Halloween Horror Nights 32 (UOR) - News & Info

[Brian G.]

Not at all - what do you think my point was? I tried to be VERY clear to avoid this exact conversation. I am NOT arguing that HHN should expand to IOA or that IOA always closes at 6. My point was that a lot of the things posters here label “impossible,” dismissing any related conversation, are, in fact, quite possible if Universal chooses to make them so. Universal has a lot of options beyond price gouging to deal with HHN’s issues IF THEY WANT TO.

It’s “possible” in the middle of the first week of October because there is no demand and other factors. But Labor Day, Columbus Day, Fall Breaks… all timeframes that occur within the HHN season, would not be able to close later anymore.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s “possible” in the middle of the first week of October because there is no demand and other factors. But Labor Day, Columbus Day, Fall Breaks… all timeframes that occur within the HHN season, would not be able to close later anymore.

I absolutely agree that IOA SHOULDN’T close early on nights when the Studios closes early, whether IOA is closing for a private event or HHN. It shouldn’t do it because it short changes day guests.

But conversations here about what should change about HHN always seem to follow a pattern - every suggestion is authoritatively shot down and dismissed as “impossible” until we wind up with only one topic - how much prices need to be increased and what tickets need to be eliminated to keep out the pesky excess guests. The burden is thus always placed on the guests, not Comcast. In truth, Universal has an infinite range of options to alter and potentially improve HHN if they WANT to do so. Some, like closing IOA early, may be bad solutions, but as today and tomorrow demonstrate, they’re possible. The issue right now is that Universal doesn’t see HHN crowding as a problem that needs a solution.

(I’m also not sure about the “no demand” thing this week - single night HHN tickets tonite and tomorrow are significantly more expensive then any other Wednesday or Thursday in the event, so Universal seems to be anticipating crowds for whatever reason).

 

[Allison]

But conversations here about what should change about HHN always seem to follow a pattern - every suggestion is authoritatively shot down and dismissed as “impossible” until we wind up with only one topic - how much prices need to be increased and what tickets need to be eliminated to keep out the pesky excess guests.

Maybe cause there are people here that might understand these things better than others that may suggest more creative options as easier fixes?

 

[Lucky Planet]

Went 3 nights and still haven’t seen this years only show. Will probably watch it on my second trip just to check that box.

With the slow exit, it's a 75 to 90-minute commitment for a decent seat. Which is way too long if you have a single night, and feels like a slog if you're used to zipping through 3 houses with Express in that amount of time. Best show in that venue not named "Bill & Teds," but I've only seen it once in 8 nights for that reason. (And even then it was because a friend backdoored me in.)



RHPS, arguably the most popular of the secondary shows, used the second-tier BJ seating maybe two nights that I saw. Nowhere near capacity. The magic shows are always sparse, largely because it's the same 25-minute set five times a night. Brian Brushwood changed it up and did TWO different shows, but with a repeat crowd, even that wasn't enough.



You make excellent points about capacity, as usual, and I don't think your point about non-IP houses is wrong. The normals are there for IPs, once they're tired don't really care about the originals. But I think the flaw in your thinking is that plenty of the lifestyler guests would rather hang in the streets than see a lame show.

I also don't buy the lighting in a bottle theory, big as this year's IPs are. HHN is having a moment, being embraced by the locals and regular out-of-towners Disney went out of its way to reject. Only two things will effectively cut the crowd:

• higher prices (tho maybe not as high as I've argued if the $90 difference between RoF and FF really made a difference)
• the Mouse finally following through with a Nightmare Before Christmas/Villain event in DHS.

Not to my recollection either, but feeling old today so I did a deep dive. No mention on the HHN wiki. IU doesn't go back that far, but no mention in the WDWMagic HHN 17 discussion thread, no mention from October 2017 on the DisBoards. Express sold out opening weekend -- and the #1 complaint was still the crowds -- but no mention of a FFP sell-out.

