Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[s8film40]

Hmm...so the Johnny Morris of Orlando, then? If he's that particular, then I could see an agreement between them not working out. Not without a lot of negotiation, anyway, and what would be in it for Universal? Would Universal even lose a lot of business without some sort of golf course ticket, or would they just keep with the courses they have deals with now, and extend that perk to their UOSouth resort? I've only seen UOR as a possible golf destination through a few packages on their website.

Loews and Universal seem to have a mutually beneficial arrangement going and Universal needs a Premium at their new resort--is there any reason they wouldn't continue to use Loews? I don't see many rumblings about bad blood or shady dealings or anything--their standards seem to mesh at the current UOR.

Just to be clear I really don’t know that much about him. I met him once and have talked with others who have worked in his hotels. I’ve gathered that he has a very hands on approach and it seems like he treats his hotels as “his hotels”. I’m really just guessing though, which is why I was asking what his existing relationship with Universal is like.

Shingle Creek as a hotel to me doesn’t really feel like a great fit as a part of a theme park resort. It seems to have a more high end vibe and a heavy focus on the convention business. Just from my personal experience it seems like the type of hotel that doesn’t need or maybe even want a theme park crowd.

 

[JungleSkip]

Shingle Creek as a hotel to me doesn’t really feel like a great fit as a part of a theme park resort. It seems to have a more high end vibe and a heavy focus on the convention business. Just from my personal experience it seems like the type of hotel that doesn’t need or maybe even want a theme park crowd.

I mean, everyone in town *wants* their share of the theme park crowd. It's still the lifeblood of Orlando.

That being said, yea, Shingle Creek won't be a Universal hotel any time soon.

 

[Scott W.]

My interest with Shingle Creek is the golf course. Wasn't there talk about NBC wanting a golf course at one of the Orlando parks for synergy on their golf coverage?

They wanted a golf course in their original UOR master plan.


https://parkrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/UniCityMasterPlan.jpg

 

[JungleSkip]

Golf is a dying sport. I'd doubt they'll acquire a course at this point, but they already have a golf program that gets you deals at area courses.

 

[GAcoaster]

NBC's Golf Channel is headquartered just across Sand Lake Road from the new property. With so many (top tier) golf courses here in the Orlando area, they don't need to have one as part of the resort, they just need to make/maintain relationships with the neighboring golf course owners. I'm sure that's part of why they host parking for the big tournament each year...

 

[ParkRumors]

I've been meaning to write an article about this but I haven't had the time, so I figured now is as good a time as any to just post an abbreviated version of it here on the forums. Hopefully this is considered on topic for this thread...

While digging through some old Department of Environmental Protection filings I came across a great document from 1997 showing a conceptual master plan for Universals new land back when they initially acquired it and owned a much larger portion.

Much like their original Universal City master plan which was posted above, the new resort area was going to be heavy on the golf and resort areas. They also earmarked space for two new theme parks, one about 300 acres in size and the other about 150 acres. There was also a sizeable retail/entertainment district (kinda hard to see on the map below, but it's under the first golf course to the left of the Golf Villas) and plenty of hotels, totalling 13,000 rooms.

I've included the master plan map below, as well as the project narrative and land use plan. It'll be interesting to see how different their new plans for the land will be some 20+ years later.

 

[JungleSkip]

So it looks like the larger theme park there is where Rosen Shingle creek now lies, correct? Very cool find btw.

You'd think, with the loss of some of the land there, that the golf courses will be replaced with more hotels and the like, to make up for the condensed area.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

I’m willing to bet there’s one course (9 hole?) with a hotel but not multiple courses.

 

[Scott W.]

I've been meaning to write an article about this but I haven't had the time, so I figured now is as good a time as any to just post an abbreviated version of it here on the forums. Hopefully this is considered on topic for this thread...

While digging through some old Department of Environmental Protection filings I came across a great document from 1997 showing a conceptual master plan for Universals new land back when they initially acquired it and owned a much larger portion.

