Harry Potter and the Escape from Gringotts

[Tbad556]

To be fair, I went on FJ during softs multiple times and never once experienced a breakdown. FJ certainly had some issues, but they were test running it with the general public as opposed to just package holders at this point on the timeline. I think people are rightfully freaking out a little because the ride is so advanced that it should be operating smoother since opening is less than a week away.

FJ broke down all the time. I'll just say this, I've been stuck on it 7 out of the 20 times I've been on it. Almost all of those breakdowns were either during soft openings or within the first 3 months of Hogsmeade opening.

 

[DragonSlayer]

I do kind of get the feeling it seems different this time. The blocking system and control issues with this will likely be harder to fix than mechanical / show sync issues with a regular dark ride like FJ without the coaster aspects. Enough normal coasters with complex block setups have these kinds of problems, before you even add in all the other things such as the dark ride elements which have to combine with it as well. To use one very similar example, the Gerstlauer Eurofighter 'Saw' at Thorpe Park had massive block issues when it first opened, similar to those going on with Gringotts by the look of things. It suffered thanks to having dual onload, dual offload, and multiple MCBRs, which all combined to cause very similar blocking control / train recognition issues. It was on reduced capacity for months after opening and had the manufacturers on site for most of the first season trying to finally fix all the issues. This won't be something where it has to be done by 8th July so will suddenly come together no matter what - if they can't get it together, they can't...

 

[Teebin]

I do kind of get the feeling it seems different this time. The blocking system and control issues with this will likely be harder to fix than mechanical / show sync issues with a regular dark ride like FJ without the coaster aspects. Enough normal coasters with complex block setups have these kinds of problems, before you even add in all the other things such as the dark ride elements which have to combine with it as well. To use one very similar example, the Gerstlauer Eurofighter 'Saw' at Thorpe Park had massive block issues when it first opened, similar to those going on with Gringotts by the look of things. It suffered thanks to having dual onload, dual offload, and multiple MCBRs, which all combined to cause very similar blocking control / train recognition issues. It was on reduced capacity for months after opening and had the manufacturers on site for most of the first season trying to finally fix all the issues. This won't be something where it has to be done by 8th July so will suddenly come together no matter what - if they can't get it together, they can't...

Oops... I looked it up... never mind. I wasn't under the impression that this ride required a traditional blocking system as each train is inevitably controlled by a LIM system. Perhaps the LIM areas are also referred to as quazi-blocks? Still, aren't the cars only released onto a gravity track twice during this ride? The rest is LIM controlled.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Oops... I looked it up... never mind. I wasn't under the impression that this ride required a traditional blocking system as each train is inevitably controlled by a LIM system. Perhaps the LIM areas are also referred to as quazi-blocks? Still, aren't the cars only released onto a gravity track twice during this ride? The rest is LIM controlled.

Traditionally a coaster powered with LIMs would still be blocked as usual, with the powered sections acting as block sections if a train can be stopped on them (if the section has the ability to fully stop a train it'll be a block section, whereas if a train can't be held it will be counted as part of the existing block up to the next set of block brakes). For example, ROTM is still fully block controlled despite the LIM sections at the beginning. I believe the entire show scene segment up to the switch track is one block in that case though, hence the holding brake between onload and the merge point from both sides of the station which holds the next train until the preceding one has cleared the show scenes.

Given Gringotts is essentially a coaster-based system underneath, it will have a traditional block setup. It would be impossible for it to operate without; if for example a train 'valleyed' in one of the gravity sections, the system would need to be able to stop the train behind from advancing to the section of track where the train in front was stalled.

Having said all this, I suppose it is theoretically possible they could be using a combination, which would be unique to this ride. I'm thinking FJ's track sensor thingys (I'd forgotten about all the fun they caused in 2010...), with a block system just protecting the coaster segments. That would be completely unique and would seem utterly unnecessarily complicated, but would certainly explain why it's giving them such problems!

This is why I really would have liked to have got to the bottom of all the manufacturers involved... I'm currently operating on the assumption of Intamin track and control system, Premier train chassis and bodyshells, and an Oceaneering motion base sandwiched between. If anyone wishes to PM me to confirm or deny, feel free! :wave: Interesting topic to delve into, Teebs.

 

[Teebin]

So, two very short gravity controlled coaster sections each inevitably handed off to LIMs. Do they only rely on one safety communication per ride point? I would think a 3 device confirmation with a two device acceptable limit would be just fine and ducky to keep it moving along. It's fun not knowing, and even better not understanding should it be explained to me.

(yeah, I am the one who grabs the jar with the stubborn cover, absolutely sure I can remove it easily)

 

[DragonSlayer]

So, two very short gravity controlled coaster sections each inevitably handed off to LIMs. Do they only rely on one safety communication per ride point? I would think a 3 device confirmation with a two device acceptable limit would be just fine and ducky to keep it moving along. It's fun not knowing, and even better not understanding should it be explained to me.

