Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[zg44]

I wonder if the art and design for such a TV series would be based on the art from the original films, or would it be started fresh. The latter would seem financially unfeasible.

The financial size of this LOTR TV project is massive.

Potential $200-250 million rights fee (just for the rights to launch the project).

Then $100-150 million production costs for each season.

I'd imagine much of the art/design will be new but they may make things somewhat similar to the movies for continuity.

I'm interested in what this means for theme parks though. A theme park package could be extremely expensive looking at those LOTR TV costs.

We could be talking something like $200m for US parks rights for a 40 year time frame and then $400-600m in build costs across IoA and 3rd dry park.

Either way, Middle Earth = $. Tolkien Estate is definitely going to be willing to participate at these values. The 2020s could be huge for them with a combined TV and theme parks launch.

 

[Mad Dog]

To list some rumor's...

• SNW (P1/P1.5)

1. Mario Kart (concept art fully seen from original pitches)
2. Yoshi (Indications of Omnimover, first for UPR)
3. Donkey Kong (Patent exists, titled "Boom Coaster". Seen in original pitch aswell)
4. Pokemon (Seems to be best guess of the .5 for SNW)

• Potter

1. Forbidden Forest Family Thrill Coaster (Announced, but indications are of multiple animatronics with indoor and outdoor component)
2. Ministry of Magic

• Little things for USF..

1. Secret Life of Pets (Reported multiple times in past from sources across different platfoms, including IU that it was in development. Recently, things popped in of it's possibility of coming to Orlando increasing)
2. Bond/Bourne (Seems to be the rumored replacement for T2)

• Other..

1. Iron Legion? (Patents exist, but may be in R&D hell)
2. Something else?

Yes, like you I was able to come up with nine of the ten. Perhaps the tenth is the Lost Continent replacement.

 

[Mad Dog]

The financial size of this LOTR TV project is massive.

Potential $200-250 million rights fee (just for the rights to launch the project).

Then $100-150 million production costs for each season.

I'd imagine much of the art/design will be new but they may make things somewhat similar to the movies for continuity.

I'm interested in what this means for theme parks though. A theme park package could be extremely expensive looking at those LOTR TV costs.

We could be talking something like $200m for US parks rights for a 40 year time frame and then $400-600m in build costs across IoA and 3rd dry park.

Either way, Middle Earth = $. Tolkien Estate is definitely going to be willing to participate at these values. The 2020s could be huge for them with a combined TV and theme parks launch.

Merchandise percentages come into play big time also. Sometimes that's the deal breaker.

 

[Scott W.]

Yes, like you I was able to come up with nine of the ten. Perhaps the tenth is the Lost Continent replacement.

That would be my bet. I've still to watch HTTYD but everybody else seemed so pumped about the idea of it replacing Lost Continent that I'm on board with the idea.

 

[JonsMovies]

I feel like if the new park consists of, say, Lord of the Rings, Legend of Zelda, How to Train Your Dragon, Kung Fu Panda, and Fantastic Beasts, I think you could get decent cohesion out of that. All consist of beautiful, detailed environments that take place in "fantasy" environments from the past. One could argue Shrek fits in there as well. However, if Star Trek is also supposed to be in Park 3, I have no idea how that'd fit in with the rest.

I agree and like this park concept better than most. Considering we expect all IP lands, I think LOTR is the absolute best anchor for it. It also fits best with the name I hope that they use: Universal Legends

 

[Mad Dog]

And the key phrase was "at least ten D/E tickets" planned for the two existing parks, that they knew of...... There may be more.

 

[Viator]

Yes, like you I was able to come up with nine of the ten. Perhaps the tenth is the Lost Continent replacement.

The only reason why I didn't put in Christmas Wonderland, is simply due in part to that it exceeds the 10 count.

Now, if there WERE to be more than ten, I would of placed it in there, as to be frank; I'd rather have that than Berk.

 

[Mad Dog]

The only reason why I didn't put in Christmas Wonderland, is simply due in part to that it exceeds the 10 count.

Now, if there WERE to be more than ten, I would of placed it in there, as to be frank; I'd rather have that than Berk.

I keep throwing that one around in my mind. My first reaction was no way Christmas all year round stuff. But then, after giving it some thought and mulling around the possibilities, I came to the conclusion that it just might work in a pretty big way (merchandise & food for sure). But it would be a risk. I think that's a concept they'd need to survey like crazy before they decided to go with it......And besides the 10 or more D/E tickets, there's always room for a C/B ticket or two or three or four.

 

[Legacy]

The only reason why I didn't put in Christmas Wonderland, is simply due in part to that it exceeds the 10 count.

Now, if there WERE to be more than ten, I would of placed it in there, as to be frank; I'd rather have that than Berk.

Get out.

I feel like Berk belongs in Islands. I'm sure the Happy Holiday Hovel would be quality, but with so much woodsy, medieval stuff inline for P4rk, it needs to be there. A festive, bright land would stand out much more strongly between Mordor and Hyrule. It would just kinda blur into Suess.

 

[zg44]

Merchandise percentages come into play big time also. Sometimes that's the deal breaker.