Much like their original Universal City master plan which was posted above, the new resort area was going to be heavy on the golf and resort areas. They also earmarked space for two new theme parks, one about 300 acres in size and the other about 150 acres. There was also a sizeable retail/entertainment district (kinda hard to see on the map below, but it's under the first golf course to the left of the Golf Villas) and plenty of hotels, totalling 13,000 rooms.

I've included the master plan map below, as well as the project narrative and land use plan. It'll be interesting to see how different their new plans for the land will be some 20+ years later.

Great find!

I don’t think people realise just how close this was to happening 20 years ago. After IOA opened, Universal had publically said that they were in the planning stages of a 3 Park.

I think 9/11 and a change of owners ultimately led to this not happening then.

 

[JungleSkip]

I’m willing to bet there’s one course (9 hole?) with a hotel but not multiple courses.

I just don't see it. There's a plethora of inventory in the area, and it takes up valuable land at a time the company is obsessed with adding more and more hotel rooms

 

[quinnmac000]

300 acre park....hmmm. That's my kinda park.

 

[nickwilde]

I just don't see it. There's a plethora of inventory in the area, and it takes up valuable land at a time the company is obsessed with adding more and more hotel rooms

Yeah. What can a golf course eat up, at most a couple hundred people per day? A successful Orlando theme park should pull in two orders of magnitude more people. Consider that theme park tickets are on par with or more expensive with green fees and it's easier to wring revenue out of visitors when they are constantly walking past restaurants, gift shops, and fastpass lines.

Comcast has a LOT of capital, a big tax incentive to spend it, and needs to convince people that a visit to Universal can be a weeklong event. That means that every acre of park matters, because you want to build a MK-like place where people feel like they need more than a day to see it all. A 9 hole golf course with 'destination' appeal could easily eat 70+ acres; that's a dry gate. Even if it's compact, it could easily take up the space of a Volcano Bay-esque water park, which would still absorb a couple thousand people per day.

 

[s8film40]

They’re not going to develop this entire property all at once. Golf courses are very easy to build over, so there’s no reason they couldn’t build one with the intention of eventually replacing it with a hotel or something else. On one hand I don’t think they’re going to rush out to build one, but it could make sense and be more attractive looking than just a vacant plot of land for a decade or so.

 

[Teebin]

It seems they were leaning on the idea that a golf course is cheap to make if you have gobs of land. Now they don’t and so they are going to have to monetize every square inch.

 

[Disneyhead]

Remember that they can build golf courses on land that has other environmental restrictions. The area between Shingle Creek and Shingle Creek Resort is fair game for a golf course and not much else.

 

[nickwilde]

Remember that they can build golf courses on land that has other environmental restrictions. The area between Shingle Creek and Shingle Creek Resort is fair game for a golf course and not much else.

The area between Shingle Creek Golf Course and Shingle Creek is some kind of pine scrub wetland, so it's likely protected from development outright. It's also in a flood zone, so any kind of major terrain alteration that leads to changes in the drainage characteristics would either be illegal or subject to mitigation.

 

[Scott W.]

I'm assuming that Kirkman road is going to be extended at some point? It was in Universal's original master plan for this new resort and Orlando had the same idea before Universal came along.




I think it was @Disneyhead who suggested the idea of that being the main route between the two resorts and it makes a ton of sense.

 

[FatalBubbles]

Golf is a dying sport. I'd doubt they'll acquire a course at this point, but they already have a golf program that gets you deals at area courses.

Is this for real??? Florida is the state with highest golf revenue. The entire industry is around $35B. Having a golf course on site would be a major plus for people.

 

[JungleSkip]

Is this for real??? Florida is the state with highest golf revenue. The entire industry is around $35B. Having a golf course on site would be a major plus for people.

A major plus for a shrinking amount of people. It's not gonna happen.

 

[s8film40]

I certainly wouldn't call golf a dying sport. I'm not a fan of it, but calling it dying is a bit ridiculous. It makes sense in large developments with large unused areas of land which would make it a good fit for this project. It's also pretty much a requirement for any high end (5 Diamond) hotel.