Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[WAJAS]

I don't see the bus lane thing ever happening. It's too confusing as to wether it's public or private. If they basically give Universal a lane on the road people will complain when traffic gets busy that Universal has access to part of the road the public doesn't. Not to mention all the ongoing costs of upkeep and maintenance that primarily serve a private business. If Universal is paying for a monorail and keeps it separate from the road only using small spaces for pylons that would otherwise be unused, people will see that as taking traffic off the road and expenses away from the county.

Not to mention Universal is going to want to create the cohesive feel of a resort. Transporting guests in buses on public roads just isn't going to cut it. It works at Disney because the roads are all within the resort, it's not the same thing here.

Well the bus lanes are happening, at least in part, no matter what Universal does, and the bus lanes would not just be for Universal. Any bus would be able to use them. They already exist in a few parts of Orlando including downtown and parts of I-Drive and nobody seems to complain about them.

 

[peteralt]

I think buses will be used to begin with but I can see a lot of problems rising from it, mainly traffic and insurance if an accident were to happen.

A monorail seems like the best choice for several reasons.

1) It avoids traffic and allows Universal more control over the travel times.
2) If the track is raised, the windows can potentially be blocked out. I'm not saying create something similar to HE but anything would be better than looking at the hotels and some of eye sores on I Drive.
3) I think a few people have mentioned that when Universal Blvd was built, it was built with the intention of a monorail being added at a later date, hence the wide median for most of the road. (Speculation on my part but there could already be plans there for it since Universal previously owned this land) Looking at it on a map, I do see some trouble spots in crossing Sand Lake Road and I4 into the resort.
4) Depending on how many stops it makes between resorts (If any besides the Wet n Wild plot) there could be a potential for external funding.
5) They have high capacity
6) They're essentially giant bill boards travelling between the resorts.

As an idea, I've added the MK monorail station and added it next to the RP car park. I think this would allow enough space for the track to loop back around onto Universal Blvd. I think the station is close enough to CityWalk for guests to walk via the existing walkways from the hotels (Obviously this will have to be widened) For any of the guests staying at the hotels, a boat stop could also be added.

It's been confirmed that Comcast-Universal has been shopping around, looking for a transit solution. This was confirmed by AMT (American Maglev Transit) in a Tweet that said that they have submitted a proposal and that theirs is but one that were submitted by various companies that are being looked at.

AMT has an automated people mover monorail which uses maglev technology for propulsion. The benefit of a maglev monorail versus rubber tire monorails is that there is no friction on the track and that it uses virtually no wheels. This means less maintanance is required. This means that it has a very low operating cost.

The problem with AMT is that they have yet to deploy a working system and no one wants to be the first and risk it being a lemon. AMT does have a prototype they operate in Georgia that works perfectly, but the company has a bad reputation for building dudes elsewhere. An older generation model was built at a university but they never got the thing to actually work, at mostly the expense of the university.

One solution could be that Comcast could choose AMT to build their system, but with guarantees. If it doesn't work correctly, they would have some kind of insurance on it, monetarily and/or equity in the company. If the system fails, Comcast would then have controlling interest in AMT. With Comcast's deep pockets, they can pour money into redesigning it and new R&D to perfect it and deploy it on other Comcast properties. After they can prove its new design and perfected technologies, they can begin to sell systems to cities all over the world. Once it becomes a profitable new business, they could divest it and sell it off, like Disney did with WEDway Transportation systems. WEDway Transportation Systems designed the Mark series monorail as well as the WEDway PeopleMover. Disney sold the division to Bombardier.

 

[s8film40]

Well the bus lanes are happening, at least in part, no matter what Universal does, and the bus lanes would not just be for Universal. Any bus would be able to use them. They already exist in a few parts of Orlando including downtown and parts of I-Drive and nobody seems to complain about them.

I've seen the bus lanes that already exist. My understanding was they were for Lynx busses only. I didn't think just any bus could use them.

 

[s8film40]

It's been confirmed that Comcast-Universal has been shopping around, looking for a transit solution. This was confirmed by AMT (American Maglev Transit) in a Tweet that said that they have submitted a proposal and that theirs is but one that were submitted by various companies that are being looked at.

AMT has an automated people mover monorail which uses maglev technology for propulsion. The benefit of a maglev monorail versus rubber tire monorails is that there is no friction on the track and that it uses virtually no wheels. This means less maintanance is required. This means that it has a very low operating cost.

The problem with AMT is that they have yet to deploy a working system and no one wants to be the first and risk it being a lemon. AMT does have a prototype they operate in Georgia that works perfectly, but the company has a bad reputation for building dudes elsewhere. An older generation model was built at a university but they never got the thing to actually work, at mostly the expense of the university.