Yeah I think the advantage Universal has is that they're really the only plausible buyer, and they have the Harry Potter contract as a good example of the terms they need for a profitable contract for both sides. They won't be bidding against anyone.

I'd imagine that Tolkien Estate will want theme park rights set up after the TV show contracts are signed.

 

[Mad Dog]

Yeah I think the advantage Universal has is that they're really the only plausible buyer, and they have the Harry Potter contract as a good example of the terms they need for a profitable contract for both sides. They won't be bidding against anyone.

I'd imagine that Tolkien Estate will want theme park rights set up after the TV show contracts are signed.

Yes. Sounds like everything is lining up to fall into place, step by step. The floodgates have opened. Money will flow, and everything will follow fairly quickly once the money spigot opens......I would guess this sudden opening for LOTR may be causing Universal to re evaluate timelines for a few of their projects and the mix between the existing parks and the new park. LOTR is just about the perfect fit for the new park, not just for it's strength as an IP, but for it's almost perfect look for a Disney Sea type park. Great landscapes, castles, villages etc. would really lend themselves to a Disney Sea approach. I could certainly see two LOTR themed lands for the new park, with a really dynamic restaurant or two and a Disney level show. Attractions are limitless. Even C tickets could be pretty decent due to the theme. Certainly two or three E/D tickets for the IP.

 

[zg44]

Yes. Sounds like everything is lining up to fall into place, step by step. The floodgates have opened. Money will flow, and everything will follow fairly quickly once the money spigot opens......I would guess this sudden opening for LOTR may be causing Universal to re evaluate timelines for a few of their projects and the mix between the existing parks and the new park. LOTR is just about the perfect fit for the new park, not just for it's strength as an IP, but for it's almost perfect look for a Disney Sea type park. Great landscapes, castles, villages etc. would really lend themselves to a Disney Sea approach. I could certainly see two LOTR themed lands for the new park, with a really dynamic restaurant or two and a Disney level show. Attractions are limitless. Even C tickets could be pretty decent due to the theme. Certainly two or three E/D tickets for the IP.

As far as timing goes, my hunch is that it would take roughly 3.5-4 years for the first LOTR TV episodes to be put on Amazon or whatever service gets them. GoT took 5 years from rights signing to airing, but it was also a lot more speculative with a smaller budget at the start; LOTR won't have any of those sorts of issues, there will be twice as much money put into LOTR's pilot and first season, and the turnaround should be faster, especially with an upfront rights fee of $200-250 million.

So you're looking at something like 2021 for the TV show to start generating headlines/buzz, etc. That'd also allow Game of Thrones to be in the "past" as well with GoT's last season airing by 2019.

For Universal, I'd guess that they'd want IoA to get its Middle Earth land (perhaps Shire) around 2021 or 2022 (to match the first season airing if possible), so you'd be looking at an announcement 3 years prior for that. And then of course, whenever dry park #3 is ready (2023-2025), it'd have the rest of Middle Earth.

Either way, the cross-promotional aspect of having LOTR as the top show on Amazon Prime (or where-ever it lands) to go alongside the rollout of IoA and the 3rd dry park would be extremely attractive.

 

[Teebin]

One day I have a whim to peek to see what is going on with the LOTR lawsuit and look at us now!

 

[Magic-Man]

Yes, like you I was able to come up with nine of the ten. Perhaps the tenth is the Lost Continent replacement.

Is Pokemon a single ride, or is it a land? Sorry if this is off topic

 

[Viator]

Is Pokemon a single ride, or is it a land? Sorry if this is off topic

I believe what @Disneyhead said is that MiB will be flattened.

 

[Mad Dog]

Is Pokemon a single ride, or is it a land? Sorry if this is off topic

I believe Dave was referring to whatever goes there as a mini land. He was only guessing on Pokemon as the Nintendo IP.

 

[Scott W.]

It really makes you wonder with all the big things coming, what Universal are holding back for the new park?

All the talk a year ago about the grand plan of making the current resort in tip top shape is making a lot more sense now.

 

[captainmoch]

Man, I am so thirsty for some definitive information on this new park. I hope we at least see ground broken on the resort sometime next year, if not an official announcement of a new project.

 

[zg44]

May need to slow the horses down; still no sign of a settlement and in fact Universal is still pushing to get access to the various documents with a new subpoena in court as of Nov. 3. Of course, that document was probably produced under the assumption that it would be filed if there was no settlement from the mediation talks on Nov. 2.

This lawsuit may end up going until the very last second when a judge would determine the issue next year. It sounds like both parties are waiting until the pressure ratchets up...

Reality is, I'd still bet on the lawsuit being settled before a judge determines the outcome, but it may take every possible minute/second until then...

 

[Scott W.]

Man, I am so thirsty for some definitive information on this new park. I hope we at least see ground broken on the resort sometime next year, if not an official announcement of a new project.

I'm just thirsty for some definitive information beyond F&F and the very little we know about the new Potter coaster and the T2 replacement. I think we'll be waiting a few years before we get any info about the new land beyond that something is happening in the future.