- Feb 2, 2020
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Went 3 nights and still haven’t seen this years only show. Will probably watch it on my second trip just to check that box.
Halloween Horror Nights 32 (UOR) - News & Info
- Thread starter Brian G.
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I avoided comparing MNSSHP since that's a completely different type of experience/event. A good chunk of people are there for the parades and firework shows (high-capacity) with not as much demand for M&Gs (they can only handle a few hundred guests or so an hour).
M&G's and PoTC are at different ends of the capacity spectrum. A M&G can barely handle 100 guests an hour... Pirates is a people eater at 2.5K+ guests an hour. I can guarantee the number of people in line for the Jack M&G would only be about a 10-minute wait at Pirates.
The IP houses will always have 2-hour waits, no issue about that, but what about everyone else who doesn't want to wait 120 minutes? Where else do they go if they want to do HHN-specific attractions and kind of just want to sit down for a bit to watch a show? If Universal knows people are going to end up waiting in ST anyway... could they at least provide entertainment in the queue?
If Nightmare Fuel wasn't filling to capacity 15-20 minutes prior to every showtime, a new show wouldn't be needed.
First of all, I doubt a show increases attendance 25% YoY lol. But, let's say you do go from 20K to 25K a night...
While I'm not a master at data, nor do I have actual data from Universal, I'm pretty confident in my wait-time model below:
At 20K guests, with the current HHN lineup, house wait-times average 50.5 (reduced to 41.0 with a show at Bourne & AA)
At 25K guests, with the current HHN lineup, house wait-times average 66.5 (reduced to 57.0 with a show at Bourne & AA)
Not to mention you move people throughout the park a bit better and take them away from the overcrowded hubs of HNF & NY.
Let's be honest... some of the previous HHN shows we're not that great lol. But word got around the HNF is a solid show... so if they're able to deliver on another solid show, that's more utilized capacity.
Sure, I don't know what goes backstage, but I really think not being able to use a theater due to a daytime show is just a poor excuse. They have a smart creative team that I'm sure has plentiful ideas, they just need approval and a different mindset when it comes to the event.
I don't think an extra house will work from a demand perspective. No doubt it'll eat up people, but even on busy days Blood Moon, Darkest Deal and Monsters have moments where they drop to 20-30 (actual, not posted) minute waits... showing that there's demand for something else.
Will say, I know it was rumored months back and I didn't think the demand was there yet, but this year might convince them to run the event all nights of October, or a few Monday/Tuesday nights (if staffing allows). Assuming it's not lightning in a bottle with the IP lineup.
With the slow exit, it's a 75 to 90-minute commitment for a decent seat. Which is way too long if you have a single night, and feels like a slog if you're used to zipping through 3 houses with Express in that amount of time. Best show in that venue not named "Bill & Teds," but I've only seen it once in 8 nights for that reason. (And even then it was because a friend backdoored me in.)
RHPS, arguably the most popular of the secondary shows, used the second-tier BJ seating maybe two nights that I saw. Nowhere near capacity. The magic shows are always sparse, largely because it's the same 25-minute set five times a night. Brian Brushwood changed it up and did TWO different shows, but with a repeat crowd, even that wasn't enough.
You make excellent points about capacity, as usual, and I don't think your point about non-IP houses is wrong. The normals are there for IPs, once they're tired don't really care about the originals. But I think the flaw in your thinking is that plenty of the lifestyler guests would rather hang in the streets than see a lame show.
I also don't buy the lighting in a bottle theory, big as this year's IPs are. HHN is having a moment, being embraced by the locals and regular out-of-towners Disney went out of its way to reject. Only two things will effectively cut the crowd:
- higher prices (tho maybe not as high as I've argued if the $90 difference between RoF and FF really made a difference)
- the Mouse finally following through with a Nightmare Before Christmas/Villain event in DHS.
Not to my recollection either, but feeling old today so I did a deep dive. No mention on the HHN wiki. IU doesn't go back that far, but no mention in the WDWMagic HHN 17 discussion thread, no mention from October 2017 on the DisBoards. Express sold out opening weekend -- and the #1 complaint was still the crowds -- but no mention of a FFP sell-out.
As much as people (myself included) like to hate on the vloggers/lifestylers/influencers, outside of opening weekend they haven't made a significant dent in the park.
HHN is definitely more popular each year, but this year has 3 popular IPs (2 of which are at the top of pop culture at the moment). The next 4 weekends will be very interesting to see how the event crowds flow.
Definitely agree that prices would curb away some guests, but it could also drive locals to visit more often to get more out of their dollar?