One solution could be that Comcast could choose AMT to build their system, but with guarantees. If it doesn't work correctly, they would have some kind of insurance on it, monetarily and/or equity in the company. If the system fails, Comcast would then have controlling interest in AMT. With Comcast's deep pockets, they can pour money into redesigning it and new R&D to perfect it and deploy it on other Comcast properties. After they can prove its new design and perfected technologies, they can begin to sell systems to cities all over the world. Once it becomes a profitable new business, they could divest it and sell it off, like Disney did with WEDway Transportation systems. WEDway Transportation Systems designed the Mark series monorail as well as the WEDway PeopleMover. Disney sold the division to Bombardier.

I would love to see them go with Bombardier just for the irony of it. Bombardier has progressed the Disney monorail technology a few generations. Imagine if Universal ended up with an advanced version of the Disney monorail.

 

[Disneyhead]

If Comcast/Universal is serious about taking on the Mouse, they will not only need a dedicated transportation system, but one that is super cool and ultra modern no matter the cost.

If they truly gave the "spared no expense" feeling to the resort infrastructure, it would put the city bus network at WDW to shame.

 

[Jon84]

it would put the city bus network at WDW to shame.

Although there really is no other option than the bus network.

 

[quinnmac000]

Although there really is no other option than the bus network.

There are tons of options. Buses are just the easy way out as it takes little to no work to do.
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They could always do a string rail system

The system uses solid steel/concrete rails, reinforced with extremely high tension steel wires, to provide an efficient and smooth rail system anywhere between 3 to 30 meters above the ground. It's earthquake, hurricane and terrorist-proof, and capable of supporting vehicle speeds over 500 kmh, too, making it a genuine high-speed rail alternative, for a fraction of the price of road or ground rail alternatives.

SonicWALL - Blocked by GeoIP Filter.

 

[Jon84]

There are tons of options. Buses are just the easy way out as it takes little to no work to do.
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They could always do a string rail system

The system uses solid steel/concrete rails, reinforced with extremely high tension steel wires, to provide an efficient and smooth rail system anywhere between 3 to 30 meters above the ground. It's earthquake, hurricane and terrorist-proof, and capable of supporting vehicle speeds over 500 kmh, too, making it a genuine high-speed rail alternative, for a fraction of the price of road or ground rail alternatives.

SonicWALL - Blocked by GeoIP Filter.

You think that it would be possible for Disney to connect up all of the resorts and parks using something other than buses?

The number of individual lines would be astounding.

Let alone thing you linked looks like its only useful for point A to B, not like a rail network that can share tracks?

 

[s8film40]

You think that it would be possible for Disney to connect up all of the resorts and parks using something other than buses?

The number of individual lines would be astounding.

Let alone thing you linked looks like its only useful for point A to B, not like a rail network that can share tracks?

The key to fixing the transportation issues at WDW isn't connecting everything to everything in one system, but rather connecting the major hubs to one line and having subsequent transportation in each of those "zones". As it stands now they basically have busses going from each park to every destination. If they had a fast efficient park to park monorail line as well as quick and efficient short routes (boat, people mover and/or bus) branching off of those to the local destinations then transportation as a whole would not only be faster but less vehicles used. So many bus routes are duplicated. This provides a really great example nearby for Universal to look at as how not to do things. I would hope that they are studying the WDW transportation network, this is something that could so easily be done better and is one of the number one complaints among guests.

 

[graspthesun]

I imagine that a dedicated busway is going to be the initial transportation mode. Universal will cut a deal with the city to use the Lynx lanes that are being built and then at some point in the future, they'll build something else.

 

[GAcoaster]

I've said it before, but I just keep imagining that some sort of transport on or between properties being designed to look like the iconic Universal Studios Trams. Of course with closed side for climate control, but somehow reminiscent of the originals:

 

[WAJAS]

Ya those bus lanes are for all buses. Not those that are just publicly owned.

But the public buses (Lynx and Trolley) are the only ones that get signal priority.

 

[s8film40]

I imagine that a dedicated busway is going to be the initial transportation mode. Universal will cut a deal with the city to use the Lynx lanes that are being built and then at some point in the future, they'll build something else.

I'm just curious why would anyone think they wouldn't build a transit system at this point? The transportation connections can already be seen in their proposed plans and as someone said they're shopping around for a transit provider. This really isn't some wishful thinking on the part of theme park fans, it's an element that will either make or break this new resort. Bus lanes aren't going to cut it. I get that we're so accustomed to hearing "monorail is expensive" from the Disney apologists but the reality is this is probably the only way to incorporate the new land as part of the same resort.

 

[Mad Dog]

Lots & lots of horse carriages. And the bike carriages. That'll work. Who needs those stinkin buses & monorails.

