Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[TheGentTrent]

I will agree with everyone saying reviews are subjective and that you should make your own opinion. A 52% on Rotten Tomatoes didn’t stop me from loving Kingsman: The Golden Circle.

I also enjoy the hell out of Along Came Polly and that only has a 26%.

 

[belloq87]

I understand it to a point. Rian ended a lot of arcs and while the film was great imo, I think Rian would've been a better director to have direct Episode 9 and close it out rather than Episode 8 where the movie as a whole was great, but it didn't leave a ton open for Episode 9 to work with and conclude in just one film satisfyingly.

I agree with everything here (but the bolded bits! ).

I don’t think Rian Johnson did a very good job of making the eighth installment of a nine installment story. He left few/no strands to build towards an interesting culmination in the climactic Episode because he resolved basically everything. He needed to propel the story into IX; instead, he just told a story that happened to be the eighth movement out of nine. The middle chapter should position the pieces for the climax, not swipe the pieces off the board (in a dramatic -- not literal -- sense).

Consider the drama and intrigue still left unresolved at the end of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: Han is captured. Luke is emotionally, spiritually, and physically defeated. Both of those angles send you out of the movie eagerly wanting to see how they're going to play out.

Heck, even ATTACK OF THE CLONES (and no, I'm not saying THE LAST JEDI is worse than AOTC) ends with the Clone Wars kicking into high gear and Anakin and Padme having a forbidden marriage.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

He absolutely answers who Rey is. Rey is no one, dumped on a dessert planet by her good for nothing parents. And that's not "who she is" it's "where she came from".

As for Snoke, who cares? What answers does the OT give for Palpatine? None. He's just the big bad who gets tossed down a reactor shaft in the end.



Again, ludicrous when it comes to Rey. Who her parents are has nothing to do with who she is. We know who she is. She's one of the most well developed and best characters these movies have ever seen between TFA and TLJ.



He's a metaphor for what one of the themes of the movie is. nothing more. It's a period on the movie.



I mean minus the fact that one of our main characters is now the Supreme Leader of the galaxy's strongest military and our heroes are now alone and searching for hope, sure, it felt finished.



Reviews are important ways for people to judge whether to see a movie. People can disagree with them all they want in the end, but when going to a movie costs like 60 dollars minimum for a family of 4, people want to know something is worthwhile before dropping that kind of cash.

I cannot remember which interviews I've read, and its not a spoiler or anything, but it didn't sound like Rey's parents storyline is finished. JJ even said so. They seemed to indicate we'd find out exactly who they are. I also took that moment in the film to be Kylo telling her she's trash, her parents are trash, so join me! Thats just how I perceived things. We don't know who she is, who is she? Seriously, tell me. She's from Jakkuu and her parents are nothing and she somehow has all these force powers. She is a great and rootable character but her back story is still incredibly fuzzy. If "anyone" can be a Jedi I like that, but JJ indicated thats not the direction its headed. We'll see Thursdays. Im fine if thats her backstory, but if thats the answer to her parents it felt unsatisfying. Not in the fact that she's not related to anyone, just the way it was presented.
There were no answers for OT Palpatine agreed. In the 8th film, you shouldn't just kill a random villain who's been set up as the main villain for the trilogy. Left us with too many questions. Not thought provoking ones, more like, HUH? Just my opinion.

 

[JungleSkip]

Consider the drama and intrigue still left unresolved at the end of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: Han is captured. Luke is emotionally, spiritually, and physically defeated. Both of those angles send you out of the movie eagerly wanting to see how they're going to play out.

At the end of TLJ the Resistance is more or less a dozen people on the Falcon and Kylo Ren is an all powerful Dark Side ruler. If that doesn't leave you eager to see what happens...I dunno. I don't get it. lol

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

I agree with everything here (but the bolded bits! ).

