Has Universal Lost Its Way?

[Paulio]

Universal doesn't have a "Walt" figure. They don't have that story nor the "Fab 5" family characters. The closest thing Universal has is the Minions and Harry Potter. When you look at Mickey, Goofy, etc you automatically think of the parks. While the vision for While Disney World has changed since Walt ran the company, they still echo his vision. Universal does not have that. Universal feels much more corporate while Disney feels more classy. It's hard for me to put into words but when I'm at Universal I'm always saying, "this wouldn't happen at Disney".

In terms of creation and amusement, I believe Steven Spielberg to be Universal's Walt Disney, as he's responsible for creating some of the greatest attractions fans and critics love for (e.g., ET, Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, Spider-Man, Hulk, The Mummy, Toon Lagoon, Dr Seuss, Kongfrontation, King Kong Encounter, etc). George Lucas' only involvement with Disney parks was Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and to the extent Alien: Encounter. Hell, even Spielberg is involved in the construction for the Universal Studios theme park in Beijing right now.

But in terms of companies as a whole, you're correct. Universal doesn't have a Walt Disney, but so does 20th Century Fox, Paramount, Columbia, and Warner Bros. These studios are responsible for creating live-action movies, many which are most memorable and only one of the studios created the memorable Looney Tunes, which they stopped in 1969. Psycho, Jaws, ET, and BTTF from Universal Studios, Indiana Jones from Paramount Pictures, and Star Wars and Alien from 20th Century Fox. One thing these studios doesn't have is the Studio Tour in which Universal is famously touted for when they charged guests $25 to get in and see the action taking place behind the scenes. Disney is mostly famous for their animated movies and dominates that certain part of the aspect and based off live-action movies on remake or rides. What I like about Universal is that its citywalk and its parks feels more like a reflection of our modern times and problems (music and stores and some parts of the music like you expect from a mall or shopping or home district), where as Disney it's always a different part of living in Walt Disney's world of their vision. Every area at a Walt Disney parks feel so adsorb to Disney's own world, where as Universal's areas, the land became their own thing. One thing that Disney doesn't have is the Studio Tour which you could enter from the Universal theme park unless if you have special VIP access. That's where you feel like you're in the world of movie magic at a theme park.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

As a reminder to everyone, keep this on topic and respectful.

 

[WAJAS]

Another point on this same topic.

UOR tends to put signs and ropes to direct guest traffic and distribution of information, while WDW tends to use cast members stationed throughout the park to do the same. This is most evident during park capacity days or any peak day during a parade. I believe the latter gives a more human feel to the destination, which leads to a rise in guest satisfaction.

 

[GadgetGuru]

Honestly, I think Disney is more hit-or-miss on ops than they're given credit for. Disney has done cast member training for long enough that I can assume they're better at it than Universal. They definitely have more infrastructure built around it. But, they have enough people (who aren't paid well) that issues do happen.

I think Disney's secret to customer service is the Disney College Program. It has a cult following. There's a surprisingly large group of college students that love Disney, go work for the parks, act as model employees, and then end up staying in Orlando. I know several people who have followed that pattern perfectly. Universal doesn't have anything to counter that. They have internships, but nothing as established and well-branded as DCP.

 

[Teebin]

Hm. Well having read through all the posts up to this point, I don’t really see any major issue with how Universal is doing business at all. It’s merely a good excuse for people to play the Disney vs Universal game.

It reminds me of that magic forum...

 

[JungleSkip]

Hm. Well having read through all the posts up to this point, I don’t really see any major issue with how Universal is doing business at all. It’s merely a good excuse for people to play the Disney vs Universal game.

It reminds me of that magic forum...

Sorry, I disagree. When I'm coming to park at the resort, I shouldn't be greeted by a line of cones that leads to a cluster f with no one directing parking.

When I go to eat I shouldn't see a huge line with only 1/2 (generously) of the registers open.

When I go to get a drink at their insanely lucrative Halloween event I shouldn't have to wait 20 minutes because the bar is only staffed by two severely in-over-their-head bartenders.

