Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[tankart150]

I think you are putting too much credit into the fans.
__

A little note, looks like Finn got a cosmetic overhaul.

There is no point in retelling the same exact stories that brought them success in the first place

 

[Nick]

There is no point in retelling the same exact stories that brought them success in the first place

So you're saying that TLJ was a retelling of ESB, then? :huh:

There's no winning with SW fans. Do something similar/familiar and it's labeled too safe. Do something different and completely different from any other SW movie in the Episodic films (after they cried about TFA being too similar to ANH) and they get bashed for being too creative.

I don't mind if you prefer they choose one path or the other, but make up your damn minds. You either want something new or you don't. Judging by the fan reaction to TLJ, most DON'T want something different, despite how much they want to tell themselves they do.

 

[Brian G.]

I'm in the weird spot where I loved the creative risks TLJ but was upset with some of the story choices.

 

[Nick]

I'm in the weird spot where I loved the creative risks TLJ but was upset with some of the story choices.

I'm not sure what story choices you're referring too, but I can still relate to what you're saying. I commend Rian Johnson for taking the risks he did and I think many of them worked.

Things like Superman Leia though is just one example of where I think it was a misfire. I'm not in the bunch that didn't like where they went with Luke's story - I actually liked his storyline for the most part. I didn't like that Rian closed up so many plot points or that they once again built Phasma up to be this big baddie only for it to be another let down. The casino thing didn't really work for me either and I don't much care for Rose. They way they used Maz Kanata was disappointing, too.

But I still enjoyed the movie quite a bit and the movie packed quite a few surprises into it. I will say the movie is a bit long so repeat viewings aren't the easiest watch, but I do think that many who watched it once and then went online with this faux outrage need to find 2.5 hours to watch it again sometime and see how you feel about it (the movie is on Netflix currently). It's a movie that certainly left me speechless after first viewing, but it holds up on repeat viewings.

 

[Scott W.]

I'm in the weird spot where I loved the creative risks TLJ but was upset with some of the story choices.

This is where I'm at.

The weird thing about TLJ is that overall I didn't really enjoy it but it had some of the best Star Wars moments ever. I think it was an important movie in the franchise as it shifts the direction of the movies and as more movies are released, TLJ will become more important and better viewed.

 

[Nick]

This is where I'm at.

The weird thing about TLJ is that overall I didn't really enjoy it but it had some of the best Star Wars moments ever. I think it was an important movie in the franchise as it shifts the direction of the movies and as more movies are released, TLJ will become more important and better viewed.

I'm not quite sure if they will continue past Episode 9 with this cast of characters. All of the actors have expressed that they want a break from the franchise after 9 and Disney already has two other trilogies lined up. I think maybe 10 or so years down the road we may see a continuation of the saga, but I feel like, even with Disney, they have enough Star Wars stuff going on that they would be willing to let it rest for awhile.

 

[tankart150]

So you're saying that TLJ was a retelling of ESB, then? :huh:

There's no winning with SW fans. Do something similar/familiar and it's labeled too safe. Do something different and completely different from any other SW movie in the Episodic films (after they cried about TFA being too similar to ANH) and they get bashed for being too creative.

I don't mind if you prefer they choose one path or the other, but make up your damn minds. You either want something new or you don't. Judging by the fan reaction to TLJ, most DON'T want something different, despite how much they want to tell themselves they do.

I haven’t seen Last Jedi yet but I would prefer a creative route taken like the prequels. They need to innovate.
Also, I still don’t understand the reasoning behind Hermit Luke in the sequels. How would you feel if all of the Avengers just sat in the middle of a campfire and told nursery rhymes all day? Seriously, it’s that messed up.

 

[Nick]

I haven’t seen Last Jedi yet but I would prefer a creative route taken like the prequels. They need to innovate.
Also, I still don’t understand the reasoning behind Hermit Luke in the sequels. How would you feel if all of the Avengers just sat in the middle of a campfire and told nursery rhymes all day? Seriously, it’s that messed up.

The Avengers aren't 60-ish years old.

