The Wizarding World of Harry Potter - Hogsmeade (Orlando): Part 2

[El Erico]

well, as a general rule, M,T, W are slow days and I said this yesterday. But the WWofHP is not playing by the "general rule" evidently. This is goofy.

Thank goodness I am neither here nor there about ever seeing it. I would never wait to enter a theme park area.

Lines weren't bad at Potterland yesterday when I went. Hour and a half wait for the majority of the day, but they load so fast that it's more like thirty/forty-five minutes or so. We went in when we first got there, waited about forty-five minutes, got on the ride.

To say the least, I was experiencing an enhanced state of retard happy before, during and after the ride. It was just an awesome ride, even though you can tell what was cut and what wasn't if you've kept up with the teasers.

Anyway, really wanted to experience Butterbeer and Pumpkin Juice, but there were lines for EVERYTHING, even shopping, and it was next to impossible to get out of the gift shop at the end of FJ. It was ridiculous. So, yeah, I didn't get to spend any money because I didn't want to spend twenty minutes in line just to shop or drink.

Needless to say, I don't think I'll be visiting IOA for another year 'til everyone's had their chance to ride and things get to a point where they don't have to hand out tickets to manage how many people get in.

EDIT: Oh, and DC didn't get over a fifteen minute wait. It was five minutes most of the day. Besides the front rows, both coasters were quite literally walk-ons. Hippogriff got to 20 minutes at one point during the day, I think.

 

[WTRiker]

OK, without going through the entire thread and seeing if someone else has discussed this yet (Sorry Teebin, but I am actually trying to not make this another wait time post but an operational discussion - lol)...what does everyone think about having to queue up just to get into the land, and is it really necessary - or is it creating its own problems?

Understand I am looking at this from an operational standpoint, I have a long background in running daily ops at theme parks, and I do realize that there may be some differences that may be playing into this decision that we are not aware of: foremost that UO is within Orange Co/Orlando limits and has to conform to a slightly different fire code than Disney because they are under Orange Co/Orlando fire marshall jurisdiction and Disney on the other hand is under Reedy Creek, and that MIGHT be playing into everything.

But, I also look at the queues they built specifically for the attractions, the current wait times posted (no more than 2 hours for FJ, Hippogriff seems to average 10-20 min, DC seems to average under 45), while Spiderman and Dudley are also averaging 45-60 during the day. The FJ extended queue is monsterous, I dont see how it could not handle a 3hr wait for the ride itself (which puts people somewhere...), Hippogriff with a 20 min wait is not even one loop of the queue built (and there are at least 3 loops of queue available), etc.

We all know that other places have tested these waters before...with both good and bad results. Disney has in the past tested artificially making lines look longer by closing off inside queue loops and making outside lines look longer to see if it would turn people away from queuing up: they found that this did not deter folks who were determined to ride anyway. And for all it has done for good, Fastpass has RUINED certain attractions stand-by lines (remember when the longest wait for Peter Pan was 60 minutes? Now even on a slow day in February when the stand-by line which used to never be over 15, is always 30-45 minutes thanks to fastpass).

5-8 hour lines just to enter the land itself? OK, I see trying to make the "experience" less crowded, I can also appreciate that browsing shops, etc is a nightmare already because of the small size of the shops (thanks, JKR), but heres also part of the problem that is created with these queues just to get into the area itself: if folks are having to stay in line for 3+ hours just to get INTO the area itself - THEY ARENT GOING TO LEAVE THE AREA EITHER FOR FEAR OF NOT GETTING BACK IN - which does not make room for others who want to come in!

With the heat, another side problem is that you want people to continually move, not stand in line all day hoping to just get into the area! If you are allowing your foot traffic to just flow through the area, a lot of folks will just flow through, see the wait times on the attractions, see the overcrowded shops, and go on their way, possibly coming back later. If on the other hand you queue people up for 3-4 hours in anticipation, this does not happen. (havent you ever experienced the "Lemming" effect at a park,or even a mall on Black Friday, seeing people automatically queue up for a line not even knowing what it is for, just to find out theres something else, another enterance, they didnt want to be in line for what it was for anyway, etc? I can attest to this, it happens all the time).

