Halloween Horror Nights 33 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

[TheCodeMan95]

• I like this, assuming tickets are dated
• Any Express is the enemy of reasonable lines, so I support killing it anywhere we can. But not sure this is that big a game-changer in practice. Come October, Express was rarely long anywhere but TLoU. Abuse of GAC probably a bigger issue.
• I'm pretty sure one of your "Saturday"s was supposed to be "Sunday," but I could see this working either way.

Disney did the same for years. Until Galaxy's Edge opened and no massive crowds appeared. What followed was a quiet but concerted effort to downplay lifestylers/APs as Disney park guests.

Again, HHN23 should have been slammed in October, two of the biggest IP gets ever. The normies just never showed up in the numbers they should have, and there weren't as many FF guests to hide that fact. The weekend before Halloween you want it to be slammed, that's the money-making weekend; being slower than September shows they're selling more RoF than single-night tickets. If you visit other unscrupulous sites that republish confidential surveys, it becomes clear this is a concern for Universal.

Like someone else mentioned, I think killing ROF will likely help, but I think most people will shell out the money for FF and then October will be mayhem again.

Of course, I'm curious to see what crowds will be like again without two MASSIVE current IPs in the lineup.

 

[IzzyB]

Disney did the same for years. Until Galaxy's Edge opened and no massive crowds appeared. What followed was a quiet but concerted effort to downplay lifestylers/APs as Disney park guests.

I mean to be fair a major Hurricane hit and people couldn't get to Orlando or cancelled if they were coming in early due to the Hurricane. I know I was stuck in Pittsburgh for days trying to get home and couldn't. When I finally did we went to Disney because I was sick of seeing all my local friends after the Hurricane pass and damage assessments done heading out to enjoy empty parks.

I am pretty sure the attendance would have been MUCH different had that hurricane not shown up. Has any park opened a new major ride in Aug/Sept timeframe again? I would think that would be the lesson learned, open it earlier.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

• I like this, assuming tickets are dated
• Any Express is the enemy of reasonable lines, so I support killing it anywhere we can. But not sure this is that big a game-changer in practice. Come October, Express was rarely long anywhere but TLoU. Abuse of GAC probably a bigger issue.
• I'm pretty sure one of your "Saturday"s was supposed to be "Sunday," but I could see this working either way.

Yeah meant to say Sunday lol

TLOU was an outlier as it was a major IP adjacent to a show that would dump anyone with express to clog everything up.

Like someone else mentioned, I think killing ROF will likely help, but I think most people will shell out the money for FF and then October will be mayhem again.

Of course, I'm curious to see what crowds will be like again without two MASSIVE current IPs in the lineup.

Not necessarily. Economics (especially theme park economics) are difficult to track as they've for years broken basic economic rules. The parks are a rare business where even with increased pricing we see a ridiculous amount of growth.

However, I don't think people who for years bought the less than $189 RoF will automatically purchase a $400+ pass. That's a significant change, and you'll probably see people reduce their visits to just a day, maybe 2 with a ticket package. RoF gave you 18 nights for the price of 1-night at a Disney special event.

I mean to be fair a major Hurricane hit and people couldn't get to Orlando or cancelled if they were coming in early due to the Hurricane. I know I was stuck in Pittsburgh for days trying to get home and couldn't. When I finally did we went to Disney because I was sick of seeing all my local friends after the Hurricane pass and damage assessments done heading out to enjoy empty parks.

I am pretty sure the attendance would have been MUCH different had that hurricane not shown up. Has any park opened a new major ride in Aug/Sept timeframe again? I would think that would be the lesson learned, open it earlier.

I think he was referring to Disneyland's opening. They blocked the majority of APs the entire summer, crowds didn't return to normal until September... when APs showed up.

Also, park guests are just "smarter" now with the amount of research people do nowadays thanks to how complicated the theme parks have become to plan. People watch more videos and read more articles to find "insider" tips like visiting Orlando in September which historically was the quietest month of the year... now it's the busiest lol


With everything said, I still think HHN needs to emphasize increasing capacity (via "attractions" not talking park size) over just simply relying on a new ticketing structure to alleviate demand. When Blood Moon/Darkest Deal was a consistent 15-minute wait throughout the night (even when they would exaggerate posted waits at 45-60), and Nightmare Fuel reached capacity for all 4 shows... something beyond increasing house capacity is needed.

