Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

[Nick]

They changed Red, kinda sucks but also the ride seems be good so think we can survive this.

I believe it was @Alicia who said this on Twitter - Red's scene change was because she was being sold into sex slavery. That's literally what the scene was depicting. I think updating that was entirely appropriate, just as updating the scenes in Jungle Cruise and updating Splash are.

Just like how much of the things that were said by people back in the 40's, 50's and 60's (when Song of the South was released and Jungle Cruise and Pirates were designed) isn't acceptable today, some of the things depicted are not acceptable today either and as much as we all may like these rides, we need to understand that what was being depicted in Pirates and Jungle Cruise was culturally insensitive and what Splash is based on is so controversial Disney won't even release the movie for purchase or talk about the film at all.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I believe it was @Alicia who said this on Twitter - Red's scene change was because she was being sold into sex slavery. That's literally what the scene was depicting. I think updating that was entirely appropriate, just as updating the scenes in Jungle Cruise and updating Splash are.

Just like how much of the things that were said by people back in the 40's, 50's and 60's (when Song of the South was released and Jungle Cruise and Pirates were designed), some of the things depicted are not acceptable today either and as much as we all may like these rides, we need to understand that what was being depicted in Pirates and Jungle Cruise was culturally insensitive and what Splash is based on is so controversial Disney doesn't even like to talk about it, never mind release the movie for purchase.

I agree though and I know its all fiction because its at Disnyeland but Pirates was about Pirates

It's kinda fantasizing what Pirates were these people smuggled in goods and people..they were not good people. But yes its Disney ride and if they want Red to be a badass fine, life goes on

 

[belloq87]

I believe it was @Alicia who said this on Twitter - Red's scene change was because she was being sold into sex slavery. That's literally what the scene was depicting. I think updating that was entirely appropriate, just as updating the scenes in Jungle Cruise and updating Splash are.

Just like how much of the things that were said by people back in the 40's, 50's and 60's (when Song of the South was released and Jungle Cruise and Pirates were designed), some of the things depicted are not acceptable today either and as much as we all may like these rides, we need to understand that what was being depicted in Pirates and Jungle Cruise was culturally insensitive and what Splash is based on is so controversial Disney won't even release the movie for purchase or talk about the film at all.

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

And unfortunately, that's what hangs over every announcement of changes in other attractions: the specter of something as bad as the new auction scene.

 

[darkridelover]

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

And unfortunately, that's what hangs over every announcement of changes in other attractions: the specter of something as bad as the new auction scene.

It's not junk. It was well done. You just preferred the original and that's fine. But what they replaced it with is not lesser in quality.

 

[belloq87]

It's not junk. It was well done. You just preferred the original and that's fine. But what they replaced it with is not lesser in quality.

If you like it, more power to you. Respectfully, I disagree.

The new dialogue in that sequence is horrendous, and emblematic of modern Disney Imagineering's struggles writing effective humor.

 

[SkiBum]

What's a Trader Sam?

It's like Trader Joe's but with more organic merchandise.

 

[JoeCamel]

It's like Trader Joe's but with more organic merchandise.

Can I get a Chuck for two bucks there?

 

[shiekra38]

It's like Trader Joe's but with more organic merchandise.

Probably for the best it was removed then

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

I find that the scene is improved by imagining that the redhead and the pirates are getting themselves sufficiently drunk for a more debaucherous occasion. Like a party or something...

 

[Parkscope Joe]

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

And unfortunately, that's what hangs over every announcement of changes in other attractions: the specter of something as bad as the new auction scene.

This is why criticism need to be very careful: be precise, descriptive, and constructive. Because people who are slagging off changes (Pirates, JC, SM, or whatever) can't actually back up their claims and go lazy with lots of logical fallacies. I'm not saying you're falling into this, but I think that's what separates someone who has issues with a change for its merits and not because they wish to uphold harmful social structures.

 

[biggerboat16]

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

And unfortunately, that's what hangs over every announcement of changes in other attractions: the specter of something as bad as the new auction scene.