The only downside I can see to filling the FJ queue to its full capacity and having its wait time increased, while still letting the normal guest flow through Hogsmeade (except if there is a problem with fire code restrictions since it was designed), would be having to dump the queue if the ride was down for an extended amount of time - but again from what Ive seen of the queue there are enough exit points that this could be accomplished without much trouble. And the thing has been pretty stable - not perfect, but pretty stable.

I can also understand that there is a lot to take in, even during softs we found ourselves not leaving the land for 4 hours or more: but different than the average theme park guest we were really looking at details, window dressings, etc with a very detailed eye: at the same time we had no problems riding Hippogriff SEVEN TIMES with our little one during that period of time, and FJ twice! Again, not the average day-park visitor.

But as a visiting day-guest, I would personally be more upset being denied access to the land at all after waiting 3-5 hours than to see a 3-4 hour posted wait for FJ, 1 hr wait for DC, etc on the wait-time sign and make my own decision to wait/ride or not but still be able to walk through and decide this on my own - not know in the back of my head that there are folks who entered the land and stayed INSIDE for 3-4 hours and were allowed then to ride FJ two or three times, etc while I couldnt even get into the queue area. (course I did it enough times during softs, and have an AP, so I can wait until Fall to experience it again if necessary).

In a nutshell, I see a few possibilities:

1. UO is trying to preserve the "guest experience" for now by limiting access into the land to keep the crowds manageable. (con to this is that folks who are forced to wait so long even to get access dont leave at all, and others lemming up in line and wait 3-5 hours to be denied enterance). So except for the "lucky few" who do get in without more than an hour wait to the area, they are unintentionally destroying the guest experience for most of the day guests.

2. UO is having issues with the fire marshall even when it comes to just walk-through guests, because of the different rules inside the county/city limits. (ever notice that the max occupancy sign in 3 broomsticks is only like 193 people if I remember correctly, even though it is a good sized building?). Possible, in buildings I could see limiting access, but for walk-through traffic I have a hard time seeing this.

3. UO is intentionally creating "news" headlines about the crowds and the success of HP. (Hate to consider it, but its been done before - and not just at UO: and I can attest to it first-hand).

4. UO management in charge of Ops for this area is JUST PLAIN CLUELESS about how to handle the crowds. (Again I find it hard to believe with the rich history from the standpoint of managing these things in the Orlando area and the way the ride queues were designed, but then again Ive met some pretty clueless Ops managers in my lifetime who think they know everything and really dont understand jack...).

I would think a discussion on this topic would be interesting - given that we have folks who work inside theme parks (Including UO - we KNOW for a fact that some of them read this board), designers, day-guests, AP holders, etc. I would love to hear some other opinions and possible solutions myself - Im sure theres a lot of good thoughts out there from those of us especially who have worked in the industry before and opened large attractions or areas.

One thing I thought of right off the bat would be to hand out colored tickets at the front turnstiles as you enter the park - and create a "virtual queue" line of sorts: different colors represent different time windows about 2-3 hours apart where folks can enter the land, and see how that not only effects daily guest traffic but how it effects the ride queue lines. Easy enough to also update the wait time signs with the appropriate colors' windows so people have a reference to go by throughout their day. This would also get rid of the physical 5 hour line-ups. And no, it shouldnt have to get to the extreme that people are forced out of the land after their time is up: I believe you would see guest flow somewhat normalize and people would leave on their own...naturally allowing the next group the experience. Most folks expect crowds anyway this time of year, and especially with something so new, so I still believe there would be less guest complaints doing it this way.

Another thing you could do to help would be to take some reservations for eating at 3 broomsticks - who cares if it's counter-service, this would not be that difficult to implement. Remember in its heyday, the Diamond Horseshoe took reservations (granted you were really reserving a show time), and it was pseudo counter-service for quite a bit of its life. Take the same idea minus the show, allow Guest Services to take reservations on times (only some percentage of their daily capacity to still allow for walk-ins), and that also would help with crowds, overcrowding (fire code) of the Broomsticks, and guest flow.