 

[GAcoaster]

I don't think buses will be the only transportation, but they will be an important part of the network. They'll never be able to rely on just one form of transport be it bus or monorail or anything else you can imagine. There will always be downtime for one or another and need backup.

 

[Scott W.]

I think you chose one of the worst monorail stations in existence for your diagram.

I think the best place for the station would be above the bus/taxi drop off area dead ending right into the entrance hub there. Where the escalators now come up could be the entrance exit, and new escalators added to the middle of the station.

I only chose it because it was the easiest to identify as being only a station without it being attached to something else. If the current resort is the end start/end of the route, you're only going to need one side to the station. The big difference between this monorail and the connecting MK to TTC is that isn't not in a loop.

I think it would be interesting, maybe not possible, to add a second level onto the main hub connecting the parking garage and then have the monorail's station be in a U shape around the hub. (Then launch from 0-100 real quick)

That's actually quite a great idea. I'll try and mock something up tonight when I get home from work. Don't have a clue how though.

If Comcast/Universal is serious about taking on the Mouse, they will not only need a dedicated transportation system, but one that is super cool and ultra modern no matter the cost.

If they truly gave the "spared no expense" feeling to the resort infrastructure, it would put the city bus network at WDW to shame.

One of the reasons why I think I preferred DL to WDW, everything was closer together and felt more like a resort. WDW is so big that travelling about feels like a chore. I understand why they bought so much land after lessons learned in Anaheim but not why they've made the parks so far apart with no real efficient, fun, cool (choose your adjective) transportation system in place.

 

[Mad Dog]

I only chose it because it was the easiest to identify as being only a station without it being attached to something else. If the current resort is the end start/end of the route, you're only going to need one side to the station.



That's actually quite a great idea. I'll try and mock something up tonight when I get home from work. Don't have a clue how though.




One of the reasons why I think I preferred DL to WDW, everything was closer together and felt more like a resort. WDW is so big that travelling about feels like a chore. I understand why they bought so much land after lessons learned in Anaheim but not why they've made the parks so far apart with no real efficient, fun, cool (choose your adjective) transportation system in place.

Yes, Disneyland copied the Universal model when they built Downtown Disney & California Adventure.

 

[s8film40]

I only chose it because it was the easiest to identify as being only a station without it being attached to something else. If the current resort is the end start/end of the route, you're only going to need one side to the station. The big difference between this monorail and the connecting MK to TTC is that isn't not in a loop.

Yeah I agree, with faster switches loops are no longer necessary and a station like this would be ideal at this location. This is how the end of the line work in Vegas. Although I could see a dual beam station working for faster loading/unloading.

 

[IzzyB]

I would love to see them go with Bombardier just for the irony of it. Bombardier has progressed the Disney monorail technology a few generations. Imagine if Universal ended up with an advanced version of the Disney monorail.

This statement is silly. It is like saying Shanghai tech is so much greater than Orlando why can't we have it. Anything build 20+ years after something else SHOULD have a higher technology. It is not worth WDW to tear down the monorail and build a higher tech monorail when the one they have now works fine. Should the expand? I 100% agree they should expand the monorail, but I doubt they ever will unless they go in another direction some day. But I would hope whatever Universal builds is a higher tech than was was available in the 70s! It would not be a punch to the gut to Disney though, as everyone would expect the newer park to have better tech. That would be like saying (and this is just an example, not a prediction) 20 years down the line when the monorail breaks beyond repair and they decide to tear it down and rebuild it, it would be a newer tech than what Universal has and that Disney would be "beating" universal because of this.

 

[s8film40]

This statement is silly. It is like saying Shanghai tech is so much greater than Orlando why can't we have it. Anything build 20+ years after something else SHOULD have a higher technology. It is not worth WDW to tear down the monorail and build a higher tech monorail when the one they have now works fine. Should the expand? I 100% agree they should expand the monorail, but I doubt they ever will unless they go in another direction some day. But I would hope whatever Universal builds is a higher tech than was was available in the 70s! It would not be a punch to the gut to Disney though, as everyone would expect the newer park to have better tech. That would be like saying (and this is just an example, not a prediction) 20 years down the line when the monorail breaks beyond repair and they decide to tear it down and rebuild it, it would be a newer tech than what Universal has and that Disney would be "beating" universal because of this.

The point I was making is that Disney's own monorail technology has progressed without them. I'm not saying Disney should tear down and build again but rather upgrade to the newer technology. The trains in the video I posted above are designed to work on the WDW system. WDW is way past due for an upgrade the current Mark VI monorails I believe have served longer than any generation of Disney monorail trains. The irony I spoke of would be Universal getting the newest generation of what was Disney technology before Disney. The current WDW fleet is really pretty old, and having a new super modern monorail right down the street would only make it look worse by comparison.