When the park is legitimately crowded I shouldn't see only one side of Revenge of the Mummy being loaded, and then the merge cast member still ignoring single rider.

I don't blame TMs for most of this stuff. They're set up to fail by management who only expects the bare minimum to be enough, not realizing they're not the UOR of 2006 anymore.

 

[JoeCamel]

I don't blame TMs for most of this stuff. They're set up to fail by management who only expects the bare minimum to be enough, not realizing they're not the UOR of 2006 anymore.

THIS^^^


I spent a few years being a super park goer. In two years I went to WDW over 500 days until I felt that company no longer valued me as a customer. They publicly said they would seek to discourage attendance by AP holders as we didn't spend like the once in a lifetime guests and they backed that up by cutting discounts and perks and not investing in new attractions. Actively cut staffing to the point the morale declined. I watched it day by day. There were and are dedicated long term CMs that still infuse the place with magic. I certainly took note of the activity in the shadow of the castle where the face characters put smiles on the faces of kids and their parents. It was pure Disney magic to watch.

Since I saw the writing on the wall and I was bored seeing the same thing everyday I looked around and went back to Universal. I had stood in line for Hogsmeade opening but was not going to fight the crowds everyday so it was after that I went to WDW so much. The closing of Jaws and the DA rumors and construction came at just the right time for me to jump the shark and move my interests up the road. What a refreshing experience! Cheap APs, valet parking, discounts - real discounts and TMs that seemed happy to perform their job in a professional way.

They seemed to have a corporation that wanted me to be there and it showed in the fan community. They built me new stuff so I kept coming back and gladly opened my wallet to spend on the fun. 6 hours for DA opening, yep, I did that with a smile on my face and spent about 150 days over the next two years in the parks.

I saw the bad, I saw the good, it is most often not the front lines that are the cause of the dissatisfaction but the management. They just reflect what they feel.


I felt I needed to take a break and stay closer to my mom this year (100 and still going) so I didn't renew but I would like nothing better than 11 nights at HHN like I did last year. The TM's are faced with an impossible task given the crowd levels now. As posted above a rethink of OPs and training/staffing levels has to begin now to keep up. The people are not going away, this is just the beginning for Universal and when they open the new gate these two parks will need to be running like a machine to set the tone and processes for the new park hires.

Sorry for the long story but that is my experience. Both are good, both are bad. One is NOT better than the other just different.

 

[Legacy]

Hm. Well having read through all the posts up to this point, I don’t really see any major issue with how Universal is doing business at all. It’s merely a good excuse for people to play the Disney vs Universal game.

It reminds me of that magic forum...

I think there’s a difference between arguing preferences on how things are done and discussing how things may be done better. In consumer relations, operations, logistics and personnel management, etc, there’s always a difference between effective and efficient, plus the perception regarding if the engagement is personable.

From my experience (and conversations with other TMs), Universal is merely effective in how they operate and how they manage throughput. What they do gets the job done and, from appearances, that’s enough for Uni management. What they struggle with is efficiency. The better way is less important than how they’ve always done it.

Disney, conversely, values the personal engagement over almost all others. That’s even, sometimes, to detriment of their overall effectiveness (the Magic Moments discussion, for example). What that DOES do is mask any failures in the systems’ process because, from the consumers’ perspective, there’s the perception of effort because at least there’s a person right there trying to do something. It’s the difference between an automated response customer service line and a real person.

My frustration is that there IS a right answer to running a theme park (like anything else); maximizing efficiency and consumer perception. It’s hard to argue the Universal is better than Disney on that end, even with the arguably better resort.

 

[Frank Drackman]

I do not think they lost their way. I think society has changed over the years and (a lot like EPCOT), folks don't want 20 minute attractions.

I work in Corporate America (many years experience). All businesses use the same buzz words, try and copy 'concepts' that work. I think it has been over 10 years since I have seen Disney used as a customer service example....I think the last time I had to hear someone talk it was Chick Filet and many hotel chains (why do you think Disney used Magic Bands to allow staff to address people by name?) So the stuff I am replying to next is not meant to be a Disney vrs UNI...I have seen good and bad at both! (I have no inside working knowledge of either, but I have talked to many employees of both companies over the years).