The way i've always looked at it, people change over time. Luke changed the second he killed his father in RotJ. Luke was never going to be the same person he was in the Original Trilogy and I think to expect that was a pipe dream. Luke did try to train others to fight the Empire, but it all went wrong with Ben Solo. He screwed up bad and let his Sister and Brother-in-law down. Kylo turned out to be exactly what Luke was trying to fight against.

It's a very human story. As we make mistakes and as we age, we make choices based on those mistakes, etc. This is all how he turned into the person he is in the current movies. I think they've developed his character very well, tbh.

 

[belloq87]

I think there's a vast gulf between "Don't let Luke Skywalker change at all!" and "Have Luke Skywalker be a broken failure who's given up on everything!" For my money, Rian Johnson went too far in one direction with Luke when there could have been a better balance to be struck.

You could have still had Luke feeling guilty about what happened with Ben Solo, responsible, angry and ambivalent about the Jedi, while still also having him be a proactive character who is trying to make things right.

 

[OLSinFLA]

I'm not quite sure if they will continue past Episode 9 with this cast of characters. All of the actors have expressed that they want a break from the franchise after 9 and Disney already has two other trilogies lined up. I think maybe 10 or so years down the road we may see a continuation of the saga, but I feel like, even with Disney, they have enough Star Wars stuff going on that they would be willing to let it rest for awhile.

They've already stated this trilogy is the end for all of these characters. Future trilogies will not be part of the "Skywalker" saga

 

[Nick]

They've already stated this trilogy is the end for all of these characters. Future trilogies will not be part of the "Skywalker" saga

Which it should be the end, anyway. This was always the story of the Skywalker family and even in the sequels, it still is in many ways. But mostly, the story was always about Anakin/Vader, Luke, Leia and Han. All have died in the movies, despite Luke and Leia both being in Episode IX.

It's time to move on to another part of the galaxy.

 

[OLSinFLA]

Its little things that make my old time film viewer happy - like that not only is Episode IX being done on film (yay!) but its being shot in 70mm. Now if AMC Disney Springs would just put those 70mm projectors back in they used for Hateful Eight and Dunkirk
....

 

[tankart150]

They've already stated this trilogy is the end for all of these characters. Future trilogies will not be part of the "Skywalker" saga

Then it should be considered a spin off, not main storyline.

Honestly, the way Disney treats this franchise just baffles me. It’s the ‘Citizen Kane’ of franchises, why don’t they know that!!!!!

 

[JunoSynth]

The Avengers aren't 60-ish years old.

The way i've always looked at it, people change over time. Luke changed the second he killed his father in RotJ. Luke was never going to be the same person he was in the Original Trilogy and I think to expect that was a pipe dream. Luke did try to train others to fight the Empire, but it all went wrong with Ben Solo. He screwed up bad and let his Sister and Brother-in-law down. Kylo turned out to be exactly what Luke was trying to fight against.

It's a very human story. As we make mistakes and as we age, we make choices based on those mistakes, etc. This is all how he turned into the person he is in the current movies. I think they've developed his character very well, tbh.

Yeah but this is not what a lot of fans wanted. The prequels were not perfect but at least George knew what the fans wanted and gave them that (ex. Emperor/Yoda fighting). TLJ had hardly any fan service at all. The only thing I can think of is Yoda. Rian Johnson purposely wanted to split/piss off the fans and this is a dumb IMO.

It would be like some famous band purposely removing some of their biggest hits at their concert just to piss off fans.

Starts at 1:07

 

[Nick]

Yeah but this is not what a lot of fans wanted. The prequels were not perfect but at least George knew what the fans wanted and gave them that (ex. Emperor/Yoda fighting). TLJ had hardly any fan service at all. The only thing I can think of is Yoda. Rian Johnson purposely wanted to split/piss off the fans and this is a dumb IMO.

It would be like some famous band purposely removing some of their biggest hits at their concert just to piss off fans.

Starts at 1:07

A good movie is not made with "fan service" on the mind. Actually, many complained about that with TFA.

 

[JunoSynth]

A good movie is not made with "fan service" on the mind. Actually, many complained about that with TFA.

I never said it did. But it's something you should keep in mind if you have them. Your fans are what brought you there. And you should not purposely piss them off like he did.

 

[Nick]

I never said it did. But it's something you should keep in mind if you have them. Your fans are what brought you there. And you should not purposely piss them off like he did.