(yeah, I am the one who grabs the jar with the stubborn cover, absolutely sure I can remove it easily)

Normally block sensors are double, depending on manufacturer. I must confess I'm not sure of redundancy or tolerance for one failing in the presence of another functional one - the ride would likely still be operable because the PLC could be satisfied of the whereabouts of a train, but operational standards might dictate that you wouldn't operate just on one in case that failed.. I'm trying to find a photo but it's difficult because it has to be so close up on a particular area.

Edit - This example from Wild Eagle isn't all that clear due to the angle and the presence of sensors for drive tyres as well but you sort of get the idea of what they are. The little teal green things:

RCDB

 

[Teebin]

Edit - This example from Wild Eagle isn't all that clear due to the angle and the presence of sensors for drive tyres as well but you sort of get the idea of what they are. The little teal green things:

Yeah, I just call that a "brake run"... some I have found are used both as safety, and to slow a coaster down to an accepted speed for its next run. Had never heard the term "block". You Brits are nothing but trouble with your terms...

 

[Eastcoast]

Coasters have "block" sections. Each train must clear a "block" before the next train can proceed. For simplicity sake, the lift is usually one block, followed by the mid course brake run that would be another block, the brake run is a block, and the station itself. For example, A train must clear the mid course brake run before a train can crest the lift hill on a traditional coaster. Gringotts on the other hand I imagine could have many blocks due to it being more of a dark ride/show type attraction and the fact that it has several ride vehicles if I'm correct.

Block is more of an industry term. I'm surprised a lot of people on here aren't more into regular old theme parks and coasters!

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Block is more of an industry term. I'm surprised a lot of people on here aren't more into regular old theme parks and coasters!

I learned about the industry I learned from Roller Coaster Tycoon. :rofl:

 

[ChrisFL]

I do kind of get the feeling it seems different this time. The blocking system and control issues with this will likely be harder to fix than mechanical / show sync issues with a regular dark ride like FJ without the coaster aspects.

I've been under the impression that there are screens and other possible objects that pass into the ride's path along the way...I'm guessing having that part synchronized as to not cause crashes may be the biggest problem?

 

[ChrisM]

I learned about the industry I learned from Roller Coaster Tycoon. :rofl:

I thought the same thing when I read that! That... And how to launch coasters off the tracks without lawsuits from the victims family members! I keed I keed!

 

[The_Bled]

Is anyone else a little irked this ride isn't open for softs? I came for TM preview, no ride. Public softs no ride. There's no way in hell I'm going to fight an extreme peak crowd just to ride this.

 

[adjjb]

They can't really soft open it when it is broken and has so many issues, they're probably running it empty over and over until the 8th to fix all the problems.

 

[ChrisFL]

Is anyone else a little irked this ride isn't open for softs? I came for TM preview, no ride. Public softs no ride. There's no way in hell I'm going to fight an extreme peak crowd just to ride this.

It isn't like they're purposely denying people from riding because it's not opening day yet....they're trying to get it working and reliable.

 

[Skubersky]

IMHO the way they are handling it is brilliant. They could let day guests on Gringotts, half would get good rides and decide they don't need to come back next year to see it again; the other half would wait hours just to get dumped or evaced, and spread bad word of mouth.
This way they get all the money from mech & food sales, and all these people will want to come back next vacation for the ride. Profit!

 

[novawildcat18]

IMHO the way they are handling it is brilliant. They could let day guests on Gringotts, half would get good rides and decide they don't need to come back next year to see it again; the other half would wait hours just to get dumped or evaced, and spread bad word of mouth.
This way they get all the money from mech & food sales, and all these people will want to come back next vacation for the ride. Profit!

It is brilliant. But also, when I was in Diagon Alley, I didn't even remember that there was still a large piece of the expansion that I haven't seen yet. I spent all day just exploring the area and was already completely satisfied. Glad I still have something left to look forward to.

 

[kimlovesfl]

It is brilliant. But also, when I was in Diagon Alley, I didn't even remember that there was still a large piece of the expansion that I haven't seen yet. I spent all day just exploring the area and was already completely satisfied. Glad I still have something left to look forward to.

Yes, same with me; I have spent 2 evenings there, and really haven't missed not being able to ride. Doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to it, it just means that Gringott's is but a small portion of DA.

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Is anyone else a little irked this ride isn't open for softs? I came for TM preview, no ride. Public softs no ride. There's no way in hell I'm going to fight an extreme peak crowd just to ride this.

I'm not irked but I am with you about fighting crowds. I figured Gringotts is something I won't do for maybe 4-5 years. I just did Harry Potter and Forbidden Journey Friday for the first time. Was a 15 minute wait (Really a walk on )

 

[bcoots]

Any chance Gringotts will soft open tomorrow with it being the last day of softs?

 

[illumination]

IMHO the way they are handling it is brilliant. They could let day guests on Gringotts, half would get good rides and decide they don't need to come back next year to see it again; the other half would wait hours just to get dumped or evaced, and spread bad word of mouth.
This way they get all the money from mech & food sales, and all these people will want to come back next vacation for the ride. Profit!

Hey Universal: Please take all of my money. What you are doing is amazing!