The attitude at Universal is definitely guilty until proven innocent. At times ops can be very adversarial towards guests - while at Disney they treat guests the way guests should be treated.

I think Security is an outside vendor. I have had good interaction w/ security though...as well as seen ones that seem power hungry or something.

At Disney, guests are treated like individuals. There's as much emphasis placed on making small magical moments as there is on a ride throughput or standard operating procedures.

Examples:
Cast Members stop to chat to guests often.
Cast Members are encouraged to make spontaneous magical moments.
Cast Members are proactive in handling guest situations.

At Universal, guests are defined as a population. The focus is always around what do to with the mass of people, rather than providing individual attention to the paying customer.

Examples:
Universal often uses a guilty until proven innocent approach with their security team. "We see (x) trend happening in our parks, therefore we will take action on everybody rather than identifying the problem"
Team Members are more focused on ride throughput and operational efficiencies rather than focusing on the guest experience as a whole (funny because they still can't get it right)

I like UNI's 'magical moments' as they feel a little more genuine to me, they seem to come for the Employee and not a quota to meet a guest expectation that marketing tries sell.

Chatting to guest....ok, I hear princess a lot...UNI Employees can really talk to guest...I guess it is to a fault because it is not an act, it is a real conversation!

I was seeing such a downhill experience in guest interactions at Disney by the time I gave up. You seem to hint that folks are trained...well, I recall going into the main guest services place on Main Street (when the fire station was still next door. To me, it looked like one person who knew what they were doing to three or five 'front lines'. I almost busted out laughing when the guest next to me inquired 'what's with the '71 all over the place? Front line at the place where the Gold Standard Experience should be...'I do not know, yet me go find out, I know the firetruck over there is #71'.

See, I don't agree with this at all. "Magical moments" are cutesy pie BS that come off as so fake. Disney's ops are the best because they are THE BEST at what to do with the mass of people. I don't need a CM talking to me about how magical my day is. I DO need them to know how to do their jobs and do them well.

Universal does fine with the "magical moments" stuff. They've glommed that off Disney just fine. What they lack is the ability to grasp their newly garnered crowds.

Yes...I mean UNI has stuff like yelling 'it's so fluffy' when they see a kid walking around w/ Unicorn merch, but (to me) it was unexpected and somewhat fun.

No, magical moments at Disney are when a cast member gets a specific assignment (task) from the CSD system to spend the next 15 minutes of their day finding a family and making them feel special. It's pre-planned in their labor forecasting tools. Ride Ops can do this by back-dooring people directly onto their attractions/whereas park services do this through their water art on the guest pathways. It's not always a voluntary action (although that's also encouraged).

Magical moments are threaded into the fabric of Disney's employment culture. They're designed to not only make the guest feel special but to also empower the cast members to take ownership of their role and exceed the expectations of their visitors. The essential duties of operating a ride or managing a shop are still maintained.



Universal never instructs its team members to go above an beyond for the individual. They'll tell new team members that if little Timmy drops his ice cream cone you replace it free of charge, but they never encourage spontaneous acts of kindness towards their guests. It's purely operational.

I'm sorry. Disney pushed me too far long ago. I almost asked if they were going to refund my passes, my hotel for the week as I was going to take my family and get the F out of Orlando...I really should have went off of this 'guest services' employee for feeling the need to push her BS agenda at me...I really should have sued, it is the American way. I have never in my entire life felt as spoken down to as I was that day, but I will not share details...but she knew I was scheming something, I was just trying to collect and what I was told by Disney to do (wife pre planning type stuff).

Now...I was at the 40th, just happened to be at a time we planned on being there. The whole day was this BS 'maybe we should do something'...oh, let's run a parade from 20 years ago...well, it was a packed day...when night feel and the big wigs had gone home...so did the entire A team...the Castle Projection/Wishes was bad OPs left and right...I have never felt true fear for my families life like the BS that went down at the end of wishes...when OPs had lost it more than a few hours earlier...