To get a good chair for nightmare show you gotta wait like 1 hour in advance.
There was a couple of times when I arrived 20 to 15 minutes before the show started and was turned away already.
It really is a 90 minute or more commitment to see the show. It's a 60 minute wait to get a good seat, plus the show time, plus the slow exit.
It's almost like a 2 hour thing.

I always fall multiple pages behind this so I can't even bother finding all the proper posts to quote, but anyway..

HHN to its credit creates a totally unique event year after year. New houses, shows, zones, foods, drinks, tribute stores, etc. This is great for drawing in return customers (and by no means am I advocating for them to stop doing this), but it also creates such a limited supply (40ish dates) that those who can attend want to maximize their value. Locals will want to come all the time because when that house is done on 11/4, it ain't coming back. MNSSHP is not exactly like that. The event is by and large the same each year, and those same characters will be there to meet guests next year.

Then you have the variance in actual attraction enjoyment. We all know that one run through a house can be misleading. The beauty of HHN is that you can have multiple runs to get a true feel for the house. Even if you missed the scares round one, the rest may be bangers. The more you go through, the more accurate of a representation you'll have of the house. Again, MNSSHP is by and large the same. Many characters can't talk, and meet and greets are a very 1-on-1 interaction where you're getting the entertainer's full attention, so they're gonna give you a pretty accurate picture on round 1. You don't need to hop back in the meet and greet line a second, third, or fourth time to get the vibe of Scrooge McDuck.

Yeah, they have some similarities operationally, but comparing them one to one doesn't give the best picture. HHN can't operate as a strictly "one-night ticket" event. That would really tank GSAT scores.

It's gonna sound dumb, but maybe one way for universal to ease the crowds it's to repeat houses like they did for American werewolf in London.
I mean, imagine if the last of us wasn't demolished and just came back again. Is that what Hollywood does?
Or if we had THE WEEKEND returned exactly the same.
I mean, universal already did it and Hollywood does it already.
Plus it would help to relocate budget

 

[Brian G.]

(I’m also not sure about the “no demand” thing this week - single night HHN tickets tonite and tomorrow are significantly more expensive then any other Wednesday or Thursday in the event, so Universal seems to be anticipating crowds for whatever reason).

C'mon, we can't be this myopic... Of course, HHN tickets are more expensive - because that's the main draw during Halloween season.

But conversations here about what should change about HHN always seem to follow a pattern - every suggestion is authoritatively shot down and dismissed as “impossible” until we wind up with only one topic - how much prices need to be increased and what tickets need to be eliminated to keep out the pesky excess guests. The burden is thus always placed on the guests, not Comcast. In truth, Universal has an infinite range of options to alter and potentially improve HHN if they WANT to do so.

IDK - all I've seen is a fair debate for multiple options. I don't get this either...

The only thing I've seen rightfully shot down is the show, not because no one wants it - but because it's not a solution. Back in 2019, we were having the same discussion because of how dominant Stranger Things was and that year featured 2 shows and less to do around the Resort (and that was less busy than it is now.)

Some, like closing IOA early, may be bad solutions, but as today and tomorrow demonstrate, they’re possible. The issue right now is that Universal doesn’t see HHN crowding as a problem that needs a solution.

I mean, yeah - you're using the exception. It's like saying the crappy football team beat the champs and that makes them Super Bowl favorites... The only nights that close at 6 are tonight and tomorrow. A majority of October closes at 8pm. You used the 2 dates out of 60 days to say "THEY CAN". Like c'mon now.

As of right now, the only thing that's somewhat quantifiable is that it was busy when ROF was an active pass, with the last Sunday of the pass being one of the busiest of the season - and now the crowds seem somewhat reasonable. To me, that seems like a reasonable starting point.

 

[Legacy]

As of right now, the only thing that's somewhat quantifiable is that it was busy when ROF was an active pass, with the last Sunday of the pass being one of the busiest of the season - and now the crowds seem somewhat reasonable. To me, that seems like a reasonable starting point.

