Pandora: World of Avatar General Discussion

[epcyclopedia]

Not to be a cynic, but it didn't really have any real competition. It was mostly going against the VB rides, some assorted coasters, and Fallon.

Eh, existing attractions are a pull too though. Some people haven't come since before Kong or something.

 

[GadgetGuru]

Eh, existing attractions are a pull too though. Some people haven't come since before Kong or something.

I meant for the best new ride. You're completely right for existing attractions.

 

[Mad Dog]

Touring Plans just published their initial statistical analysis of the effect of Pandora on WDW attendance. The bump is fairly weak. Even weaker than the New Fantasy Land bump. And, TP is saying the capacity of the two attractions (FOP, Navii River) combined is maximum 2,900 per hour.From the report..."Based on what we've seen over the past month, it looks like the people that wanted to be among the first to see the new land have come and gone. Now we are just seeing normal attendance at WDW. Seems like people are just cutting back on the visits to DHS & Epcot to spend more time at AK, rather than choosing an extra day at Disney over Universal. So in the battle of Potter vs. Pandora, it seems like Harry is the clear winner at this point in time."
..............Distribution of WDW guests June 8 - June 29

..............................2016.........................2017

Pandora.............. DNA...........................14%
AK (minus Pandora) 19%......................17%
DHS...........................22%.......................18%
Epcot.........................25%.......................19%
MK.............................34%......................32%

 

[Ultranel]

I keep looking at wait times for FoP and I am still wondering if all 4 Theaters are fully operational, and I mean all 4 theaters working at the same time from open to close, not 2 theaters this hour and those 2 others the next, and repeat. If so! then WDC needs to stop these type of rides, they just don't work with the crowd levels for these parks. After seeing Soarin' with perpetual 90 minutes wait everyday for years after years. I thought FoP would fix that problem but these 120+ wait times are awful if all 4 are fully operational.

 

[Mad Dog]

I keep looking at wait times for FoP and I am still wondering if all 4 Theaters are fully operational, and I mean all 4 theaters working at the same time from open to close, not 2 theaters this hour and those 2 others the next, and repeat. If so! then WDC needs to stop these type of rides, they just don't work with the crowd levels for these parks. After seeing Soarin' with perpetual 90 minutes wait everyday for years after years. I thought FoP would fix that problem but these 120+ wait times are awful if all 4 are fully operational.

Even when all four theaters are running at maximum, the capacity is just around 1400 an hour at most, if everything flows perfect. Disney just doesn't seem to put capacity at the forefront of their new attractions anymore, which is sad....Universal, on the other hand, has really large capacity for all of their recent big attractions (HE, Gringotts, Kong, Transformers, Fallon, Forbidden Journey).

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I keep looking at wait times for FoP and I am still wondering if all 4 Theaters are fully operational, and I mean all 4 theaters working at the same time from open to close, not 2 theaters this hour and those 2 others the next, and repeat. If so! then WDC needs to stop these type of rides, they just don't work with the crowd levels for these parks. After seeing Soarin' with perpetual 90 minutes wait everyday for years after years. I thought FoP would fix that problem but these 120+ wait times are awful if all 4 are fully operational.

General rule of thumb is anything around an hour is at full capacity. Spikes to 120+ minutes mean one or more theaters has gone down.

 

[rhino4evr]

Touring Plans just published their initial statistical analysis of the effect of Pandora on WDW attendance. The bump is fairly weak. Even weaker than the New Fantasy Land bump. And, TP is saying the capacity of the two attractions (FOP, Navii River) combined is maximum 2,900 per hour.From the report..."Based on what we've seen over the past month, it looks like the people that wanted to be among the first to see the new land have come and gone. Now we are just seeing normal attendance at WDW. Seems like people are just cutting back on the visits to DHS & Epcot to spend more time at AK, rather than choosing an extra day at Disney over Universal. So in the battle of Potter vs. Pandora, it seems like Harry is the clear winner at this point in time."
..............Distribution of WDW guests June 8 - June 29

..............................2016.........................2017

Pandora.............. DNA...........................14%
AK (minus Pandora) 19%......................17%
DHS...........................22%.......................18%
Epcot.........................25%.......................19%
MK.............................34%......................32%

this is pretty much what I expected. This was never going to come close to the Potter "effect'. Although I'm curious how well Merch is doing compared to last year. I bet that's increased a bit.