Of course we all know this whole situation is temporary, and by this time next year wont be as severe a situation as it is right now with everyone clammoring to get into the new area RIGHT NOW from around the world, but in the meantime the situation is just out of hand IMHO, and from what Im reading and being told first-hand, not being very well handled from a guest perspective.

Start the debating now.... lol.

 

[Teebin]

OK, without going through the entire thread and seeing if someone else has discussed this yet (Sorry Teebin, but I am actually trying to not make this another wait time post but an operational discussion - lol)...what does everyone think about having to queue up just to get into the land, and is it really necessary - or is it creating its own problems?

3. UO is intentionally creating "news" headlines about the crowds and the success of HP. (Hate to consider it, but its been done before - and not just at UO: and I can attest to it first-hand).

I guarantee you that #3 isn't it. It is actually creating bad press in that many people are staying away because of the lines to just get into the WW; Especially AP holders. Right this minute, there is a 3-5 hour line just to get into the WW and FJ has a 120 minute wait time. Imagine what the FJ wait time would be if they let all people in line to get into the WW itself. It would be a horror show: FJ 6hrs, Olivanders 3hrs, Broomsticks 4 hrs. And each shop would be 1-3hrs. The entire WW would become one big queue.

 

[gannonsmovieworld]

I guarantee you that #3 isn't it. It is actually creating bad press in that many people are staying away because of the lines to just get into the WW; Especially AP holders. Right this minute, there is a 3-5 hour line just to get into the WW and FJ has a 120 minute wait time. Imagine what the FJ wait time would be if they let all people in line to get into the WW itself. It would be a horror show: FJ 6hrs, Olivanders 3hrs, Broomsticks 4 hrs. And each shop would be 1-3hrs. The entire WW would become one big queue.

Agreed.

 

[Continental180]

yeah agreed. i feel that if they let everyone in, it would be a mess and get sloppy. Even though the lines to get into the land is long, it makes it a much better experience for once u enter the land.

 

[Vyrus]

I like the colored designated time ticket over standing in a line snaking through the whole park.

If park capacity is roughly 40,000 and they are open for a 12 hour day that is roughly 3300 every hour. The only downside is what is FJ hourly ride capacity? Its lower than this right?

 

[talfonso]

This'll be my first time going to Universal in about 5 years (or whenever Mummy opened). We actually had season passes and did go in the summer once or twice. I don't really remember any Brazilian tour groups. Are they really that bad?

It depends when the Samba Muggles (my Hatty Potter term for Brazilian tour groups, under the category turismos) behave - they either behave well or carry on chanting. (I actually prefer spending a whole day at any given Central FL theme park with them chanting all the time over listening to a vuvuzela chorus each World Cup match!) I'll see to that this week, since it's their winter vacation.

 

[WTRiker]

I guarantee you that #3 isn't it. It is actually creating bad press in that many people are staying away because of the lines to just get into the WW; Especially AP holders. Right this minute, there is a 3-5 hour line just to get into the WW and FJ has a 120 minute wait time. Imagine what the FJ wait time would be if they let all people in line to get into the WW itself. It would be a horror show: FJ 6hrs, Olivanders 3hrs, Broomsticks 4 hrs. And each shop would be 1-3hrs. The entire WW would become one big queue.

Interesting that everyone is focusing on killing #3 scenario, but not really considering the rest of the thread...this was only ONE of many possibilities!
But since everyone so far seems focused on that one, lets get it out of the way now:
As I said, even I hate to consider it, but I have FIRST HAND seen it done before. Lets face it - anything can be spun in the press, and it IS a possibility that "overwhelming success" headlines can be spun out of the situation. No this is not my #1 possibility, but it is a real concern still.