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

I haven't been too happy with TransGringKongFallRious (that's what I'm calling the recent run of rides). But, it sounds like they're returning to more practical attractions after F&F, and for that I am very happy.

Screenz are basically like CGI: using them for one attraction can be great, but when it's used on too many attractions, it's redundant. FoP works because AK doesn't have any other screen rides.

 

[Andysol]

.
I don't blame TMs for most of this stuff. They're set up to fail by management who only expects the bare minimum to be enough, not realizing they're not the UOR of 2006 anymore.

:agree:

I know that everyone and their dog talks about the enormous failure that is MDE/MM+. But I’ll argue to the grave about its success- maybe not for the consumer, but for the long term P&L statement. And it’s examples like this that always have me looking at its brilliance.
I’m not a fan of it, because slow days don’t exist at WDW anymore- barring a hurricane.
Nothing beats express passes. And uni can still have DEAD days will full ops running.

But where Disney is brilliant, is because of MM+/MDE/FP+ the crowd sourcing, staffing and general ops are optimized for projected and real-time crowd levels. It took them to the next level. On days WDW needs to run like it was 2006 UOR, they can staff appropriately and reduce trains/sides operating. And on days that WDW needs to run like Christmas Day they can staff appropriately and run the number of appropriate side and trains. And every crowd level in between.

The infrastructure and crowd management/predictions between the two is a colossal difference.

 

[JoeCamel]

:agree:

I know that everyone and their dog talks about the enormous failure that is MDE/MM+. But I’ll argue to the grave about its success- maybe not for the consumer, but for the long term P&L statement. And it’s examples like this that always have me looking at its brilliance.
I’m not a fan of it, because slow days don’t exist at WDW anymore- barring a hurricane.
Nothing beats express passes. And uni can still have DEAD days will full ops running.

But where Disney is brilliant, is because of MM+/MDE/FP+ the crowd sourcing, staffing and general ops are optimized for projected and real-time crowd levels. It took them to the next level. On days WDW needs to run like it was 2006 UOR, they can staff appropriately and reduce trains/sides operating. And on days that WDW needs to run like Christmas Day they can staff appropriately and run the number of appropriate side and trains. And every crowd level in between.

The infrastructure and crowd management/predictions between the two is a colossal difference.

Unfortunately I see under-staffing and long lines as a result of MM+. To each their own experience

The need to plan FP and ressies many moons out is a different conversation. Neither enhance my experience only TDO's bottom line.

 

[Andysol]

The need to plan FP and ressies many moons out is a different conversation. Neither enhance my experience only TDO's bottom line.

Zero argument here. That was my point- It’s a home run for DIS- at least for now- although it has had operating costs are down, spending is up, while profits are twice as high- for how many quarters in a row now? Ceiling hasn’t been hit yet apparently.


Me? I’ll be over here with my express pass when I’m not lounging at VB.

 

[OLSinFLA]

I'll just talk about my experience last week when I was there:

-Parking attendants either non existent or not even bothering to direct cars where to park
-Long lines at counter service restaurants running at 1/2 capacity registers
-Indifferent guest relations cast members on two different occasions
-At HHN there was 1 person working at Moe's and 2 severely overmatched TMs at Duff Gardens, leading to long lines and ridiculous waits just to get a beer.

Uni's Ops aren't terrible, but they sloppy and far too often disinterested. It isn't fitting for the world class resort they are

Uni has the worst parking attendants ever. They even make Sea World look organized. Tonight I counted 4 just talking and no one parking cars.

 

[OLSinFLA]

At Disney, guests are treated like individuals. There's as much emphasis placed on making small magical moments as there is on a ride throughput or standard operating procedures.

Examples:
Cast Members stop to chat to guests often.
Cast Members are encouraged to make spontaneous magical moments.
Cast Members are proactive in handling guest situations.