 

[Ultranel]

Even when all four theaters are running at maximum, the capacity is just around 1400 an hour at most, if everything flows perfect. Disney just doesn't seem to put capacity at the forefront of their new attractions anymore, which is sad....Universal, on the other hand, has really large capacity for all of their recent big attractions (HE, Gringotts, Kong, Transformers, Fallon, Forbidden Journey).

:doh: OMG! When I worked MIB, we use to load between 1500-1600 guest an hour. So not even 3 months old and this thing is obsolete.... If this is Avatar, I can't even think how SWL will be. Won't be surprised if they set a goal of 1000 an hour for the Falcon Ride.

 

[Ultranel]

General rule of thumb is anything around an hour is at full capacity. Spikes to 120+ minutes mean one or more theaters has gone down.

Well I guess theaters have been down all week... All I've seen is 120+ for the past 2 weeks (maybe one time I saw a 110) NRJ different story, I've seen 40mins there... I might have to wait to SWL to ride this, oh well!

 

[Nick]

Mostly as expected.

I think it was @Andy who said that while Pandora probably won't bring in new crowds to the resort as a whole, it could do a lot for DAK in the long haul since it adds more to do at the park and people will stay longer. The longer guests stay at the parks, the more money they spend.

I think that's probably the best way to look at this for now. I think it's probably going to take until the DHS additions and Epcot changes are on line to see what kind of effect WDW has seen from these additions.

 

[UAN17]

^ I agree.

Pandora in my eyes is the most impressive themed area in the world, and FoP is a true great headliner. But I wouldn't book a trip to Orlando to see it again on its own. Collectively, once Disney sort out Epcot and DHS, and hopefully expand MK, it would be enough for me to not stay on I drive but instead stay in a good Disney hotel close to the action.

This is the first part of the correction in what has been a disasterous decade for Disney World.

 

[Mad Dog]

this is pretty much what I expected. This was never going to come close to the Potter "effect'. Although I'm curious how well Merch is doing compared to last year. I bet that's increased a bit.

Yes, just as I was saying too. I predicted before it opened, though I was hoping that I would be wrong, that it would be more along the lines of an NFL increase at best. Those people that were expecting CarsLand numbers were just being too optimistic. It actually did well those first few weeks it was opening, but those numbers were probably inflated by locals. Once June hit, it settled into a take attendance away from the other parks mode....A weak IP probably hurt it. I expect Star Wars to bring in good attendance gains. This just goes to show how important IP's are in today's theme park world.....But Pandora is an artistic success, but not one that will ever make a good return on it's investment.

 

[UNIrd]

Even when all four theaters are running at maximum, the capacity is just around 1400 an hour at most, if everything flows perfect. Disney just doesn't seem to put capacity at the forefront of their new attractions anymore, which is sad....Universal, on the other hand, has really large capacity for all of their recent big attractions (HE, Gringotts, Kong, Transformers, Fallon, Forbidden Journey).

Disney doesn't give a rat's ass about capacity with their new attractions. FP+ it or good luck.

I wonder how many people are visiting DAK and missing the Pandora rides, Epcot and missing Frozen, and MK and missing Seven Dwarves Mine Train? I can't imagine that doesn't have a negative impact on the overall guest experience.

 

[Mad Dog]

Disney doesn't give a rat's ass about capacity with their new attractions. FP+ it or good luck.

I wonder how many people are visiting DAK and missing the Pandora rides, Epcot and missing Frozen, and MK and missing Seven Dwarves Mine Train? I can't imagine that doesn't have a negative impact on the overall guest experience.

You're right on. We went to Epcot in May. Couldn't ride Frozen since we couldn't get a Fast Pass. We went to MK too, and couldn't ride 7 Dwarfs because we couldn't get a fastpass. Both attractions have low capacity and I'm not crazy enough to stand in a line for a hour or two for a two to four minute ride. :doh:...and this from the company (Disney) that used to build high capacity people eater attractions, that had low stand by lines before fastpass+.

