Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Nick]

To me, it makes much more sense for Mushroom Kingdom to headline a third park as I said this morning. I just don't see that park as having the headliner IP they need otherwise.

 

[JungleSkip]

To me, it makes much more sense for Mushroom Kingdom to headline a third park as I said this morning. I just don't see that park as having the headliner IP they need otherwise.

If they had LOTR it’d be that. Otherwise yea

 

[Nick]

If they had LOTR it’d be that. Otherwise yea

Ehhh... LotR tends to have an older fan base at this point whereas Nintendo has fans of all kinds. Sure LotR has younger fans, but it isn't going to be Potter for theme park popularity and I don't think it will be as popular as Mushroom Kingdom either. It really does all come down to rides I guess, but the question is, what rides do you build for a LotR area? Nothing sticks out as obvious besides maybe a water ride.

I said it earlier - I don't think LotR is going to be as popular as everyone expects it to be.

 

[JungleSkip]

Ehhh... LotR tends to have an older fan base at this point whereas Nintendo has fans of all kinds. Sure LotR has younger fans, but it isn't going to be Potter for theme park popularity and I don't think it will be as popular as Mushroom Kingdom either. It really does all come down to rides I guess, but the question is, what rides do you build for a LotR area? Nothing sticks out as obvious besides maybe a water ride.

I said it earlier - I don't think LotR is going to be as popular as everyone expects it to be.

I think you’re crazy.

LOTR hasn’t stayed on top of the fantasy genre for 60+ years on older fans alone. IDK if it’d be Potter, but it’s be huge, especially if they did a good job of building impressive lands

 

[jtsalien]

I guess I also don't get the need for a "headline" IP? :shrug:

The new park is the headline. Part of the reason Star Wars and Potter are the icons they are, is because they're so damn unique. We've seen with Avatar that trying to shoehorn other IPs into that formula just doesn't work. The reality is they'll make the same amount of money if guests spend their money spread across several immersive and attractive lands, than a Potter v1 and rest if IOA setup.

And the idea of any Nintendo stuff being weenies or icons also doesn't hold water with me. Uni doesn't do the hub and spoke model, and IOA and USF both have their icons not only in front, but outside of the park.

Could Nintendo have been moved for more room? Less limitations? Possibly. But to headline the next park? That's doubtful to me.

 

[Nick]

I think you’re crazy.

LOTR hasn’t stayed on top of the fantasy genre for 60+ years on older fans alone. IDK if it’d be Potter, but it’s be huge, especially if they did a good job of building impressive lands

I mean it would be popular, but I still think Mario would be the bigger draw and if both prove to be very popular then you have yourself two huge headliners for a 3rd park (plus whatever else they choose to build around that stuff). I think even if they have LotR it's smart to built Mushroom Kingdom over there as it would make the park more stable from the jump, unlike DHS and DAK, which were built as half-day parks and still haven't recovered from the lack of attractions at opening.

 

[JungleSkip]

I mean it would be popular, but I still think Mario would be the bigger draw and if both prove to be very popular then you have yourself two huge headliners for a 3rd park (plus whatever else they choose to build around that stuff). I think even if they have LotR it's smart to built Mushroom Kingdom over there as it would make the park more stable from the jump, unlike DHS and DAK, which were built as half-day parks and still haven't recovered from the lack of attractions at opening.

Oh I think putting them in the same park is a good idea too. Even then, I don’t think we have to worry about the park being a 1/2 dayer

 

[zg44]

It could very well settle after that, giving he parties a better idea how much they can/should demand before it goes to trial. I mean, the huge google/uber trial settled several days into the trial the other week.

That's possible, but I think the case could end on summary judgment given that it seems pretty clear cut that either Universal can build or cannot based on the master declaration and whether it still applies. I'm not sure as a matter of law that this needs to go to trial.

That's possibly why I think the settlement attempt may occur before that summary judgment hearing.

