Human Rights, Horror Nights and the Theme Park Community

[Jake S]

I’d echo everything @Allison said with the addition that if you’re asking why this thread exists … you’re why.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

Blows my mind that someone could be scrolling through the forums, click on this thread, and specifically comment about how much they don't want things to be political - when they had the option to just scroll right past it and not get banned.

Truly astounding

 

[Kichkinet85]

1. I’ve already seen one of these subreddits (cause there were more) get deleted due entirely to one person complaining because their own photos were on there, so, something can and was done about it in that case.

2. Personally, I think it’s important that more people are aware of a subreddit like that’s existence—if I were on that site, or a loved one was, I’d want to know so I could do everything in my power to have mine or a loved ones photos taken down.

If you’re asking what the point is of this thread then you could probably ask the same question for this entire forum. What’s the point of having a thread about the state of Universal if nothing we say can change it? What’s the point of reviewing rides if they’re not gonna change what we don’t like? It’s a very slippery slope when you get to that aspect. IMO, there’s power in speaking up and being a voice for the voiceless. If people see that they’re supported and believed that could potentially give them the courage they may need to speak up about something traumatic that happened to them. I think in this case visibility is very important, and even as you said there were creeps in this thread (and still have been recently), they weren’t tolerated. I won’t speak for the other mods, but, on this subject I feel confident in saying none of us stand for this treatment that happens to employees and the more people that know it’s not tolerated, the better. You never know who’s lurking and who your words can be impacting.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[Andysol]

I’d echo everything @Allison said with the addition that if you’re asking why this thread exists … you’re why.

Oh, give me a break.

I don’t and wouldn’t ever touch a team member because I was raised correctly and understand boundaries.

So take your slighted attack towards me and head back up to your temple on high where you can sit and judge all those who don’t have your incredible wisdom and morals.

@Allison explained it perfect. No need to be a douche.

 

[Jake S]

I don’t and wouldn’t ever touch a team member because I was raised correctly and understand boundaries.

my point is that the purpose of this thread is not to win over people inclined to make unwanted physical contact with team members.

 

[Andysol]

my point is that the purpose of this thread is not to win over people inclined to make unwanted physical contact with team members.

I asked the question. So… according to you… IM the reason this thread exists?
If everyone were me, this thread actually wouldn’t exist at all because no one would be touched.

So your point isn’t a good one.

It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to make known the actions and goings on of what happens to TMs and scare actors. Which, again, is what Allison said.

This thread should really be for:
1) TMs who are touched - so they know they’re not alone (though I’m sure they know that already).
2) Attendees who see that type of behavior or know someone who does that type of behavior and does and says nothing. Hopefully a thread like this will empower them to speak up and against it in person.
3) People who can take action outside of being a local (which I would qualify as) but I haven’t seen any actionable item for someone like me.

But in no way is someone asking for clarification on why something is being asked the reason for the thread.

Ridiculous attacking and unnecessary point that wins no allies.
And from a mod, no less.

 

[Brian G.]

I asked the question. So… according to you… IM the reason this thread exists?
If everyone were me, this thread actually wouldn’t exist at all because no one would be touched.

So your point is a garbage one.

It seems to me that the purpose of this thread is to make known the actions and goings on of what happens to TMs and scare actors. Which, again, is what Allison said.

This thread should really be for:
1) TMs who are touched - so they know they’re not alone (though I’m sure they know that already).
2) Attendees who see that type of behavior or know someone who does that type of behavior and does and says nothing. Hopefully a thread like this will empower them to speak up and against it in person.

But in no way is someone asking for clarification on why something is being asked the reason for the thread.

Ridiculous, garbage attacking point. And from a mod, no less.

Andy - tone it down. Jake wasn’t trying to be confrontational with you.

 

[Andysol]

Andy - tone it down. Jake wasn’t trying to be confrontational with you.

Brian- literally, who else would he be talking about considering I’m the only one who asked?

“Andy (or people like him) is the reason the thread exists” feels pretty confrontational.

I can understand him saying something along the lines of “ignorant people like you” meaning people who don’t know what the goings on are because he’s not a part of it or in that circle. And that’s fine and understandable- but I was asking what actionable thing someone like me, someone completely removed, could do.

Maybe I’m misreading it but it came off as pretty dang confrontational. Apologies to @Jake S if the latter was his point.
But at the very least, it was a crappy way to put it with no clarification.