 

[Blaw923]

You're right on. We went to Epcot in May. Couldn't ride Frozen since we couldn't get a Fast Pass. We went to MK too, and couldn't ride 7 Dwarfs because we couldn't get a fastpass. Both attractions have low capacity and I'm not crazy enough to stand in a line for a hour or two for a two to four minute ride. :doh:...and this from the company (Disney) that used to build high capacity people eater attractions, that had low stand by lines before fastpass+.

You bring up a great debate point. I wonder how these new rides would compare if you worked out the inflation of guest capacity they allow in the parks now versus when big ticket attraction opened in the past?

Sure Kong is a people eater some will say. But I'm not looking for every ride I go on in the future to be a yellow school bus essentially.

This leads down a whole other wormhole that theme parks now will stuff everyone they can and their grandmother into the parts as long as they pay at the gate. Could this be something that changes? My assumption would be hell no.

 

[Nick]

Disney doesn't give a rat's ass about capacity with their new attractions. FP+ it or good luck.

I wonder how many people are visiting DAK and missing the Pandora rides, Epcot and missing Frozen, and MK and missing Seven Dwarves Mine Train? I can't imagine that doesn't have a negative impact on the overall guest experience.

True in some respects but at the same time Mermaid has an incredibly high capacity and Rat will have a capacity of 2200. FoPs theoretical capacity is actually not bad, but the numbers they are currently doing aren't getting the job done.

NRJ though is just plain low capacity, though.

 

[UNIrd]

True in some respects but at the same time LM has an incredibly high capacity and Rat will have a capacity of 2200. FoPs theoretical capacity is actually not bad, but the numbers they are currently doing aren't getting the job done.

NRJ though is just plain low capacity, though.

LM is a clamshell omnimover though. We know those are high capacity because history has shown us this. They've been around since the 60's. But "new" attractions...

 

[Nick]

LM is a clamshell omnimover though. We know those are high capacity because history has shown us this. They've been around since the 60's. But "new" attractions...

The only attractions I'd consider "new" at WDW since Mine Train is FoP and NRJ. That wasn't a new attraction.... they retrofitted a new IP into an old, low capacity ride. Is that Disney's fault? Absolutely - it should've been built from ground up.

But FEA was as new of a ride as Soarin 2.0 and TT 2.0 were. Same building, same track, same basic experience, just remodeled with something different to look at.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Road Flight of Passage with a friend - big HHN buff (booking all of her tours and such for opening weekend as we speak) - and she really liked the land and the ride.

We spent roughly the two hours posted in line and it never came to a full stop. There were moments where I was a bit bored but in general it moved and often had something to look at. Still wish it had area music. She thought everything looked great and kept commenting that it was very pretty.

Here's how the queue played out for pacing - and we started a few yards inside after the wait time sign and a posted wait of 125 mins.

6:25 enter line

6:50 caves

7:20 rda

8:00 lab

8:22 link chamber holding ramps

829 preshow 1

835 preshow 2

8:48 exit

As you can see.. preshow 1 had the yucky holding sequence. It's good to see their waits are very close to actual time. Around me the people kept looking for ways out of line and more than once wandered off down a hall or something only to come back a few minutes later.

If the wait is 2 hours and you're at 1:30 why bail? If we hadn't moved I could see it. But we moved pretty steadily.

And I'm not sure if all theaters were running, though I'm positive two were, if not three. But they were skipping a lot of individual seats. Everything in the empty chair next to me they skipped seemed to work - unlike first time I rode and I could see the screen fritz out on my friend's chair during loading. Dunno why they were skipped.

Edit: And there were definitely 3 theaters working. One loaded as we were on the ramp, then folks were directed to ours, then a second theater (A, I think) popped open and they started sending larger parties there but our party of 2 was sent to C as it finished loading. I think B is the one that loaded as we went up the ramp. So D might have been down.

As for skipping shows between to have more load time - not in C. We had guests leaving as we entered the chamber and guests coming in as we left.

 

[1up]

LM is a clamshell omnimover though. We know those are high capacity because history has shown us this. They've been around since the 60's. But "new" attractions...

NRJ should also be huge capacity as well. I mean pirates and it's a small world are river boat rides with decent capacity. Wonder what slows down NRJ.