But then again I can remember back to the opening of the MK, and because people still remembered the insanity of opening day of Disneyland, (and the press reminded those who had forgotten), MK was prepped for overcrowding that didnt happen until the 2nd day because people actually AVOIDED opening day. When Epcot opened, people were reminded that "MK was not busy on opening day..." so all the locals went, and the gates were closed. (And Epcot's REAL capacity - NOT what they shut it off at today, is a LOT higher than either UO park! When Epcot was still the only other park besides MK, and even into the Studio first years, an AVERAGE day at Epcot was 43,000. (I have WORKED days out there in the distant past that we HAD 70,000 in the park - EPCOT was actualyl built to handle crowds like this!) Today Epcot is lucky if it hits that number on New Years Eve, but they still go to Phase 4 closings and call it a success! (average day at Epcot is in the 19-30 range these days - even during peak times - reason lines seem longer like they were in the days is because people dont know how to load properly anymore, and staffing is lower: all sims/vehicles arent brought on line, etc. But I digress...)

So onto the other points that are more possible, and the rest of your statement:

I dont think youre entirely thinking through your other comment though: you actually are contradicting yourself.

Personally I also somewhat disagree with your "horror show" scenario - I would liken it more to the individual lines being rediculous for the haunted houses on any HHN (2-3 hour waits are common), but the park areas themselves are still managable, and theres a lot of folks like me just go to wander the streets more than get into every attraction. Guest FLOW is what we are discussing here that is being impeded by queuing for the area itself, not the individual ride lines.

The queues were built to handle those kind of waits (3 hours for FJ, 1-1.5 hrs for the other coasters, etc). Ollivanders could temporarily test reservations also, if the line got rediculous for it.
So there are options.

Personally I would EXPECT as both an Ops member AND a guest, that 3-4 hour waits for FJ would be common right now - AND they built the extended queue in anticipation of those kind of waits. So, WHY are we queueing up JUST TO ENTER THE AREA, and not taking advantage of these hard queues for the attractions themselves??? Thats what does not make sense in this scenario, unless it is as I said, to try and "preserve the guest experience" in the Land itself. But the problem is - if youre queued up for 3-5 hours just to get into the area, then you see that HG is only 10-20 min wait, DC is only 30 minutes, FJ is ONLY 1.5-2 hours, you stay in the area, go on these multiple times, and DONT LEAVE the area, which then impedes the other guests queued up for 4-5 hours just to get into the area dont get to experience ANYTHING! Personally from a Guest point of view, I would rather see the Land itself opened up, the 3-4+ hour line for FJ (where the line SHOULD be), and make a CHOICE to stand in the line for FJ that long or not, or to move on....rather than be denied the entire experience.

Funny that you say "The entire WW would become one big queue"....isnt that EXACTLY what it is now??? Kind of kills the argument, and goes directly against your earlier post (which is exactly the point I agree with and would like to see remedied ) about refusing to be waiting in line just to get into an area in the park.

The lines SHOULD be for the rides/shows, not for just walking through the area itself. So theres something either we dont know here (fire code issues in the city/county, etc), OR an inept Senior Ops Manager/team (VERY likely!) who just have no clue HOW to handle the guests correctly and are just reacting out of bad advice or panic, therebly creating EXACTLY what you and I are not only against, but that you mention above: The entire WW IS now one big queue!

WHICH complaint would you rather have: I stood in line for 4 hours and was not allowed into the WWoHP AT ALL, or FJ was a 4 hour wait all day and so I couldnt ride it, but I was able to ride DC or HG and move onto other rides in the park???
Personally if I were the GSM, I would prefer to be seeing complaint #2, its a common gripe but nothing uncommon for ANY theme park during peak times.

 

[TheDecemberists]

I like the colored designated time ticket over standing in a line snaking through the whole park.

The problem is, not everyone plans on staying from opening to closing. What if their "designated time ticket" is at a time when they weren't planning on being there?

 

[Vyrus]

The problem is, not everyone plans on staying from opening to closing. What if their "designated time ticket" is at a time when they weren't planning on being there?

Then too bad so sad, should have gotten there earlier.