 

[Mike S]

There is no doubt Universal has drawn up concept plans of it both ways. And for me, its just too hard to envision what else Universal has that will make its new park competitive with Magic Kingdom. And all indications are they're ready to get park #3 open ASAP. Pouring resources into IOA or USO will not make that happen.

Also, we don't even know of Universal has permission to use Pokemon at this point, but even if they do, I'd expect that in the new park too. All rumors point to making the new park targeted at a younger age, and putting both in there is the way to do it. Universal's existing parks already have that stigma that they're for a little older kids, and it'd be hard to convert that. Especially by removing Kidzone.

I said it before, when the walls came down, and was ridiculed, but I stand by it: there's a real good chance its going to the new park, with Kid Zone being kept as a backup with developed plans just in case things don't move along the right speed or how they want in the lawsuit.

I guess I’m rooting for the lawsuit to not go well then.

 

[chewbacca1995]

The 3rd gate could do well with this kind of lineup:

-Entry plaza
-Middle Earth (2 E-tickets, 1 C-ticket, 1 B-ticket)
-Mushroom Kingdom (Mario Kart E-ticket dark ride, Donkey Kong D-ticket coaster, Diddy Kong C-ticket water play area, Yoshi C-ticket dark ride, WarioWare B-ticket flat ride like Mater's, Captain Toad B-ticket flat ride as a unique variant on a ferris wheel, Peach B-ticket flat ride like Flik's Flyers, Luigi's Mansion walkthrough - similar lineup as most of Disney's Fantasylands)
-Pokeworld (1 E-ticket - Kilimanjaro-esque Pokémon Snap adventure in the Safari Zone, 2 C-tickets - Fantasyland-style dark ride and interactive show, and 3 B-tickets - a carousel with popular non-flying/water Pokemon, play area and Dumbo-style spinner with all the flying Pokémon)
-Hyrule (1 E-ticket - Wind Waker using Shanghai Pirates tech and adding 35-foot and 25-foot drops, 1 D-ticket, 1 C-ticket)
-DreamWorks Village (1 E-ticket - HTTYD suspended indoor/outdoor coaster, 2 D-tickets - Shrek log flume and KFP dark ride, 1 C-ticket - Madagascar stage show, and 2 B-tickets - Trolls flat ride like Storm Force, only enclosed with 4K 360-degree screens and more SFX, and Croods mini-chairswings flat ride)
-Transylvania/horror area (2 E-tickets - retooled Van Helsing dark ride and Wolfman launched coaster, 1 D-ticket - Creature From the Black Lagoon dark ride similar to TDS' 20K, 1 C-ticket - Bates Motel walkthrough/Alien Encounter-esque show)
-Jurassic World (1 E-ticket - people-eating Gyrosphere dark ride, 1 D-ticket - aquatic dino show, 1 C-ticket - jr. woodie coaster featuring an amber mine and raptor chase/rescue)

Of course, that seems more like a 25-year-old park than one on its opening day

-

 

[Nick]

I guess I’m rooting for the lawsuit to not go well then.

So you want the lawsuit against them building a third park to succeed so that they build a Nintendo Land at USF slightly quicker than they would if they built it at a new park? :saywhat:

If they started Today on Nintendo a USF, it wouldn't be complete until sometime in 2021 at the ealiest based on how long it took to build Diagon.

 

[Mike S]

So you want the lawsuit against them building a third park to succeed so that they build a Nintendo Land at USF slightly quicker than they would if they built it at a new park? :saywhat:

If they started Today on Nintendo a USF, it wouldn't be complete until sometime in 2021 at the ealiest based on how long it took to build Diagon.

How fast do people here really think building the new park and it’s associated infrastructure to take? I’m thinking at the earliest 2023 and that’s if they started now.

 

[GoUCFKnights]

How fast do people here really think building the new park and it’s associated infrastructure to take? I’m thinking at the earliest 2023 and that’s if they started now.