One thing I can say hollywood has going for them is the terror tram. It pulls people AWAY from the line and the houses for a good amount of time. Plus the purge show did pull in the crowds when I saw it. Orlando needs people eaters that aren't the house.
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- Aug 5, 2018
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FWIW I’m fairly certain this would increase HHN attendance due to bringing in more people from out of town who would be likely to spend one night at HHN; Orlando suddenly becomes MORE of a Halloween destination.
Price adjustments and limiting tickets are the only thing they can do with their current infrastructure. People have been complaining about bathrooms and parking, neither of which are fixed by adding a new show.
I am interested in seeing what changes with EU opening, I’m wondering if that will make things better or worse? It probably depends on staffing and wages more than anything.
Quick bathroom talk (lol) - if they weren't dumping 3 houses right into one that's pretty small, it wouldn't be much of an issue lol
Pro-tip: the bathroom at Mel's/Transformers is the GOAT
Parking to a degree has been fixed (last year was just awful)
We'll see what happens with Epic, but the resort's F&B is still pretty understaffed with slow/inefficient service. Can't imagine they're ready to staff additional restaurants for Epic.
- Sep 9, 2019
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Buddy is out here giving away the sauce
- Jul 8, 2019
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- Sep 7, 2015
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I always fall multiple pages behind this so I can't even bother finding all the proper posts to quote, but anyway..
HHN to its credit creates a totally unique event year after year. New houses, shows, zones, foods, drinks, tribute stores, etc. This is great for drawing in return customers (and by no means am I advocating for them to stop doing this), but it also creates such a limited supply (40ish dates) that those who can attend want to maximize their value. Locals will want to come all the time because when that house is done on 11/4, it ain't coming back. MNSSHP is not exactly like that. The event is by and large the same each year, and those same characters will be there to meet guests next year.
Then you have the variance in actual attraction enjoyment. We all know that one run through a house can be misleading. The beauty of HHN is that you can have multiple runs to get a true feel for the house. Even if you missed the scares round one, the rest may be bangers. The more you go through, the more accurate of a representation you'll have of the house. Again, MNSSHP is by and large the same. Many characters can't talk, and meet and greets are a very 1-on-1 interaction where you're getting the entertainer's full attention, so they're gonna give you a pretty accurate picture on round 1. You don't need to hop back in the meet and greet line a second, third, or fourth time to get the vibe of Scrooge McDuck.
Yeah, they have some similarities operationally, but comparing them one to one doesn't give the best picture. HHN can't operate as a strictly "one-night ticket" event. That would really tank GSAT scores.
HHN to its credit creates a totally unique event year after year. New houses, shows, zones, foods, drinks, tribute stores, etc. This is great for drawing in return customers (and by no means am I advocating for them to stop doing this), but it also creates such a limited supply (40ish dates) that those who can attend want to maximize their value. Locals will want to come all the time because when that house is done on 11/4, it ain't coming back. MNSSHP is not exactly like that. The event is by and large the same each year, and those same characters will be there to meet guests next year.
Then you have the variance in actual attraction enjoyment. We all know that one run through a house can be misleading. The beauty of HHN is that you can have multiple runs to get a true feel for the house. Even if you missed the scares round one, the rest may be bangers. The more you go through, the more accurate of a representation you'll have of the house. Again, MNSSHP is by and large the same. Many characters can't talk, and meet and greets are a very 1-on-1 interaction where you're getting the entertainer's full attention, so they're gonna give you a pretty accurate picture on round 1. You don't need to hop back in the meet and greet line a second, third, or fourth time to get the vibe of Scrooge McDuck.
Yeah, they have some similarities operationally, but comparing them one to one doesn't give the best picture. HHN can't operate as a strictly "one-night ticket" event. That would really tank GSAT scores.
- Sep 23, 2013
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That's a good point and why rush of fear created such hectic lines. People wanted to visit as much as they could.
So yeah I see your point. Rising prices could just make locals visit much more often and try to find ways to stay much longer in the park.
Well I feel like the lagoon show was kind of our big thing to get people away from houses,
it worked because the lagoon show is so huge and wide from side to side that it took a lot of people away from the street when it was playing.
Lagoon show could even be seen outside the designated show area so it was a really huge way to stop the crowd for a few minutes.
I honestly don't see what universal can do that would be as successful as the terror tram.
I don't see anything that can help.
Unless they build a stage by MEL's like when they did for academy of villains? A standing show where people don't have to sit and wait.