 

[Tbad556]

WHICH complaint would you rather have: I stood in line for 4 hours and was not allowed into the WWoHP AT ALL, or FJ was a 4 hour wait all day and so I couldnt ride it, but I was able to ride DC or HG and move onto other rides in the park???

I think the main issue is, the lack of space in the island. With the line to get in, it is already hard to walk around. Imagine if they let everyone in. It would be impossible to even move around Hogsmeade. I would taking waiting to get in and then being able to enjoy the island over not being able to move around all day.

 

[WTRiker]

The problem is, not everyone plans on staying from opening to closing. What if their "designated time ticket" is at a time when they weren't planning on being there?

Good question: but youre not looking at the big picture, just a the individual issue. No solution is going to please EVERYONE, but this is a good option for majority.

But, look at Disney Fastpass for an answer, and something the "average guest" doesnt realize: just because your Fastpass SAYS you are admitted between 1:45 and 2:45, they will accept it from you ANYTIME AFTER your designated time: so if you redeem that Fastpass at 7PM at Soarin, they will STILL accept it!

Remember you have many types of guests on property also:
1. AP holders and locals - can come back anytime, and for the most part probably will when faced with a 3 hr wait for FJ
2. Day guests: MANY are on a 1 day ticket beacuse theres a lot of things to see and do on your 1 week vacation to Orlando, others have SPECIFICALLY come down for this ONE thing - it is still Grand Opening after all!
3. Multi-day guests/park-hoppers: two types here: the ones who do one day in each park and dont hop, and the ones who hop back and forth all day long because the parks are walking distance from one another.
4. those who really dont know or dont care about Potter,or just dont have time (you would not believe how many travellers actually buy tickets to one of the theme parks as late as 5-6PM and only spend a couple of hours because they are so limited on time on their vacation) and their tickets would not be redeemed because, honestly, they just dont care: so thats even more folks taken out of the daily cycle.
And of course: (albeit a small number): 5. the "collectors": and if you dont think they are real, think back to the number of "Test Track Re-Entry passes" and "Open-end Fastpasses" that showed up for sale on Ebay to fellow collectors or future travellers!

So one possible solution - and would actually make the experience more accessible to more people. Rather than queuing up for 5 hours (1/2 your day) JUST to get into the Land itself!

 

[Teebin]

Interesting that everyone is focusing on killing #3 scenario, but not really considering the rest of the thread...this was only ONE of many possibilities!
But since everyone so far seems focused on that one, lets get it out of the way now:

I read your entire prior post. I am sure UOR is toying around with their options, one of which was the tickets they are passing out so that everyone in a group doesn't have to stand in line. That is a reasonable solution. While some of your other ideas sounded good at first glance, they could easily cause other more serious problems; cause and effect.

I completely disagree with your thought of letting everyone in would be a good solution. It would cause a serious disappointment for EVERYONE and the reviews would be caustic in every blog and forum around the world. The whole WW would be nicknamed "The Forbidden Journey" and people would be warned to just forget going as it was a huge disappointment and too crowded.

EDIT: I do think we will be seeing a restaurant in The Magic Neep building sooner rather than later. Perhaps just serving fish and chips as happens at the UK in EPCOT.

 

[WTRiker]

I think the main issue is, the lack of space in the island. With the line to get in, it is already hard to walk around. Imagine if they let everyone in. It would be impossible to even move around Hogsmeade. I would taking waiting to get in and then being able to enjoy the island over not being able to move around all day.

What I am still curious to hear from a first-hand report is: is IOA allowing EVERYONE who queues up before park close access to the land/ride, OR are they closing the line 1-2 hours BEFORE park close to ensure they close on time?

Again, reason I am curious is coming from a Disney background: rule at Disney has ALWAYS been: IF you are in line BEFORE park closing time, you are garanteed (as long as the ride is operational) that you will be admitted. And, I can ATTEST to rides like Test Track loading the last guest almost 2 hours AFTER park closing time when it was new and the lines were that long!

Now, IF UO is queuing up people just to ENTER the land, and the lines are 4-5 hours long even in the evenings, HOW are they able to do this?And, of course, ARE THEY???