I completely agree. Modern Disney needs to steer clear of these changes to classics, as deep down they probably know that they can never recapture what was once there after ripping it to shreds with a bunch of unwanted and unwarranted changes. This is my biggest complaint with the current state of the company: They don’t build, they destroy. Galaxy’s Edge and Runaway Railway are the only two recent major additions which were ground-up, and even then, only one of those was well-received. Instead of trying to master the art of addition and new attractions, which Runaway Railway is a sign they’re getting better at, they’re spending all of their time leaving their mark on the classics. My primary belief behind this is that they know that people will still wait for POTC or JC no matter what, unless they give JC a Black Hole overlay, so they want to mess with the classic iterations of these attractions so they can leave their mark and take some of the credit away from their predecessors, even if this leaves the attraction a vastly inferior experience

 

[Allison]

I completely agree. Modern Disney needs to steer clear of these changes to classics, as deep down they probably know that they can never recapture what was once there after ripping it to shreds with a bunch of unwanted and unwarranted changes. This is my biggest complaint with the current state of the company: They don’t build, they destroy. Galaxy’s Edge and Runaway Railway are the only two recent major additions which were ground-up, and even then, only one of those was well-received. Instead of trying to master the art of addition and new attractions, which Runaway Railway is a sign they’re getting better at, they’re spending all of their time leaving their mark on the classics. My primary belief behind this is that they know that people will still wait for POTC or JC no matter what, unless they give JC a Black Hole overlay, so they want to mess with the classic iterations of these attractions so they can leave their mark and take some of the credit away from their predecessors, even if this leaves the attraction a vastly inferior experience

So they’re taking away harmful stereotypes and replacing them with stories that are more inclusive, why is evolving with the times such a difficult thing for some folks to comprehend??

It’s really sad that these changes are so unwelcome by some.

 

[PlatinumFate]

So they’re taking away harmful stereotypes and replacing them with stories that are more inclusive, why is evolving with the times such a difficult thing for some folks to comprehend??

It’s really sad that these changes are so unwelcome by some.

Yeah. People need to recognize that sometimes classics need to be changed because they've become outdated. I know people who were severely uncomfortable due to that scene in Pirates and replacing it was for the better. The dialogue is good, the animatronic is impressive, it's altogether a step up and the only argument I've seen against it really is that Disney needs to "Stop trying to change the classics." Thing is, they're not taking away Pirates, they made the smallest change to make that scene more appropriate for a theme park. Same thing as when they made the women chase the pirates instead of pirates chase the women. It's the same deal with them taking out some scenes in Jungle Cruise, they're trying to make the ride more inclusive by taking out a scene that portrayed harmful stereotypes. A theme park is not the place for those depictions and even though it may have been acceptable to be shown back in 1973, we need to recognize that was 50 years ago and times have changed since then and we've become more aware.

 

[JungleSkip]

All fair, but that's not an excuse to do a poor job when you implement the changes, though. That POTC scene was -- whether we like the real-world implications of the content or not -- one of the great tableaux ever designed and executed by Imagineering in a dark ride. The replacement is junk.

And unfortunately, that's what hangs over every announcement of changes in other attractions: the specter of something as bad as the new auction scene.

The new Redhead scene is unfathomably bad.

I understand why they changed it (even if I personally disagree with the justification on this one), but the replacement took a funny scene and changed it into something incredibly lame.

Luckily the scenes that are being (or at least the ones I assume) replaced aren't anything to write home about, and are overdue for a change.

 

[Allison]

Yeah. People need to recognize that sometimes classics need to be changed because they've become outdated. I know people who were severely uncomfortable due to that scene in Pirates and replacing it was for the better. The dialogue is good, the animatronic is impressive, it's altogether a step up and the only argument I've seen against it really is that Disney needs to "Stop trying to change the classics." Thing is, they're not taking away Pirates, they made the smallest change to make that scene more appropriate for a theme park. Same thing as when they made the women chase the pirates instead of pirates chase the women. It's the same deal with them taking out some scenes in Jungle Cruise, they're trying to make the ride more inclusive by taking out a scene that portrayed harmful stereotypes. A theme park is not the place for those depictions and even though it may have been acceptable to be shown back in 1973, we need to recognize that was 50 years ago and times have changed since then and we've become more aware.