 

[fryoj]

Honestly, when I read Jake's post, I took a double take. I read it the same way Andy did. It's poorly worded if it's not an accusation. Saying someone is the problem without explicitly explaining why they feel that is pretty confrontational.

 

[Brian G.]

Brian- literally, who else would he be talking about considering I’m the only one who asked?

“Andy (or people like him) is the reason the thread exists” feels pretty confrontational.

I can understand him saying something along the lines of “ignorant people like you” meaning people who don’t know what the goings on are because he’s not a part of it or in that circle. And that’s fine and understandable- but I was asking what actionable thing someone like me, someone completely removed, could do.

Maybe I’m misreading it but it came off as pretty dang confrontational. Apologies to @Jake S if the latter was his point.
But at the very least, it was a crappy way to put it with no clarification.

Which is what he was saying. Not that you need this thread because you are a culprit - but if you’re asking the question, you may not know the happenings and can find out through here.

 

[Andysol]

Which is what he was saying. Not that you need this thread because you are a culprit - but if you’re asking the question, you may not know the happenings and can find out through here.

Appreciate the clarification.
Apologies @Jake S
So we’re 7 pages and 3 years old on this thread.

Has anyone taken action? Has anyone created a petition or found an email of an executive who has decision making power over this subject so a carefully worded letter could be crafted and sent?
Has there been an attempt for scare actors to band together and come to a consensus of a plan of action for the future?

A person at the entry of each house to let it be known immediate removal and revocation of passes if anyone is touched? Extra security specifically to monitor high “touch risk” actors? Other ideas to bring to attention of management?

Again, is there any actionable plan someone like me could actively help and participate in?


So often these types of issues come up to make people aware and it simply becomes navel gazing and nothing of substance comes from it.

So do we actually care enough about this situation to tangibly do something?
Because if it’s one of my daughters who is getting touched, that’s being addressed immediately and I’m walking her through the processes or we’re developing our own to address it.

If this is genuinely a problem, which I have no reason to believe it isn’t, why have no actions been taken in the last 3 years?
And if there have, how can we, as a community, help amplify it before this HHN?

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Appreciate the clarification.
Apologies @Jake S
So we’re 7 pages and 3 years old on this thread.

Has anyone taken action? Has anyone created a petition or found an email of an executive who has decision making power over this subject so a carefully worded letter could be crafted and sent?
Has there been an attempt for scare actors to band together and come to a consensus of a plan of action for the future?

A person at the entry of each house to let it be known immediate removal and revocation of passes if anyone is touched? Extra security specifically to monitor high “touch risk” actors? Other ideas to bring to attention of management?

Again, is there any actionable plan someone like me could actively help and participate in?


So often these types of issues come up to make people aware and it simply becomes pontificating and nothing of substance comes from it.

So do we actually care enough about this situation to tangibly do something?
Because if it’s one of my daughters who is getting touched, that’s being addressed immediately and I’m walking her through the processes or we’re developing our own to address it.

If this is genuinely a problem, which I have no reason to believe it isn’t, why have no actions been taken in the last 3 years?
And if there have, how can we, as a community, help amplify it before this HHN?

They added a tablet at the entrance of each house showing live CCTV footage. I dont know if it helps people spring into action quicker if something happens but it’s definitely a subtle way of showing would-be offenders that they can get caught.

 

[Allison]

Has anyone taken action? Has anyone created a petition or found an email of an executive who has decision making power over this subject so a carefully worded letter could be crafted and sent?

AoV is no longer affiliated at all with HHN due in large part to the dancers speaking up about their treatment and an anonymous petition calling for their termination, so change can & has come in the past from speaking out and rallying support.

 

[Andysol]

AoV is no longer affiliated at all with HHN due in large part to the dancers speaking up about their treatment and an anonymous petition calling for their termination, so change can & has come in the past from speaking out and rallying support.

The heads of AoV sounds like they were egregious and despicable.

I would assume whatever is happening isn’t to that level but assume unwanted touching is still happening in other capacities (by attendees and not those running it like AoV) and universal seems to be doing nothing about it beyond what they’ve done in the past?

If that’s the case, do you have any thoughts or ideas of something actionable since you were involved in some capacity? Or others who have been on here?

 

[Jake S]

Horror Nights performers unionizing is likely the most effective way to hold Universal accountable for the treatment of its employees. I agree with others that asking Universal, Comcast, whatever, to police online speech is not the way to go (I don't think it would be effective and, generally speaking, I don't want a large corporation acting as an Internet cop). But performers having more leverage to demand tighter security, better guest screening and more direct reprisal when something does happen would, imo, make a difference.