IOA took 6 years from the initial announcement to opening, with 2 years of construction. They've already basically announced the intentions, and its likely they could move faster then IOA, that was believed to be delayed a couple years. Its very possible it could be done for 2021 if they were to start now, but they likely won't start for another year. In some ways, a new park on empty land is easier, as they don't have to worry about any existing utilities or infrastructure and how to integrate with it, or the problems that arise from things not being quite as expected. With it being far from the existing park as well as homes and such, its also likely hours of construction are more flexible, and less concern with trying to hide stuff and keep the existing pathways opened.

Keep in mind indications are Universal is expected to start work on the backstage and infrastructure in a matter of months, with apparently some plans ready to go.

 

[Nick]

How fast do people here really think building the new park and it’s associated infrastructure to take? I’m thinking at the earliest 2023 and that’s if they started now.

I agree 2023-ish. Probably later.

I guess maybe I just am not dying to visit it as much as you, but I see Nintendo as the ace up their sleeve. They can afford to sit on it for awhile and decide what to do as the property is evergreen. It's not something that needs to instantly be built to take advantage of how popular it is in the moment.

 

[Happytycho]

How fast do people here really think building the new park and it’s associated infrastructure to take? I’m thinking at the earliest 2023 and that’s if they started now.

If they don't do any more projects at the current parks then I could see land prep beginning late this year, major construction mid-late next year, with the first pieces opening in mid 2022. It would likely be into 2023 at least before they got everything open through.

 

[Mike S]

I agree 2023-ish. Probably later.

I guess maybe I just am not dying to visit it as much as you, but I see Nintendo as the ace up their sleeve. They can afford to sit on it for awhile and decide what to do as the property is evergreen. It's not something that needs to instantly be built to take advantage of how popular it is in the moment.

Now you see the issue.

 

[Mad Dog]

If there's no negative complication/consequences with the Thomas suit, and it's truly fast tracked as some have heard, 2022 should be doable for the new park.....At this point in time,though, just about anyone's guess is as good as anyone else. No one seems to have any solid info of what the end game will be, just some bits and pieces from sources....Heh, a positive is we finally have something to talk about with Universal. They've been a big yawn lately.

 

[Nick]

Now you see the issue.

I guess I just don't take any of what we're talking about in regards to Nintendo with even a grain of salt at this point. We're basically just throwing crap at the wall. Whatever happens, happens.

 

[Mad Dog]

Heh, maybe we should revive that old Kidzone thread from a few years back concerning what we think is going to replace KidZone. We might be back to step one 2013.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Now you see the issue.

Keep in mind that it isn't like Orlando isn't going to be the only one waiting longer.

Beijing, Osaka, and Hollywood are all also important to focus on, and that it isn't like Hollywood is getting Super Nintendo World in 2021. And as far as Beijing goes, you are already constructing a huge new park to be ready by the 2022 Winter (*I had it confused) Olympics.

You need to understand that Universal Creative Is not, and will never be like WDI. They need to find the best plan to have for all of their teams, to make it efficiant for every park in the chain. There are far more exciting things in the immediate, that shouldn't be brushed off, as it shows arrogance and stubbornness (Edit: I don't mean to come across rude, but that while I believe being inspired by something, and wanting to devote to that passion is great, one must always be flexible and open. If we hide ourselves from whatever else the world offers, whether in theme parks, entertainment, or just culture, we will alienate ourselves).

The outcome of the Stan Thomas case, ironically enough, is the most fascinating subject right now. I would even venture to say more than the timeless plumber, because it offers a new ballpark of creative avenues that they can take. Things take time, sure, but that I'd rather wait for them to get it right than to have Hogsmeade/Diagon/Kong level nightmare events of operations. I would rather want to see them prepared, and sure that they are ready, than a company that is undecided of what it truly wants to do with it's own property, in a way that doesn't cost 10 to 15 billion dollars.

At this point, I'm just watching until we get something more concrete than what is going on right now.