I don’t think Rian Johnson did a very good job of making the eighth installment of a nine installment story. He left few/no strands to build towards an interesting culmination in the climactic Episode because he resolved basically everything. He needed to propel the story into IX; instead, he just told a story that happened to be the eighth movement out of nine. The middle chapter should position the pieces for the climax, not swipe the pieces off the board (in a dramatic -- not literal -- sense).

Consider the drama and intrigue still left unresolved at the end of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK: Han is captured. Luke is emotionally, spiritually, and physically defeated. Both of those angles send you out of the movie eagerly wanting to see how they're going to play out.

Heck, even ATTACK OF THE CLONES (and no, I'm not saying THE LAST JEDI is worse than AOTC) ends with the Clone Wars kicking into high gear and Anakin and Padme having a forbidden marriage.

THIS THIS THIS! I love it as a stand alone film but as the 8th film, and final film before THE finale film, it doesn't work totally. He should've done episode 9. If he does a trilogy on his own someday, that'd be a must watch for me.

 

[Brian G.]

I'd argue the time for that was TFA.

But again, we never learn how Palpatine came to power until the prequels. I just think it's largely meaningless. Who cares how he came to power? He and the First Order are the threat to deal with, not how he came to be.

I'd agree that TFA, or at least TLJ, was the time.

The reason it matters more than Palpatine is because of, again, the 6 previous movies and what has been established. We spent 3 movies in the OT seeing our heroes overthrow the Empire. The prequels *ahem* added weight to Palpatine's Rise and helped establish how powerful he was, bolstering his evil in the OT. If this was it's own thing, sure - but it's the last third of a 9-film saga. I just don't like I don't have an answer as to how a new character emerged from the Empire's ashes other than the new trilogy needed a bad guy.

 

[WaterToWade]

Curious to see how blood and

I will agree with everyone saying reviews are subjective and that you should make your own opinion. A 52% on Rotten Tomatoes didn’t stop me from loving Kingsman: The Golden Circle.

I also enjoy the hell out of Along Came Polly and that only has a 26%.

As someone who loved the clue movie as a kid I second this

 

[JungleSkip]

I cannot remember which interviews I've read, and its not a spoiler or anything, but it didn't sound like Rey's parents storyline is finished. JJ even said so. They seemed to indicate we'd find out exactly who they are.

Well yea because JJ decided he wanted to retcon RJ's movie.

I also took that moment in the film to be Kylo telling her she's trash, her parents are trash, so join me! Thats just how I perceived things. We don't know who she is, who is she? Seriously, tell me. She's from Jakkuu and her parents are nothing and she somehow has all these force powers. She is a great and rootable character but her back story is still incredibly fuzzy. If "anyone" can be a Jedi I like that, but JJ indicated thats not the direction its headed. We'll see Thursdays. Im fine if thats her backstory, but if thats the answer to her parents it felt unsatisfying. Not in the fact that she's not related to anyone, just the way it was presented.

"Backstory" is not character. You're confusing the two. And yes, Rian's goal was to make it clear that *anyone* could have been the hero. It doesn't have to be some chosen one rote character. But Rey is a determined, if not insecure, character looking for a family. Her story (through the first two) is finding the place where she belongs because her parents abandoned her in a desert in the care of more or less a slave driver. So she learned to fend for herself, but even through all that all she wants is a family. It's why she clings to Han, then hopes Luke can be that father, then explores the possibility of Kylo being that.

There were no answers for OT Palpatine agreed. In the 8th film, you shouldn't just kill a random villain who's been set up as the main villain for the trilogy. Left us with too many questions. Not thought provoking ones, more like, HUH? Just my opinion.

Because Snoke *isn't* the main villain. Kylo is. Or at least was clearly meant to be. Like, I can understand wanting more Snoke backstory. I can't understand that being a huge negative against a movie. Especially when that kind of stuff is more suited for a book or comic or something

 

[belloq87]

I think they should've at least spent a few moments trying to clarify how Snoke came to power only due to the fact that we got 6 movies dedicated to the rise and fall of the original Empire. We'll see if Ep 9 answers that.