And if that IS the starting point, then is simple to infer that ROF passes, as a secondary pass in addition to instead of in lieu of, are the “issue.” If so, then the fix is either do away with ROF, replace FFP in Sept with ROF, or drastically increase prices to price out ROF (and other pass).

People aren’t shooting down other ideas. It’s just other ideas have significant requirements or impacts that could cause more harm than good.

 

[Lucky Planet]

So yeah, even the midnight parking is way more smooth since ROF ended. Just another little thing I noticed. Not as crazy.
First weeks of September was near dangerous on a couple of nights with people rushing to get in.

But not now...much lighter.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

They extended the physical queue over by the Diagon/FFL gate last night for Nightmare Fuel. Queue wrapped back to Diagon blocking the exit... with the preload area already filled in. It was pretty chaotic with people not knowing where the line ended (no TM to tell you) with a TM shouting far away by the HNF sign you might not get in... this issue needs to be addressed. You can't let people get in line only to find out you are not getting in.

HHN always seems to underprice itself (whether it's strategic idk), but next year they need to seriously address overcrowding. Either limit attendance by actually capping attendance with reservations/ridiculous price hikes... or attempt to increase capacity.

Also, as overcrowded as HHN gets, not at the level to use IOA. The only thing I wish USF had was a Velocicoaster-style coaster so increase attraction capacity as coasters do draw guests during HHN. There are still dead spots throughout the park, they just need to figure out how to use them better.

 

[Speed]

The park does seem to have a lot of dead spots this year with production central, Springfield and the lagoon all sitting empty, doesn't help that the Minion Cafe produces enough light to replicate the sun which throws me off every time I walk by.

Realistically, what shows do they add? Sure they could fill theaters but Animal Actors can't fit anything that the HHN crowd would find interesting, HMU could host a BTS style show but that would still be small scale. Nightmare Fuel already checks off fire, dancing, and magic. Would a singing/dancing show fill seats?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

The park does seem to have a lot of dead spots this year with production central, Springfield and the lagoon all sitting empty, doesn't help that the Minion Cafe produces enough light to replicate the sun which throws me off every time I walk by.

Realistically, what shows do they add? Sure they could fill theaters but Animal Actors can't fit anything that the HHN crowd would find interesting, HMU could host a BTS style show but that would still be small scale. Nightmare Fuel already checks off fire, dancing, and magic. Would a singing/dancing show fill seats?

A stunt show could work, Purge seems to be a hit at Hollywood, Orlando should give it a try.

But yes, there are areas of the park currently underutilized during HHN, while they put food booths (like Chucky) in the worst possible location.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

I think at some point, the ticket options are going to have to shift dramatically. The different types of ticket holders are at odds with one another -

ROF holders buy ROF because they "don't want to deal with all the people in October." FFP holders can't wait for ROF to expire so those people are no longer in the park.

My proposal would really be something like this: sell HHN tickets as you would day tickets.

1-day, 2-day, 3-day, etc. Then you have annual passes, aka FFP. These could be done as date specific (say, for tourists) or for a small price bump, any day (for locals).

 

[GA-MBIT]

Let's see how tonight's crowds are. Hopefully Sunday wasn't just a fluke and we see similar, lesser crowds now that RoF is done and October is started.

 

[Lucky Planet]

Let's see how tonight's crowds are. Hopefully Sunday wasn't just a fluke and we see similar, lesser crowds now that RoF is done and October is started.

Yeah. Tonight was a super super light night,
Very good lines, short lines, very easy parking at midnight.
Yesterday and today were super super easy going, very light, easy nights.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Yeah. Tonight was a super super light night,
Very good lines, short lines, very easy parking at midnight.
Yesterday and today were super super easy going, very light, easy nights.