 

[Allison]

The heads of AoV sounds like they were egregious and despicable.

I would assume whatever is happening isn’t to that level but assume unwanted touching is still happening in other capacities (by attendees and not those running it like AoV) and universal seems to be doing nothing about it beyond what they’ve done in the past?

I don’t know what they’re doing behind the scenes as I don’t work for them, I can really only speak for the fact that speaking up has incited change in the past so I have to believe it will continue to do so. It’s most likely next to impossible to have a 100% success rate in keeping guests from harassing SA’s/TM’s/CM’s, but, IMO, the more people speak up, the more it’s put on the forefront that this is an ongoing issue with unruly guests, the better to bring about changes.

 

[Nick]

Horror Nights performers unionizing is likely the most effective way to hold Universal accountable for the treatment of its employees. I agree with others that asking Universal, Comcast, whatever, to police online speech is not the way to go (I don't think it would be effective and, generally speaking, I don't want a large corporation acting as an Internet cop). But performers having more leverage to demand tighter security, better guest screening and more direct reprisal when something does happen would, imo, make a difference.

Not sure if it would be feasible for only HHN employees to unionize as they are seasonal. Now Entertainment Universal TM's as a whole could finally unionize and then upon hire I would think HHN employees would fall into that so that could theoretically be a way. Also far more feasible than the entire resort unionizing, which at this stage in how many TM's they have, will likely never happen.

 

[Andysol]

Horror Nights performers unionizing is likely the most effective way to hold Universal accountable for the treatment of its employees. I agree with others that asking Universal, Comcast, whatever, to police online speech is not the way to go (I don't think it would be effective and, generally speaking, I don't want a large corporation acting as an Internet cop). But performers having more leverage to demand tighter security, better guest screening and more direct reprisal when something does happen would, imo, make a difference.

Not sure if it would be feasible for only HHN employees to unionize as they are seasonal. Now Entertainment Universal TM's as a whole could finally unionize and then upon hire I would think HHN employees would fall into that so that could theoretically be a way. Also far more feasible than the entire resort unionizing, which at this stage in how many TM's they have, will likely never happen.

Unionization isn’t always rainbows. It was my first thought too and then I remembered what Disney did with unionized entertainment during Covid and cutbacks and realized maybe it isn’t the best idea considering they were some of the first disney whacked. It took forever to get them back.

I have to think that they track who gets touched or has a reporting procedure for the TM to make. If not, that needs to happen immediately. A way to document incidents- even minor ones.

Then, that allows them to know which areas of each house have the highest “touch incidents”. Park a security person or camera in that area either to bust people and remove them from park or a security person there as a deterrent.

Just a tiny thought. I’m sure there are loads of others. But if documentation Isn’t even happening… yikes.

 

[Legacy]

The reporting, documentation, and immediate reprisal has happened since the inception of HHN. We had it in 2002. The addition of male vampires in 2004’s Castle Vampyr’s bedroom scene happened expressly because assault and harassment was reported. They cut ties with AoV. They’ve added cameras. Universal does take action. While it can be slow, especially with infrastructural changes, it does happen.

But there’s a bit of a disconnect. The Carrie performer who quit was constantly reporting what happened to her, but got to a point where it was too much despite Universal’s best efforts to curb it. Because it was the GUESTS who were the problem, not Universal (generalized use of the term “guests” there; If you don’t harass performers it doesn’t apply to you). That’s an equation every performer (especially female performers) have to solve for every incident—do I stop doing something I love and report this to get a guest kicked out or do I ignore it. Eventually, it’s too much. And until more guests change their behavior, that math will always be an emotional challenge.

The only way organizational cultures change is calling out bad behavior from all directions. Upper management has to say they won’t tolerate it, and have preventive mechanisms in place. Line works need to feel safe enough to call out bad behavior. Universal already isn’t BAD at this part. But the final, most important element of change, is the lateral enforcement. Peers telling peers “this isn’t a joke, fix yourself.”

I remember a couple of times when I reported guests abuse at house exits, I’d be standing there and the guests AROUND the abuser would be making statements as well. I felt so much more supported and safer that, those times, it wasn’t my word versus a guest. It was my word and OTHER GUESTS versus a guests. When that becomes the norm, then I think the harassment of park entertainment will drastically decrease.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

I think that's really it - if someone is harassing an actor in a SZ and everyone around them says "hey dude, knock it the hell off" - it will likely end right then and there.