Yep, my mom never wanted to take me on POTC because of that scene and that was in the early 90’s, and that’s only one anecdote of evidence, so it was a long overdue and necessary change and whether that change is seen as good or not is totally subjective, just like Splash, just like Jungle Cruise.

If these changes are really that upsetting for people to accept and come to terms with, there’s always the option of not going on the refurbished ride during your visit.

 

[kingcooger]

When it comes to POTC changes, I have mixed feelings. I will speak only to the DL version as to me that has a more complete story

When they changed the Redhead scene, they took out the aged poorly waterfall scene with Davey Jones and returned it to its former, dark cave of foreboding. They also added a simple skeleton to pirate transformation that I enjoy. This was a step in the right direction

The Redhead scene itself is sort of “Eh” to me as all she talks about is run the whole time. There’s nothing else to it really, and that makes me sad. I had hoped it would be better, but since they returned the cave scene, I am not complaining

Jack was a bigger issue overall for me as his inclusion took away the original ending of the Pirates running off with the treasure, only to see at the top of the lift hill that they had all betrayed one another and the parrot got the gold. They could fix this by having Jack tied up by the pirates as they abscond with the gold (which feels more correct to the movies as he never really gets the treasure). This also keeps the Pirates as villains in general, which is how it should be.

As far as JC, I will miss the “Two heads for the price of one” joke and I am curious as to what dialogue/joke they write to replace it, but I am not going to miss the Trader Sam figure itself

 

[JoeCamel]

Sam was pretty much the rimshot to the joke in the ride. He added to the whole and I will miss him but I understand what pressures corporations are under these days. Everything is calculated down to the nth degree and only the numbers matter.

 

[belloq87]

This story contains a quote directly from Disney that I found interesting:

Trader Sam Animatronic Removed from Jungle Cruise to Remedy "Negative Depictions of Natives"

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

Pertinent quote (emphasis mine): "We look forward to sharing more about the finale to the enhanced storyline and final scene very soon."

Either that's Disney just being Disney (hyping/overhyping everything), or these new touches are going to drive more of the ride than we might have thought (and some of us might have hoped).

Luckily the scenes that are being (or at least the ones I assume) replaced aren't anything to write home about, and are overdue for a change.

And this is an important distinction: Jungle Cruise has never been a ride that's personally meant much of anything to me (beyond appreciating its "classic" status). It's just very difficult to go into these attractions that were designed 60 years ago, snip and trim and alter things, and make the whole still feel organic, hence this new "storyline" structure that is being applied to a ride that, frankly, doesn't need to have one. Because the whole conceit of it from the very beginning (read: visit these great rivers of the world from multiple continents) is nonsensical on its face.

It's just an excuse for us to go on a goofy journey.

The Redhead scene itself is sort of “Eh” to me as all she talks about is run the whole time. There’s nothing else to it really, and that makes me sad. I had hoped it would be better, but since they returned the cave scene, I am not complaining

One of the most baffling things with the redhead scene is that a much, much (MUCH) better version of it is right there within reach. One that could retain several of the iconic original lines of dialogue, give the scene a structure with a pay-off, and make Redd an actual badass pirate not to be trifled with: have Redd be so distracting to the drunk bums at the auction that the auctioneer can't get anywhere with them, they shout the iconic "We wants the redhead," and then she fires a warning shot at them to put them in their place.

It's such an obvious thing that multiple people across multiple message boards were suggesting it from pretty much the very day the new scene debuted.

 

[biggerboat16]

This story contains a quote directly from Disney that I found interesting:

Trader Sam Animatronic Removed from Jungle Cruise to Remedy "Negative Depictions of Natives"

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

Pertinent quote (emphasis mine): "We look forward to sharing more about the finale to the enhanced storyline and final scene very soon."