The ONLY practical way is to either: end the line-ups to get into the area and utilize the ride queue lines as they SHOULD be doing, or dis-allow ANY new access to the Land 1-2 hours before park close: NOT IMHO the best option for Guest satisfaction!

I also do not know UO's policy or contracts with their TM's, but again I know that Disney CAN and DOES (especially at MK) have the option to force-extend shifts of the cast members 1-2 hours if necessary: so during busy seasons they can extend hours of an individual ride, land, OR the entire park on a moments notice if the crowds deem it necessary. Again, if UO IS experiencing these types of waits, it would be in their best interest to extend the IOA hours for Potter and maybe 3-4 of the other "high demand" attractions.
Again, just taking a play from the playbook "up the road".

 

[Jymmymack]

If they let everyone in that line in (enough people to stretch from one side of the park to another) it would be anarchy. The opening would bottleneck, the lines to get into shops would go on for hours, there would pushing/shoving/fighting hourly, and you literally would be unable to move.

In regards to the "Disney" policy of letting everyone in, this isn't a single attraction. It's an entire land, one based on books that have been translated into 40+ languages and spawned the highest grossing film series in history. UO HAS kept Forbidden Journey open past closing for those in line, but the line to get into the land isn't the same beast. There aren't really set rules for setting capacity for an entire land and honoring place in line. Let's put it this way, if you get in line at 6 o'clock and it's a five hour wait, you'd better do some counting on your fingers. Not really that hard or unreasonable to figure out that if you get in line that late and it's still long line, then you might not get in.

 

[La2kw]

We are staying at the Royal Pacific right now and have spent the past two mornings lining up at 7 am in the park just to enter the land at 8 am. When we left the park at 1 pm the line just to get into Wizarding World was four hours. Inside WW it's basically standing room only with wall to wall people. Ollivanders has 2 hour lines by 8:30am. All the stores have lines all day. Those 4 hour lines to enter WW are legit and not a marketing strategy. We waited 40 minutes to get into 3 broomsticks for lunch yesterday. All the stores are jam packed and there is very little room to move around or to see what little merchandise is left. I think the whole area is a huge fire hazard with way too many people being allowed in is at is. That said, everyone has been very happy and excited just to be here, including ourselves I've seen 1 or 2 jerks out of the thousands of people I have been squeezed into the park with. The universal workers are doing an awesome job keeping everything organized and running smoothly. Disney should be very nervous about this park and need to realize that a bunch of character meet and greets in their Fantasyland expansion ain't gonna bring in the crowds that Potter is going to bring to IOA.

Regular butter beer is much better than frozen and FJ is an awesome experience. I've ridden 12 times in the past three days. I'm 6'3" and 250 and have been fine in the seat. They push the restraints down to get three clicks, but I have seen quite a few people get sent away.

--- Update ---

I read your entire prior post. I am sure UOR is toying around with their options, one of which was the tickets they are passing out so that everyone in a group doesn't have to stand in line. That is a reasonable solution. While some of your other ideas sounded good at first glance, they could easily cause other more serious problems; cause and effect.

I completely disagree with your thought of letting everyone in would be a good solution. It would cause a serious disappointment for EVERYONE and the reviews would be caustic in every blog and forum around the world. The whole WW would be nicknamed "The Forbidden Journey" and people would be warned to just forget going as it was a huge disappointment and too crowded.

EDIT: I do think we will be seeing a restaurant in The Magic Neep building sooner rather than later. Perhaps just serving fish and chips as happens at the UK in EPCOT.

I agree. It's already overcrowded in the land with the line to get into the land. It is already gridlock in the stores and on some pathways. Letting everyone in freely would be dangerous. In the afternoon the line seems to disappear and at that point traffic becomes free flowing.

There's also a secret butterbeer location

--- Update ---

And lots of extra cash registers for the shops which are clearly mobile and temporary.