I'd argue the time for that was TFA.

But again, we never learn how Palpatine came to power until the prequels. I just think it's largely meaningless. Who cares how he came to power? He and the First Order are the threat to deal with, not how he came to be.

Snoke's backstory is extremely relevant, because he's the catalyst that destroys the "happy ending" of RETURN OF THE JEDI. He's ultimately what rendered our classic heroes a bunch of broken failures. I don't think anybody's saying there needed to be a 20-minute flashback/mini-biography of the guy that stops the movie cold, but the following questions should have been addressed in some fashion:

1. Where was this very old, very powerful Dark Side user during the Original Trilogy, and why was he not involved?
2. How did he come to be in control of the First Order, which (per the BLOODLINE book) nobody in the New Republic seems to be aware even exists a mere 6 years before THE FORCE AWAKENS?
3. How was he able to be in a position to corrupt/seduce/influence Ben Solo? Was he a family friend? A known politician acquaintance of Leia's who, like Palpatine, pretended to be on the up-and-up? Or was his hold over Ben purely a long-distance "I'm connecting our minds through the Force" thing?

At the end of TLJ the Resistance is more or less a dozen people on the Falcon and Kylo Ren is an all powerful Dark Side ruler. If that doesn't leave you eager to see what happens...I dunno. I don't get it. lol

Yeah, eager is definitely not the word I would use to describe how I felt leaving the theater! After watching Luke Skywalker die on screen, deflated is much closer to what I was feeling.

As for Kylo Ren being all powerful, I'm not sure I'd use that phrase, either! He's been constantly beaten and/or humiliated for two films by Rey, Snoke, and Luke. I don't see him as much of a threat (and, clearly, neither did Abrams, since they had to dig up the Emperor again to be the "big bad").

Don't get me wrong, I love Kylo Ren as a character. I think he's arguably the most interesting and complex of the entire Saga... but it's not because I find him to be a credible threat to the heroes.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Well yea because JJ decided he wanted to retcon RJ's movie.



"Backstory" is not character. You're confusing the two. And yes, Rian's goal was to make it clear that *anyone* could have been the hero. It doesn't have to be some chosen one rote character. But Rey is a determined, if not insecure, character looking for a family. Her story (through the first two) is finding the place where she belongs because her parents abandoned her in a desert in the care of more or less a slave driver. So she learned to fend for herself, but even through all that all she wants is a family. It's why she clings to Han, then hopes Luke can be that father, then explores the possibility of Kylo being that.



Because Snoke *isn't* the main villain. Kylo is. Or at least was clearly meant to be. Like, I can understand wanting more Snoke backstory. I can't understand that being a huge negative against a movie. Especially when that kind of stuff is more suited for a book or comic or something

I get what you're saying with Rey, and I agree its great and interesting. Our disconnect comes from the fact that if you spend a good amount of the first film setting up her backstory, or send the character on a quest to find herself, to not really give us one, its felt like a bit of a waste. She's a wonderful character, but I just don't think that the parents thing is done. So we don't know who she is really. If JJ is retcon'ing TLJ then again, we don't know who her parents are. I hope JJ just sticks with it but I'm not sure he will. That was like the main question coming from TFA.

I guess thats more it, just wanting more back story on Snoke. I know backstory doesn't = character, but it sure as hell helps when there's a mysterious villain we have no idea why we should be afraid of. The death was much less impactful and was more just shocking.

As stated, I think TLJ just doesn't fit incredibly well for a 2nd film in a trilogy. Thats always been my take on it. Its in no way bad, if anything its the most thought provoking and shocking Star Wars film ever, but Star Wars rides on nostalgia. Having an entire film subvert expectations was never good for the fan base. I personally enjoyed myself, but I see the problems with the film in the grand scheme of things.

All this being said and thinking more and more about TLJ over the last few days, God I hope Rian Johnson can get his own trilogy. I think that could be the work of magic.