The Calm Before the Storm

Last night wasn't as busy, but it felt like a Friday from years ago

 

[SeventyOne]

The Calm Before the Storm

Last night wasn't as busy, but it felt like a Friday from years ago

Just based on WDW and I-4 traffic the past few days, I'd bet money much of the South is on Fall Break. Also Columbus Day, still a thing up north, is Monday. It's going to be a busy weekend.

 

[sparky]

I think at some point, the ticket options are going to have to shift dramatically. The different types of ticket holders are at odds with one another -

ROF holders buy ROF because they "don't want to deal with all the people in October." FFP holders can't wait for ROF to expire so those people are no longer in the park.

My proposal would really be something like this: sell HHN tickets as you would day tickets.

1-day, 2-day, 3-day, etc. Then you have annual passes, aka FFP. These could be done as date specific (say, for tourists) or for a small price bump, any day (for locals).

I do rush of fear+express because we come from out of state for a 4-5 day visit. Rush+ is a better deal price wise than daily with express. I just can not do the switchbacks of doom. All those people around and around is just nightmare material for me.
I think they need to look at using the info they got from having people pick a start date for their rush or ff tickets.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

I do rush of fear+express because we come from out of state for a 4-5 day visit. Rush+ is a better deal price wise than daily with express. I just can not do the switchbacks of doom. All those people around and around is just nightmare material for me.
I think they need to look at using the info they got from having people pick a start date for their rush or ff tickets.

Oh I'm right there with you, we did ROF+Express this year and it was great

 

[HandsomePete]

Purge seems to be a hit at Hollywood, Orlando should give it a try.

The fastest way to clear out the crowds would be to hold an actual Purge.

It does seem awfully apparent that the popularity of ROF has been the issue. Would be interesting to know how the mix of ROF versus FF(+) has shifted over time. There’s a $50 difference between ROF and FF now… it was $11 in 2017. $90 between ROF and FFP now… $27 in 2017. Maybe that’s enough to have actually moved people from one to another.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Let's see how tonight's crowds are. Hopefully Sunday wasn't just a fluke and we see similar, lesser crowds now that RoF is done and October is started.

Then the question is if the price difference between RoF and FFP successfully spread out crowds so that Septembers are busier than the past, but Octobers (particularly Hell Weekends) are slower than the past to the point that crowd levels are more or less consistent across the entirety of the event…and if they did, should that be considered a win for the guest experience?

 

[Frank Drackman]

The fastest way to clear out the crowds would be to hold an actual Purge.

It does seem awfully apparent that the popularity of ROF has been the issue. Would be interesting to know how the mix of ROF versus FF(+) has shifted over time. There’s a $50 difference between ROF and FF now… it was $11 in 2017. $90 between ROF and FFP now… $27 in 2017. Maybe that’s enough to have actually moved people from one to another.

When we lived a couple hundred miles away, planning to attend during RoF was strategic for it included FRI and SAT. Back then, they did not have WEDs in Sept so we could go for four days, Thur - Sun and it was a little cheaper than two one day tickets (from memory so not 100% sure on price) -- I imaging FF+Fri could allow four days (with Sat off) during a similar stay -- but RoF has the distinction of including Fri and SAT w/o any more add ons.

I sort of feel 'good for UNI' for building the Sept crowds as I imagine that was one of their goals (or it should have been).

FWIW, reaching back to some comments around IoA, the 6 PM close was due to a park buyout, so IoA was still not available on those nights.

I still think one way to better (general public) guest SAT would be changes to the add ons like not giving Express for the full length of a pass (yes, I do not tend to use Express so it is easy for me to say)-- even though the price keeps rising, it seems like it is the biggest bargain of the event. I mean, days in OCT where Express is not sold out go for some $240 to $260 per night on some prime nights.

I think the best change to RoF would be to block it from opening weekend.

Something I find odd is that all these fan type locals seem to hate the Chucky House, yet it keeps up w/ Stranger Things and TLOU with the highest wait times -- figured it would be one and done with the hate it gets, but maybe (even in Sept) there is still a good mix of day guest.