USF is big enough to accommodate the crowds HHN has... they just don't use the entire park efficiently.

 

[Jake S]

Also, park guests are just "smarter" now with the amount of research people do nowadays thanks to how complicated the theme parks have become to plan. People watch more videos and read more articles to find "insider" tips like visiting Orlando in September which historically was the quietest month of the year... now it's the busiest lol

This is something we encounter in my Real Job. The millennial purchaser (this extends into both shoulder generations a bit) does a ton of research before outlaying a large amount of money on something. That doesn't mean that research is always productive, or particularly useful but it does tell us something about the way modern consumers are approaching the parks.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

USF is big enough to accommodate the crowds HHN has... they just don't use the entire park efficiently.

With the assumption that we will have the lagoon show again this year, that should help a bit combined with NF or whatever replaces it. Aside from that, a lot has been discussed on here but I'm not sure what else they can do from there.

I'd like to see them open Bourne and/or Horror Makeup, but I also wonder how many people would spend their time on them during HHN.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

With the assumption that we will have the lagoon show again this year, that should help a bit combined with NF or whatever replaces it. Aside from that, a lot has been discussed on here but I'm not sure what else they can do from there.

I'd like to see them open Bourne and/or Horror Makeup, but I also wonder how many people would spend their time on them during HHN.

Lagoon shows were great, sucks that Ghoulish ran short, but it isnt a major draw. Not at the level of HNF.

USH proved this past year you can take a pre-existing space, overlay it for HHN shows at night, and still run regular daytime WaterWorld shows.

2 massive theaters sit empty during HHN at USF with approximately 2K in seating capacity combined.

 

[Brian G.]

Lagoon shows were great, sucks that Ghoulish ran short, but it isnt a major draw. Not at the level of HNF.

USH proved this past year you can take a pre-existing space, overlay it for HHN shows at night, and still run regular daytime WaterWorld shows.

2 massive theaters sit empty during HHN at USF with approximately 2K in seating capacity combined.

Just because it isn't on the level of HNF doesn't mean it doesn't draw. Adding back the lagoon show would do wonders to spread out capacity.

We can't compare WaterWorld to Bourne. It's already been explained the logistical challenges of doing a Bourne overlay. WaterWorld allows a lot more freedom with the set in comparison, and the Purge was a diet version of WaterWorld anyway, with a couple "horror" tricks to make it different enough.

Animal Actors would be fine, but that would be one hell of a bottleneck, which is why I believe they don't use it.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

Lagoon shows were great, sucks that Ghoulish ran short, but it isnt a major draw. Not at the level of HNF.

USH proved this past year you can take a pre-existing space, overlay it for HHN shows at night, and still run regular daytime WaterWorld shows.

2 massive theaters sit empty during HHN at USF with approximately 2K in seating capacity combined.

2? Am I dumb? lol

Are you referring to Animal Actors and Bourne?

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Just because it isn't on the level of HNF doesn't mean it doesn't draw. Adding back the lagoon show would do wonders to spread out capacity.

We can't compare WaterWorld to Bourne. It's already been explained the logistical challenges of doing a Bourne overlay. WaterWorld allows a lot more freedom with the set in comparison, and the Purge was a diet version of WaterWorld anyway, with a couple "horror" tricks to make it different enough.

Animal Actors would be fine, but that would be one hell of a bottleneck, which is why I believe they don't use it.

Didn't say to cut it, anything helps, just mentioned it isn't at the same level as HNF so it won't make the impact to alleviate HHN's capacity issues on its own.

You could do the same thing at Bourne, literally reuse all of the special effects and sets. Change the costumes, what's in the background and call it a day. B&T in its infancy reused all the same effects as Wild West before they started to invest more into B&T.

Once DreamWorks wraps up, AA wouldn't cause much of a bottleneck as you are spreading out crowds away from NY/SF/FFL.