 

[OrlandoBelle]

How are Universal handling the package holders with early3B breakfast reservations?
Separate line?
Take your chance that you arrive early enough to make your ressie time?
Calling people out of the line to the front?
What do off site package holders have to prove they are allowed early entry? A copy of their booking or some sort of pass?

 

[WTRiker]

I read your entire prior post. I am sure UOR is toying around with their options, one of which was the tickets they are passing out so that everyone in a group doesn't have to stand in line. That is a reasonable solution. While some of your other ideas sounded good at first glance, they could easily cause other more serious problems; cause and effect.

I completely disagree with your thought of letting everyone in would be a good solution. It would cause a serious disappointment for EVERYONE and the reviews would be caustic in every blog and forum around the world. The whole WW would be nicknamed "The Forbidden Journey" and people would be warned to just forget going as it was a huge disappointment and too crowded.

EDIT: I do think we will be seeing a restaurant in The Magic Neep building sooner rather than later. Perhaps just serving fish and chips as happens at the UK in EPCOT.

Well, we agree to disagree on that point then: but I can honestly say that IF I scheduled my family vacation to go to IOA this year for Potter, I would be a lot less disappointed returing home if it was MY choice not to ride the ride because of the wait but still got to at least look around the area, then to have to queue up for over 1/2 my day in the heat JUST to even get a glimpse of the area!
(course, Im smarter and more patient I guess than to schedule my entire vaca around something that will be there for 10 years on the opening month! - lol! I mean, its not like its the Worlds Fair and is only going to be around for a year or less!)

But again, maybe I am fortunate to have a unique take on all of this because I have history with EXACTLY this type of scenario, and in the past I have had to deal with exactly these types of issues from both an Ops member AND an Ops Mgmt postion, and have headed meetings over exactly the types of scenarios both going on and what we are discussing: I have been on BOTH sides of the Guest Services desk (as an employee AND as a guest), I am WELL AWARE that the Tickets and Merch mgrs don't want to Phase Close the park early just because one area is overcrowded because it cuts revenue, and the Ops VP doesnt want 3 hour lines, and the Food Ops Mgr doesnt want this or that either, etc etc etc. And at the same time, guests see a line and turn into lemmings and stay in that line because they are afraid they will miss something (something about human nature I guess) even when the rest of the park is dead, etc etc.

Im also quite keenly aware that you cant please everyone - you have to try your best to please the majority in these situations. IMO UO is actually creating MORE of a problem with their current solution - again an opinion based on first hand experience, but still MY opinion.

But I can definately tell you with the decision UO is currently making about access to the land, I would NOT want to be a TM in Guest Services for the next few months! More than once in the past week I have heard that the line for Guest Services has been nearly as long as the line for gaining enterance to the WWoHP - first-hand accounts from folks I know out there!

 

[La2kw]

How are Universal handling the package holders with early3B breakfast reservations?
Separate line?
Take your chance that you arrive early enough to make your ressie time?
Calling people out of the line to the front?
What do off site package holders have to prove they are allowed early entry? A copy of their booking or some sort of pass?

I know that they line up for breakfast and check the list for their name at 3B, but I've only seen onsite folks in our line at 7am. I think the package people line up in JP but I'm not sure. The line for onsite hotels where they check your room key is in Seuss Landing. We did buy breakfast yesterday but they seemed rather confused as to why we were there buying breakfast and asked us repeatedly for our breakfast coupon.

 

[WTRiker]

If they let everyone in that line in (enough people to stretch from one side of the park to another) it would be anarchy. The opening would bottleneck, the lines to get into shops would go on for hours, there would pushing/shoving/fighting hourly, and you literally would be unable to move.

In regards to the "Disney" policy of letting everyone in, this isn't a single attraction. It's an entire land, one based on books that have been translated into 40+ languages and spawned the highest grossing film series in history. UO HAS kept Forbidden Journey open past closing for those in line, but the line to get into the land isn't the same beast. There aren't really set rules for setting capacity for an entire land and honoring place in line. Let's put it this way, if you get in line at 6 o'clock and it's a five hour wait, you'd better do some counting on your fingers. Not really that hard or unreasonable to figure out that if you get in line that late and it's still long line, then you might not get in.