I'm pretty sure he didn't purposely piss SW fans off.

He brought HIS vision to the franchise. Lucasfilm was in so much of a rush to release these films that they couldn't lock down JJ Abrahms for all three films because of how quickly they wanted to pump out this trilogy. There was also no vision for this trilogy - they've had different writers on all three films.

You can dislike how Rian went about Episode 8, but he created his Star Wars film (and many actually like it despite a narrative that everyone hates it). Kathleen Kennedy is the one to blame if you really want to be mad at someone for mismanagement.

 

[OLSinFLA]

Yeah but this is not what a lot of fans wanted. The prequels were not perfect but at least George knew what the fans wanted and gave them that (ex. Emperor/Yoda fighting). TLJ had hardly any fan service at all. The only thing I can think of is Yoda. Rian Johnson purposely wanted to split/piss off the fans and this is a dumb IMO.

It would be like some famous band purposely removing some of their biggest hits at their concert just to piss off fans.

Starts at 1:07

George went fanboy and gave some of the worst films (never mind worst SW films) made, hurting his own image as a director. TLJ said we're a movie, not fanfic, and follow along if you like. We're not playing the same song again. You want a musical group reference? Probably the greatest would be The Beatles, who kept changing their sound and demanded if you're a fan, keep up or get out.

 

[JunoSynth]

I'm pretty sure he didn't purposely piss SW fans off.

Yes he did. The video I posted is proof. He wants to intentionally divide people on his movies. He says he wants half the people watching his movies say "It was the worst movie I've ever seen"

How else are you supposed to go about getting fans to hate your Star Wars movie? You piss them off by not meeting some of their expectations. The majority of pissed off fans are mad for this exact reason. He knew exactly what he was doing.

If this video didn't exist then I probably wouldn't believe it either but the evidence just too overwhelming at this point.

KK is a whole other issue but I won't get into that. Rumor is she's on her way out the door though.

George went fanboy and gave some of the worst films (never mind worst SW films) made, hurting his own image as a director. TLJ said we're a movie, not fanfic, and follow along if you like. We're not playing the same song again. You want a musical group reference? Probably the greatest would be The Beatles, who kept changing their sound and demanded if you're a fan, keep up or get out.

I'm not saying the prequels were prefect. They were pretty bad in a lot of areas. But they did have a lot of what fans wanted. That's all I'm saying.

I'm in total agreement of what direction they wanted in TLJ. My argument is TLJ also said lets piss off some fans along the way to divide them.

Evolving your sound is very common with a lot of music groups and not the same as purposely not playing hits to piss off the crowd and divide them like my analogy.

 

[Nick]

Yes he did. The video I posted is proof. He wants to intentionally divide people on his movies. He says he wants half the people watching his movies say "It was the worst movie I've ever seen"

How else are you supposed to go about getting fans to hate your Star Wars movie? You piss them off by not meeting some of their expectations. The majority of pissed off fans are mad for this exact reason. He knew exactly what he was doing.

If this video didn't exist then I probably wouldn't believe it either but the evidence just too overwhelming at this point.

I can't say I agree with anything you said.

I watched the video and to me it just speaks to how creative he is and creativity usually breads division. Again, he came in to make HIS STAR WARS MOVIE. He wanted to put his stamp on it. His directorial vision is one that breads unique film making... which is why half of the fan base didn't like it. They wanted more of the same.

Let's not fall down the tin foil hat rabbit hole.

I'm not saying the prequels were prefect. They were pretty bad in a lot of areas. But they did have a lot of what fans wanted. That's all I'm saying.

I'm in total agreement of what direction they wanted in TLJ. My argument is TLJ also said lets piss off some fans along the way to divide them.

Evolving your sound is very common with a lot of music groups and not the same as purposely not playing hits to piss off the crowd and divide them like my analogy.

WHO CARES IF THEY HAD WHAT FANS WANTED.

What fans want often would make for a terrible movie and it showed in the prequels. Directors aren't put in place to give fans what they want, they are put in place to make a good movie. George Lucas obviously was putting himself in the chair at that time so it didn't matter, but he made crappy movies in the prequel trilogy. It's not even really a debate.