attend: it sells hotel rooms.

Universal should be targeting those people more than anyone. They're spending the most. The easiest way to do that is through a "weekend pass," one good for the week's entire slate of event dates. It has an evolving price tag based on what week we're talking about (mid to late October is going to cost more than the second weekend of September). You can still have a Frequent Fear Pass for locals, but price it more aggressively and return to Sunday-Thursday. If we must have a Plus or Ultimate pass, double the price. Rush of Fear can stay (though should also see price increases), as it's basically the proof of concept for the weekend passes and helps prop up week 2 and 3.

Basically, in Hollywood, a third of the event is relegated off of daytime park real estate - it's located in the literal Metro Sets of the backlot. Guests travel "out of park" near Transformers through a Tunnel (where an infamously lackluster scare zone exists) and then through what's referred to as either "Scare Zone 3" or "The Gauntlet;" it's a one-way zone packed with actors and scenic, with some even comparing it to a full maze/house in terms of quality. This year, it's Holidayz in Hell; last year, it was Urban Inferno. Both had the highest guest satisfaction scores of any haunt attraction in their respective years.

Once through those zones, guests enter a large section of the Metro Sets that has been retrofitted exclusively for Horror Nights use. Contained here are the entrances, queues, and real estate for three mazes, a food truck court, restrooms, mobile gift shop carts, and midway games. When guests are ready to leave, they depart the way they came and once again pass through the Tunnel.

My pitch would be to adapt the concept to the plot behind Men in Black/near Kid Zone, with entrances to both Sprung Tents and Parade Buildings contained within. Have guests enter via KidZone and/or Men in Black and travel through a scare zone before hitting an assembled hub with the aforementioned entrances. This way, experiencing those mazes is more efficient - you exit back into the hub and can queue up for one of the other three available without having to do that GIANT lap each time you experience a back-of-park maze.

Always thought that they should add a large and elaborate zone back in the MIB plot that leads to the 4 mazes back there.

 

[WAJAS]

I think an expansion into IOS, if even minor, is more likely than an expansion into the MIB plot. IOA is already themed and doesn’t require as much additional infrastructure as it’s all already there.

Only expand to Lost Continent and Seuss. The two park ‘bridges’ enter IOA at the Grinchmas gate and the Lost Continent gate opposite the bridge to JP. Wandering hoardes are in IOA proper with the only additional scarezones being those in the park ‘bridges’. A show in Sinbad and a Maze either in Poseidon or in 1st floor Doscovery Center with its queue and entrance on/at the bridge.

The only parts of IOA that close early are the Discovery Center (which already does close early) Lost Continent, and a portions of Seuss (which isn’t completely necessary if one park ‘bridge’ can handle all the crowds.

 

[MagicMagicMagic]

You can still have a Frequent Fear Pass for locals, but price it more aggressively and return to Sunday-Thursday. If we must have a Plus or Ultimate pass, double the price. Rush of Fear can stay (though should also see price increases), as it's basically the proof of concept for the weekend passes and helps prop up week 2 and 3.

They'd be better off discontinuing the Plus and Ultimate passes rather than doubling their price, especially when it comes to the ones that include express. No one is going to buy a $900 or $1200 pass, the value just isn't there, and Universal would look silly trying to sell something that expensive for a 30ish night event. The $600 pass is already pushing the limits of sanity.

 

[JoeCamel]

They'd be better off discontinuing the Plus and Ultimate passes rather than doubling their price, especially when it comes to the ones that include express. No one is going to buy a $900 or $1200 pass, the value just isn't there, and Universal would look silly trying to sell something that expensive for a 30ish night event. The $600 pass is already pushing the limits of sanity.

I know many people that would pay more to attend every night or at least have the option to and they won't go without express either. It ain't 2001 any more......

 

[MagicMagicMagic]

That's crazy to me. I can't fathom paying more than the already inflated $600 price. Sure, the pass gets you admission and express EVERY night, but it doesn't offer any other benefits at all, like free parking. For that you'd also need to drop another $400. But at least that $400 gets you unlimited admission to two theme parks for at least a year, plus the free parking and discounts.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I don't think there's that big of a capacity problem with HHN. Add a 2nd show wherever and open up Simpsons and Fallon. The problem is that everyone attending the event is visiting Stranger and Poltergeist so those mazes probably see double the attendance compared to something like Scary Tales. I think instead of expanding the maze count the "headliner maze" should receive 2 copies.

 

[angusrocks2001]

I have a question regarding express. Is it always 50% off after 10 P.M., or does it depend on how many express passes are sold? If express sells out, what are the chances of me getting 50% off express on a Friday night?