 

[JungleSkip]

Snoke's backstory is extremely relevant, because he's the catalyst that destroys the "happy ending" of RETURN OF THE JEDI. He's ultimately what rendered our classic heroes a bunch of broken failures. I don't think anybody's saying there needed to be a 20-minute flashback/mini-biography of the guy that stops the movie cold, but the following questions should have been addressed in some fashion:

1. Where was this very old, very powerful Dark Side user during the Original Trilogy, and why was he not involved?
2. How did he come to be in control of the First Order, which (per the BLOODLINE book) nobody in the New Republic seems to be aware even exists a mere 6 years before THE FORCE AWAKENS?
3. How was he able to be in a position to corrupt/seduce/influence Ben Solo? Was he a family friend? A known politician acquaintance of Leia's who, like Palpatine, pretended to be on the up-and-up? Or was his hold over Ben purely a long-distance "I'm connecting our minds through the Force" thing?

I guess I personally don't care about literally any of that because it's not relevant to the drama these stories were telling.

Yeah, eager is definitely not the word I would use to describe how I felt leaving the theater! After watching Luke Skywalker die on screen, deflated is much closer to what I was feeling.

As for Kylo Ren being all powerful, I'm not sure I'd use that phrase, either! He's been constantly beaten and/or humiliated for two films by Rey, Snoke, and Luke. I don't see him as much of a threat (and, clearly, neither did Abrams, since they had to dig up the Emperor again to be the "big bad").

Don't get me wrong, I love Kylo Ren as a character. I think he's arguably the most interesting and complex of the entire Saga... but it's not because I find him to be a credible threat to the heroes.

*shrug* I'd rather have an interesting character as my main antagonist than worrying about whether he was going to kill Rey (because lol of course Rey isn't gonna die in the end). I'm more invested in the drama than whether the characters will live or die, because obviously the main heroes are gonna survive.

I guess thats more it, just wanting more back story on Snoke. I know backstory doesn't = character, but it sure as hell helps when there's a mysterious villain we have no idea why we should be afraid of. The death was much less impactful and was more just shocking.

I mean, same reason you should be afraid of the Emperor in ROTJ. Because he's a powerful dark side force user who controls the galaxy's most powerful military.

Having an entire film subvert expectations was never good for the fan base.

Again, I'll argue that Empire Strikes Back does the exact same thing. We've just been watching Empire for almost 20 years.

All this being said and thinking more and more about TLJ over the last few days, God I hope Rian Johnson can get his own trilogy. I think that could be the work of magic.

I think after the press tour for TROS basically tarred and feathered him, and what I'e heard actually happens in the movie, I would not be surprised to see RJ tell LucasFilm to take a hike.

 

[Brian G.]

I guess I personally don't care about literally any of that because it's not relevant to the drama these stories were telling.

I mean... it kinda is...

 

[JungleSkip]

I mean... it kinda is...

I don't see it. How Snoke came to power has nothing to do with Rey's search for a family or Kylo's journey to find who he really is. We know the important pieces. He rose to power, launched an attack on the galaxy, and turned Kylo Ren to the dark side. We don't need to know anything else to inform the drama of the movies.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

I mean... it kinda is...

Especially since Palpatine is apparently back, or seems to be back in some format.

I guess I personally don't care about literally any of that because it's not relevant to the drama these stories were telling.



*shrug* I'd rather have an interesting character as my main antagonist than worrying about whether he was going to kill Rey (because lol of course Rey isn't gonna die in the end). I'm more invested in the drama than whether the characters will live or die, because obviously the main heroes are gonna survive.



I mean, same reason you should be afraid of the Emperor in ROTJ. Because he's a powerful dark side force user who controls the galaxy's most powerful military.



Again, I'll argue that Empire Strikes Back does the exact same thing. We've just been watching Empire for almost 20 years.