2? Am I dumb? lol

Are you referring to Animal Actors and Bourne?

Those two yes, didn't include BMG since Grinchmas takes over it... though it's not like there's another large theater in IOA that could house it.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

Those two yes, didn't include BMG since Grinchmas takes over it... though it's not like there's another large theater in IOA that could house it.

I'd love to see them use BMG for the event but like you said, it's doubtful they'd move Grinchmas.

I'll continue to pound the table for an adult version of HMU, lol

 

[Brian G.]

Didn't say to cut it, anything helps, just mentioned it isn't at the same level as HNF so it won't make the impact to alleviate HHN's capacity issues on its own.

You could do the same thing at Bourne, literally reuse all of the special effects and sets. Change the costumes, what's in the background and call it a day. B&T in its infancy reused all the same effects as Wild West before they started to invest more into B&T.

Once DreamWorks wraps up, AA wouldn't cause much of a bottleneck as you are spreading out crowds away from NY/SF/FFL.


Those two yes, didn't include BMG since Grinchmas takes over it... though it's not like there's another large theater in IOA that could house it.

I think you're underselling what the lagoon show can do - but noted.

As far as Bourne, it really isn't that simple... And using B&T from the early years isn't a shining example considering what the resort was dealing with financially.

With AA - it was still creating a bottleneck when they had shows there in the past. I can't even imagine walking through CP after a show dump now.

I'd love to see them use BMG for the event but like you said, it's doubtful they'd move Grinchmas.

I'll continue to pound the table for an adult version of HMU, lol

Heck, they can go as easy as just showcasing the concept and design of the original characters they plan on including this year.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I think you're underselling what the lagoon show can do - but noted.

As far as Bourne, it really isn't that simple... And using B&T from the early years isn't a shining example considering what the resort was dealing with financially.

With AA - it was still creating a bottleneck when they had shows there in the past. I can't even imagine walking through CP after a show dump now.


Heck, they can go as easy as just showcasing the concept and design of the original characters they plan on including this year.

Back during Ghoulish and Marathon, you'd rarely see more than a few hundred or so guests... great, but not significant enough (probably cause they'd only put one 'official' entrance over by Crepes versus springfield. Not trying to downplay the lagoon show, but it wasn't a major draw during HHN.

I can be completely wrong on Bourne, but from everything I've seen, that's as easy as it gets turn around a stage daily into something else overnight. Heck, UC was just there a few days ago showing off a presentation... didn't seem like show ops were worried about someone falling onto a trap door or opening the armory backstage.

Well, CP's scare zone design could be modified for modern-day crowds, they need to rethink that zone, and last year was a great first step in putting Oddfellow on a stage and placing actors in dedicated holes.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

Heck, they can go as easy as just showcasing the concept and design of the original characters they plan on including this year.

I would love this, do the standard HMU show but infuse a bit of HHN into it. Show off some characters of the past and some of the current year.

 

[Brian G.]

Back during Ghoulish and Marathon, you'd rarely see more than a few hundred or so guests... great, but not significant enough (probably cause they'd only put one 'official' entrance over by Crepes versus springfield. Not trying to downplay the lagoon show, but it wasn't a major draw during HHN.

I'm telling you, you're underestimating it..

I can be completely wrong on Bourne, but from everything I've seen, that's as easy as it gets turn around a stage daily into something else overnight. Heck, UC was just there a few days ago showing off a presentation... didn't seem like show ops were worried about someone falling onto a trap door or opening the armory backstage.

Well, a simple powerpoint presentation would be fine... hah

Well, CP's scare zone design could be modified for modern-day crowds, they need to rethink that zone, and last year was a great first step in putting Oddfellow on a stage and placing actors in dedicated holes.

It's still a major throughway, even with the most minimal scare zone setup.

Don't get me wrong, there are ways to add capacity and help spread out the crowds - I just don't think these are the answers, nor are they as simple as you're presenting.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

Don't get me wrong, there are ways to add capacity and help spread out the crowds - I just don't think these are the answers, nor are they as simple as you're presenting.