At Universal, guests are defined as a population. The focus is always around what do to with the mass of people, rather than providing individual attention to the paying customer.

Examples:
Universal often uses a guilty until proven innocent approach with their security team. "We see (x) trend happening in our parks, therefore we will take action on everybody rather than identifying the problem"
Team Members are more focused on ride throughput and operational efficiencies rather than focusing on the guest experience as a whole (funny because they still can't get it right)

We were taught the 5/20 rule (10 feet eye contact, 5 feet verbally acknowledge). I know at both my attractions (Disaster and Express) we were very people oriented and a very tight group (Disaster TMs still have get togethers). Of course, we also HAD to interact with people in Disaster so if you weren't a people person you'd high tail it out pretty fast.

 

[Miketheboss]

At Islands, there are always only two TMs in Guest Services and a line out the door. I was in line to get a birthday pin for my cousin. A manager came out to help one of the TMs and I told her "I just need a pin". She helped me and asked others in the line if anyone else needed pins. About half of those people raised their hands. At Animal Kingdom, there's at least 5 cast members in guest services and one outside with an IPad asking guests what is it that they needed.

Also, the guest services at Universal are out in the sun while Disney attempts to provide some shade with umbrellas. Its that "Disney Difference"

 

[Paulio]

I haven't been too happy with TransGringKongFallRious (that's what I'm calling the recent run of rides). But, it sounds like they're returning to more practical attractions after F&F, and for that I am very happy.

Screenz are basically like CGI: using them for one attraction can be great, but when it's used on too many attractions, it's redundant. FoP works because AK doesn't have any other screen rides.

Yep, after the backlash from the fans and critics, they're going to be that way. It is said that Super Nintendo World would have the most cutting-edge technology there is more than anything theme park attraction in the world. They already kick it with Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey. Since then, most of the rides were developed for simulators and 3d screens. Screens can contain two things: It saves money and they don't have amount of space in the parks. My opinion is that they're wasteful and lazy and it's the factor of why Disney got the attention at the D23 Expo of this year. Not to mention the Harry Potter revenue is not going to last long so Universal really needs to hit home-run with SNW that isn't going to come out until the early 2020s. On the other hand, Universal really need to make good of its own IPs instead of relying on others. Disney Parks leads the advantage because it make good use of the IPs and they don't have to share money with anyone. Universal really needs to do the same.

 

[Miketheboss]

Universal has Nintendo and they know whats up. They know the kind of fan base that company has. I have no doubt they will create a land that will be like no other.

 

[Paulio]

Universal has Nintendo and they know whats up. They know the kind of fan base that company has. I have no doubt they will create a land that will be like no other.

Yes, that's a good thing. But on the other hand, Universal really needs to use its own IPs instead of relying on others, unless Universal buys out Nintendo (which is never gonna happen, however, it would be nice for an American corporation to own a Japanese company like Sony did with Columbia Pictures, not that I'm serious though lol) like they did with Dreamworks Animation last year.

 

[zg44]

Yes, that's a good thing. But on the other hand, Universal really needs to use its own IPs instead of relying on others, unless Universal buys out Nintendo (which is never gonna happen, however, it would be nice for an American corporation to own a Japanese company like Sony did with Columbia Pictures, not that I'm serious though lol) like they did with Dreamworks Animation last year.

Well it depends.

All things equal (drawing power, global IP strength, local IP strength), you'd want to use a Universal IP over another company's IP.

But there are some IPs with much greater drawing power than any average IP: Harry Potter and the Nintendo IPs fall into that category. So those are definitely worth using across the parks because they have drawing power that Universal needs. But this really only applies to live action IPs now. Other future examples include LOTR/Middle Earth as well as Star Trek (both have uniquely large fanbases and drawing power that could increase attendance versus other IPs).

With respect to animated IPs I feel like Universal should never use another company's animated IP ever again; Universal is now producing up to 3-4 major animated movies a year as well as a lot of animated tv shows (and that doesn't include all of the other characters that they own rights to), so in terms of promoting IPs, animated IPs should only be from Universal IPs.