Well, first, if they let normal guest flow through the area and utilized the attractions queues to do what they were designed for, they wouldnt HAVE those lines to let in.

Second, this is a Land, EXACTLY. Access to the land itself should be open, if you want to get in line for the rides, shows, even shops while they are this crowded, go ahead. But the land itself should be open. I REALLY dont think you would have the problem.

Simply: If I have to wait 5 hours just to enter the area, and once I am in, I am in, then Im staying as long as I possibly can, especially when I see 10-20 min waits for 2 out of 3 attractions and 1-2 hours for the premiere one - Im good for the day!
Heck, theres food, theres shopping, I may just stay all day and I get plenty to do - but it means someone else can not get in and is still in line outside the area just hoping to get inside.

If on the other hand I can pass through, look around, see that the ride wait times are longer than I want to wait, grab something to drink, etc, then Im somewhat satisfied and Ill move on which of course makes room for the next person (or persons).

If the line for the individual attraction (lets take HG for example) gets up to 50 minutes this way, it still has the same hourly capacity: difference is, MORE people are actually experiencing it, as opposed to me not wanting to leave the Land and deciding to ride it myself 4 or 5 times because its only a 10 minute wait and, well, Im in the Land and youre not, so too bad so sad!

When you look at it that way - the problem becomes more aware.


Also, I am not looking at this from a "Only Harry Potter Fans" outlook: I personally have stated many times I am NOT a Harry Potter fan, I am a Theme Park nut! So the "its an entire land...based on....blah blah blah" doesnt matter to me - the point is: its a Themed Land yes, with 3 Attractions and 2-3 Shows. And looking at it from that standpoint, (and a lot of guests do - not everyone is a Harry Potter fan, or a Comic book fan, or a Snow White fan, etc), and IOA being in the Theme Park business, they also need to consider the bigger picture.

So by restricting access to the entire Land, by queueing for admission to the entire Land instead of the individual attractions, you are creating the opportunity for the lucky ones who get in to stay in and enjoy the 10 minute wait for DC or the 60 minute wait for FJ over and over again, as long as they dont leave the Land. While the folks still out in line even to get into the Land have to wait for those people to leave.

As to the point that "it is an entire land based on...."

Weather or not it is Themed on Harry Potter, or on Santa Claus, it is NOT a seperate ticketed attraction or area- access to it by design should not be treated as such. Its just bad policy.


AND CONSIDER THIS:

And with TWO "E" ticket attractions and one of the few childrens attractions in the park at all, thats a LOT of real estate during peak season to just take "off the map" and limit access. And thats the problem: by doing what UO IS doing, they are not utilizing their attractions queues correctly, and are creating an "exclusive" area for those lucky enough to get in, thereby also limiting individual access to TWO major attractions!

See, from an Ops standpoint this is a horrible choice. May be great for the die-hard HP fan, but for the average TP day-guest, and for moving people around, bad choice.

That brings me to your next point:

UNLESS youre going to restrict access without a method of making sure everyone has the same opportunity to visit (some way to force people out after a certain period of time or restrict them to only ride the ride once a day,etc), or make it a seperate ticketed attraction, then you have to take this into consideration.

Look at it this way: I may not be a HP fan, I may be a roller coaster enthusiest: does that mean that I should have to wait 5 hours just to gain access to DC which has a posted 20 minute wait?

Is it fair or right to deny that guest access to the coaster (the single E-Ticket attraction) just because you re-themed the area to something they dont really care much about, but the folks who are already in there can ride it over and over with the 20 minute wait as long as they dont leave the protected area?????

Again - Ops nightmare!

For the argument you are leaning towards, WWoHP should be either a seperate ticketed area, OR there should be hard-ticketed "Harry Potter" events after hours. Then you could keep the intimacy. Otherwise, the same access and restrictions should be the same for WWoHP as it is for Marvel Island or Seuss Landing: area open and attractions have individual queue waits.