Do you have any insight as to what they could possibly do to add capacity? I guess this would include opening up attractions such as Fallon/ET/etc, but if they can't use the show venues and don't add another house - i'm not sure what else they could do?

 

[SixBillium]

Out of all the issues HHN has presented over the years, the only one I think truly needs to be addressed/overhauled this year is the Sprung + B-108 congestion. Hopefully Dreamworks is open so queues can be re-routed again, but man, that was rough.

I agree something with ticketing or crowd control needing to be figured out, but I'd say having to shut down 2 haunted houses frequently because of traffic backups is a bigger detriments to the experience.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Do you have any insight as to what they could possibly do to add capacity? I guess this would include opening up attractions such as Fallon/ET/etc, but if they can't use the show venues and don't add another house - i'm not sure what else they could do?

ET could maybe draw some folks towards the start of the event when it's more locals/APs dependent, Fallon won't move the needle. The Simpsons didn't move either when it opened.

Diagon was very busy this past year, so putting Death Eaters back there was a major improvement.

I'm telling you, you're underestimating it..



Well, a simple powerpoint presentation would be fine... hah



It's still a major throughway, even with the most minimal scare zone setup.

Don't get me wrong, there are ways to add capacity and help spread out the crowds - I just don't think these are the answers, nor are they as simple as you're presenting.

I could be very wrong, and I'll eat my words, but from what I saw back in HHN 31, Ghoulish didn't draw a major crowd. Not saying it didn't pull away a few hundred people, but it definitely didn't attract the same type of crowds HNF did.

Not saying its simple, but I'll say again what I got a lot of heat for... I just haven't seen Universal attempt to improve capacity for the event. Same level of rides (probably less when you consider Simpsons is no longer active), fewer stage shows, and no street/side shows during HHN. They increased to 10 houses years ago, but we've seen tremendous attendance growth thanks to Stranger Things and the event hasn't grown in capacity since then. We lost the lagoon last year, understandably, but we lost that back in February of last year and there was no attempt last year at adding in a 2nd stage show or anything somewhere else to make up for it.

Out of all the issues HHN has presented over the years, the only one I think truly needs to be addressed/overhauled this year is the Sprung + B-108 congestion. Hopefully Dreamworks is open so queues can be re-routed again, but man, that was rough.

I agree something with ticketing or crowd control needing to be figured out, but I'd say having to shut down 2 haunted houses frequently because of traffic backups is a bigger detriments to the experience.

That is a serious safety issue that needs to be addressed. It was definitely (hopefully) a one-time thing due to DreamWorks construction, but that exit was a serious nightmare.

 

[IzzyB]

I can be completely wrong on Bourne, but from everything I've seen, that's as easy as it gets turn around a stage daily into something else overnight. Heck, UC was just there a few days ago showing off a presentation... didn't seem like show ops were worried about someone falling onto a trap door or opening the armory backstage.

You wouldn't be able to have any real sets , it is a plain stage outside of the programmable stage pieces that couldn't be used for something else. So a screen and a stage, not a lot you can do with that outside of presenting a power point. I don't think they worry about people falling thru holes. But I imagine backstage is tight and they probably don't want people messing with backstage stuff.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

You wouldn't be able to have any real sets , it is a plain stage outside of the programmable stage pieces that couldn't be used for something else. So a screen and a stage, not a lot you can do with thought outside of presenting a power point. I don't think they worry about people falling thru holes. But I imagine backstage is tight and they probably don't want people messing with backstage stuff.

Bourne has proven you don't need to rely on physical sets to create a great show. AoV had received great applause/crowds when they had that small tiny temp stage during 27 when Irma broke their stage.

Not saying to reuse the exact effects/stunts Bourne has... just use the actual stage platform itself for something.

 

[IzzyB]

Bourne has proven you don't need to rely on physical sets to create a great show. AoV had received great applause/crowds when they had that small tiny temp stage during 27 when Irma broke their stage.

Not saying to reuse the exact effects/stunts Bourne has... just use the actual stage platform itself for something.

Bourne uses a TON of physical sets, it wouldn't be what it is without those physical sets.