I think after the press tour for TROS basically tarred and feathered him, and what I'e heard actually happens in the movie, I would not be surprised to see RJ tell LucasFilm to take a hike.

Now I wasn't alive but am a bit of a film buff, to my knowledge, the twists in Empire were unlike any twists any major film has had before it. They were new to cinema. In 2017, doing that for an entire film for a series that relies on nostalgia was risky. Of course not everything is going to go as expected nor should it, but the ENTIRE thing? Risky.

Also im sensitive to spoilers so just be careful with that last statement. I know that may just be a me thing but just saying. Clearly you're a major TLJ supporter lol. Nothing wrong with that, but just saying if you know spoilers for ROS then we shouldn't be arguing these things lol.

 

[JungleSkip]

Now I wasn't alive but am a bit of a film buff, to my knowledge, the twists in Empire were unlike any twists any major film has had before it. They were new to cinema. In 2017, doing that for an entire film for a series that relies on nostalgia was risky. Of course not everything is going to go as expected nor should it, but the ENTIRE thing? Risky.

I mean there was one twist in Empire. But it still made *no sense* with what we knew from movie one. A lot of what happens in Empire feels disconnected form Star Wars. I don't think TLJ is any more unexpected than Empire is.

 

[Brian G.]

I don't see it. How Snoke came to power has nothing to do with Rey's search for a family or Kylo's journey to find who he really is. We know the important pieces. He rose to power, launched an attack on the galaxy, and turned Kylo Ren to the dark side. We don't need to know anything else to inform the drama of the movies.

Rey, no. Absolutely with Kylo, though. Because of Snoke, Kylo turned to the Dark Side and made Luke retire from teaching/using the force and go into isolation. It split up Han and Leia, and ultimately, Ben's full turn to the Dark Side saw him kill his own father. We know what was the spark to get him to go to Snoke with Luke's fleeting moment, but who the hell is he to come up to Kylo and persuade him enough to ignore his family and put the dark side thoughts in his head.

Not to mention, all the stuff in the OT with the Empire falling as Belloq said.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

I mean there was one twist in Empire. But it still made *no sense* with what we knew from movie one. A lot of what happens in Empire feels disconnected form Star Wars. I don't think TLJ is any more unexpected than Empire is.

I mean Han and Leia become a couple or find their first love for each other here, then give birth to Kylo. So not disconnected. Plus Luke and Anakin are the main parts to that trilogy. That trilogy was also made as a trilogy, idk if it was planned or not, but they didn’t have in mind future prequels/sequels, and have all the previous films knowledge when making them. Hard to fully compare the two.

 

[JungleSkip]

but who the hell is he to come up to Kylo and persuade him enough to ignore his family and put the dark side thoughts in his head.

But why does that matter *at the time* of TFA/TLJ? It's in the past. All that matters is that it happened and Kylo fell. The movies are about his continued fall and possible redemption, not why he fell in the first place.

EDIT: I'm also not saying there's not a potentially interesting story there. I'm just saying it's extra detail not necessary for the stories TFA and TLJ are telling.

 

[Brian G.]

But why does that matter *at the time* of TFA/TLJ? It's in the past. All that matters is that it happened and Kylo fell. The movies are about his continued fall and possible redemption, not why he fell in the first place.

Because it’s still a part of overarching saga. What was the point of overthrowing the Empire if some rando shows up and says “nah we still here”. Again, it doesn’t need a set of prequels - but a few lines of dialogue between two films isn’t much to ask for.

 

[JungleSkip]

Because it’s still a part of overarching saga. What was the point of overthrowing the Empire if some rando shows up and says “nah we still here”. Again, it doesn’t need a set of prequels - but a few lines of dialogue between two films isn’t much to ask for.

I guess the way I see it, we get those lines of dialogue. In the opening crawl it says the First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire, then Leia and Han talk about how Snoke turned Kylo, and we get the relevant details about that in TLJ with the Rashomon style flashbacks.