Either that's Disney just being Disney (hyping/overhyping everything), or these new touches are going to drive more of the ride than we might have thought (and some of us might have hoped).



And this is an important distinction: Jungle Cruise has never been a ride that's personally meant much of anything to me (beyond appreciating its "classic" status). It's just very difficult to go into these attractions that were designed 60 years ago, snip and trim and alter things, and make the whole still feel organic, hence this new "storyline" structure that is being applied to a ride that, frankly, doesn't need to have one. Because the whole conceit of it from the very beginning (read: visit these great rivers of the world from multiple continents) is nonsensical on its face.

It's just an excuse for us to go on a goofy journey.



One of the most baffling things with the redhead scene is that a much, much (MUCH) better version of it is right there within reach. One that could retain several of the iconic original lines of dialogue, give the scene a structure with a pay-off, and make Redd an actual badass pirate not to be trifled with: have Redd be so distracting to the drunk bums at the auction that the auctioneer can't get anywhere with them, they shout the iconic "We wants the redhead," and then she fires a warning shot at them to put them in their place.

It's such an obvious thing that multiple people across multiple message boards were suggesting it from pretty much the very day the new scene debuted.

This story contains a quote directly from Disney that I found interesting:

Trader Sam Animatronic Removed from Jungle Cruise to Remedy "Negative Depictions of Natives"

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

Pertinent quote (emphasis mine): "We look forward to sharing more about the finale to the enhanced storyline and final scene very soon."

Either that's Disney just being Disney (hyping/overhyping everything), or these new touches are going to drive more of the ride than we might have thought (and some of us might have hoped).



And this is an important distinction: Jungle Cruise has never been a ride that's personally meant much of anything to me (beyond appreciating its "classic" status). It's just very difficult to go into these attractions that were designed 60 years ago, snip and trim and alter things, and make the whole still feel organic, hence this new "storyline" structure that is being applied to a ride that, frankly, doesn't need to have one. Because the whole conceit of it from the very beginning (read: visit these great rivers of the world from multiple continents) is nonsensical on its face.

It's just an excuse for us to go on a goofy journey.



One of the most baffling things with the redhead scene is that a much, much (MUCH) better version of it is right there within reach. One that could retain several of the iconic original lines of dialogue, give the scene a structure with a pay-off, and make Redd an actual badass pirate not to be trifled with: have Redd be so distracting to the drunk bums at the auction that the auctioneer can't get anywhere with them, they shout the iconic "We wants the redhead," and then she fires a warning shot at them to put them in their place.

It's such an obvious thing that multiple people across multiple message boards were suggesting it from pretty much the very day the new scene debuted.

I thought I was the only one who ever thought this. Does anyone know the translation of the Paris version? If they were so inclined to change the original scene (you all know my thoughts on that) then they should’ve given us the Paris version of the update but used more original audio, keeping the ‘we wants the redhead!’ line. If there are any French speakers or people with a transcript of the Paris version, does anyone know if they kept the iconic lines and if the changes were only visual?

 

[JoeCamel]

This story contains a quote directly from Disney that I found interesting:

Trader Sam Animatronic Removed from Jungle Cruise to Remedy "Negative Depictions of Natives"

Walt Disney World news, photos, and reviews! We provide you with daily news from the Walt Disney World theme parks and beyond

blogmickey.com

Pertinent quote (emphasis mine): "We look forward to sharing more about the finale to the enhanced storyline and final scene very soon."

Either that's Disney just being Disney (hyping/overhyping everything), or these new touches are going to drive more of the ride than we might have thought (and some of us might have hoped).


It's just an excuse for us to go on a goofy journey

I guess I can open up now. The ending will be the AA saying the names of all onboard as you pass by. The RFID tech is the key to this working.

I heard some very old timers were involved in the development and are very pleased they were able to incorporate this amazing technology. I hope they get the audio sorted soon.