 

[MartyMcFly]

If they got rid of FFP I’d have to spend even more to go as many times as I want when I fly from the UK. I go between 10-14 days, and depending on when I come I get 5-8 nights of HHN.

I spend about £3k+ just on universal property including hotel, tickets, food etc. They should be licking my ball sack and all the other foreign guests who spend thousands in less than 2 weeks.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I don't think there's that big of a capacity problem with HHN. Add a 2nd show wherever and open up Simpsons and Fallon. The problem is that everyone attending the event is visiting Stranger and Poltergeist so those mazes probably see double the attendance compared to something like Scary Tales. I think instead of expanding the maze count the "headliner maze" should receive 2 copies.

I’ve been doing some research, HHN28 has the fewest amount of non haunt options ever at one show and five attractions. Add one more show, open Minions, and open Simpsons will help a lot. Also open up Leaky and run the Diagon diversions (Olivanders and shows).

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I’ve been doing some research, HHN28 has the fewest amount of non haunt options ever at one show and five attractions. Add one more show, open Minions, and open Simpsons will help a lot. Also open up Leaky and run the Diagon diversions (Olivanders and shows).

Yeah, theres need to be something else that isn't horror. The big appeal of B&T was that it was "friendly" and just a break from the scares (both horror and thrill). I get that people come to the park for the horror, but everyone needs something "fun" to do. HHN should always have a parody/comedy show. AoV is better at a pop-up temporary stage.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Yeah, theres need to be something else that isn't horror. The big appeal of B&T was that it was "friendly" and just a break from the scares (both horror and thrill). I get that people come to the park for the horror, but everyone needs something "fun" to do. HHN should always have a parody/comedy show. AoV is better at a pop-up temporary stage.

it is pretty funny to see guys posts on fb about missing the "sexy dancing" something so random and such a small part of HHN, but theres been a few people that were mourning the ending to the dancing at hhn

 

[DannyPowers]

it is pretty funny to see guys posts on fb about missing the "sexy dancing" something so random and such a small part of HHN, but theres been a few people that were mourning the ending to the dancing at hhn

I'd be a liar if I said that didn't occur to me while walking around this year.

 

[ReelJustice]

If they got rid of FFP I’d have to spend even more to go as many times as I want when I fly from the UK. I go between 10-14 days, and depending on when I come I get 5-8 nights of HHN.

I spend about £3k+ just on universal property including hotel, tickets, food etc. They should be licking my ball sack and all the other foreign guests who spend thousands in less than 2 weeks.

Amen baw.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

it is pretty funny to see guys posts on fb about missing the "sexy dancing" something so random and such a small part of HHN, but theres been a few people that were mourning the ending to the dancing at hhn

It’s because they’re creeps.

 

[Lucky Planet]

I'd be a liar if I said that didn't occur to me while walking around this year.

Amen baw.

It’s because they’re creeps.

..... awkward..... :bolt:


Although....
Is Universal run by creeps too? since they are putting the show on? and they are showing thousands of people in the audience half naked girls doing sexy dancing? showing this to men of all ages? (since kids watch the show too)

Because the men missing the show could be called creeps, but what about the people Creating the show? or the people choreographing the show? or the costume designers that picked the raunchiest of costumes?

how far does the creep ladder go? who signs off on the show? and last year we had girls in corsets pole dancing in the scarezone,which was pretty edgy.
because at least in bill and ted you have to enter the stage and wait for it, but the scarezone girls dancing were visible to the entire crowd. this is like creep Inception lol

:?:

 

[Parkscope Joe]

..... awkward..... :bolt:


Although....
Is Universal run by creeps too? since they are putting the show on? and they are showing thousands of people in the audience half naked girls doing sexy dancing? showing this to men of all ages? (since kids watch the show too)

Because the men missing the show could be called creeps, but what about the people Creating the show? or the people choreographing the show? or the costume designers that picked the raunchiest of costumes?

how far does the creep ladder go? who signs off on the show? and last year we had girls in corsets pole dancing in the scarezone,
because at least in bill and ted you have to enter the stage and wait for it, but the scarezone girls dancing were visible to the entire crowd.

:?:

You’re over thinking it. The dancing was one part of a show. The dudes who miss that specific dancing can go to the current employers of many of those dancers, but instead want to see it in a theme park. I mean there’s a difference between “I miss Bill and Ted” and mean all the aspects of the show vs “I miss the sexy dancing” and make it sound creepy.

 

[DannyPowers]

Ya'll are saying that the dudes are creepy for missing some sexy dancing mixed in with our horror goodness. But, lest we not forget that the show featured scantily clad men as well.

Don't get it twisted. Everyone loves some scantily clad dancing by the gender that they're attracted to.