Because the other problem about a show is seating and waiting 40 minutes for it to start.
But, an outdoor stage show could be seen by a lot of people passing by.
There is another secret bathroom that no one ever ever uses by im not telling lol.
- Aug 19, 2016
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That's a good point and why rush of fear created such hectic lines. People wanted to visit as much as they could.
So yeah I see your point. Rising prices could just make locals visit much more often and try to find ways to stay much longer in the park.
Well I feel like the lagoon show was kind of our big thing to get people away from houses,
it worked because the lagoon show is so huge and wide from side to side that it took a lot of people away from the street when it was playing.
Lagoon show could even be seen outside the designated show area so it was a really huge way to stop the crowd for a few minutes.
I honestly don't see what universal can do that would be as successful as the terror tram.
I don't see anything that can help.
Unless they build a stage by MEL's like when they did for academy of villains? A standing show where people don't have to sit and wait.
Because the other problem about a show is seating and waiting 40 minutes for it to start.
But, an outdoor stage show could be seen by a lot of people passing by.
There is another secret bathroom that no one ever ever uses by im not telling lol.
Fast Food Blvd and across from Chez Alcatraz always seem less crowded and hectic than most others on HHN nights
- Apr 30, 2017
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WARNING: Please do NOT misinterpret this post as advocating for the expansion of HHN to IOA.
Tonite and tomorrow IOA closes at 6, an hour after Studios. This is notable because whenever a poster suggests using IOA for HHN, one of the first two responses is that the resort simply CAN’T close it’s only two parks that early - what of the day guests? It’s just IMPOSSIBLE! Well, apparently someone in a management position doesn’t see day guests as the impediment many on these boards believe.
Now, I think expanding HHN to IOA is a bad idea for several reasons, not least of which is that the day guests SHOULD matter. But the point is that a lot of suggestions got dismissed here as laughably “impossible,” until the available options for dealing with the events growing popularity are winnowed down to significantly raising prices or limiting ticket options. Comcast is a huge, tremendously lucrative corporation that fully controls a massive resort full of enormously innovative creatives. If they want to find a solution to the crowding, they can, perhaps in clever ways we haven’t even considered. Based on the last few years, however, it seems fair to say they don’t see this as a problem worth solving. In light of that, it seems rather unfair to advocate that guests be gouged or even excluded - consumers should place the responsibility for solving Comcast’s problems on Comcast.
Tonite and tomorrow IOA closes at 6, an hour after Studios. This is notable because whenever a poster suggests using IOA for HHN, one of the first two responses is that the resort simply CAN’T close it’s only two parks that early - what of the day guests? It’s just IMPOSSIBLE! Well, apparently someone in a management position doesn’t see day guests as the impediment many on these boards believe.
Now, I think expanding HHN to IOA is a bad idea for several reasons, not least of which is that the day guests SHOULD matter. But the point is that a lot of suggestions got dismissed here as laughably “impossible,” until the available options for dealing with the events growing popularity are winnowed down to significantly raising prices or limiting ticket options. Comcast is a huge, tremendously lucrative corporation that fully controls a massive resort full of enormously innovative creatives. If they want to find a solution to the crowding, they can, perhaps in clever ways we haven’t even considered. Based on the last few years, however, it seems fair to say they don’t see this as a problem worth solving. In light of that, it seems rather unfair to advocate that guests be gouged or even excluded - consumers should place the responsibility for solving Comcast’s problems on Comcast.
This is incredibly misleading because there are plenty of 7,8, and 9pm closing hours throughout the month of Oct.
(And Sept followed the same base schedule)
- Apr 30, 2017
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I never implied in any way, shape, or form that it didn’t often close later. My very precise statement, that it is closing at 6 tonite and tomorrow, is true and in no way misleading.
You know very well omitting the entirety of October’s hours paints a different picture and lacks the context needed to hammer down your point.
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Not at all - what do you think my point was? I tried to be VERY clear to avoid this exact conversation. I am NOT arguing that HHN should expand to IOA or that IOA always closes at 6. My point was that a lot of the things posters here label “impossible,” dismissing any related conversation, are, in fact, quite possible if Universal chooses to make them so. Universal has a lot of options beyond price gouging to deal with HHN’s issues IF THEY WANT TO.
I hate talking in absolutes but a 6PM IOA close during HHN has 100% to do with external factors and nothing to do with management's thoughts on day guests.
- Aug 18, 2017
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I've stated how conflicted I feel about the lack of permanence in the event but you're right that it is a massive $ maker for them.
- Apr 30, 2017
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