Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[quinnmac000]

This was posted on another site but I think its interesting and what we can expect now on in the near future.

I didn't see this brought up yet but Steve Burke and Ron Meyer came to 30 Rock in New York to do a "leadership spotlight" for all employees at Comcast and NBCUniversal. They were joined via satellite by Universal Creative. The entire presentation was exclusively about the Parks and Resorts division. Savannah Guthrie moderated the discussion and at one point she asked Steve Burke why Comcast is investing so heavily in the theme parks. His response was remarkably detailed and honest. He talked about how he has always loved theme parks both personally and as a business opportunity. He went through the financials for the parks and pointed out how they not only provide stable revenue but they also provide a great opportunity to create a positive image and brand for NBCUniversal as a whole. He said the key to a successful Parks and Resorts division is continued and aggressive investment across the board in rides and attractions. And then he brought up the D-word and said each expansion offers an opportunity to impress a first-time guest and that they plan to challenge the idea that Disney must be the de-facto premiere theme park destination. Universal Creative chimed in toward the end and said Burke actually encourages them to push the envelope and "go bigger." It's almost like this guy wants this to be his personal legacy.

I don't any of us are even close with our speculations on the new expansion or the water park. I think this will be the new golden era of theme park innovation even more so than that of Diagon Alley.

 

[natespf]

This was posted on another site but I think its interesting and what we can expect now on in the near future.



I don't any of us are even close with our speculations on the new expansion or the water park. I think this will be the new golden era of theme park innovation even more so than that of Diagon Alley.

Good points, it's not just about bringing up the parks too, it's about the synergy that all of the branches can build for each other. They do want Universal to be the premier vacation destination, but more importantly they want Comcast to be the premier media mogul.

 

[TylerDurden]

^^Well, yes and no. Im sure nobody can really get a grasp on how fantastic the concept art for all of Universals new ideas look. They must be absolutely phenomenal. But you have to remember that theyre just that...concepts. Just because they can spend money doesnt necessarily mean they should. As rapid as their expansion has been (in terms of quick succession of new projects), Universal has yet to really take a huge risk. Transformers was a clone, Harry Potter is a guaranteed moneymaker, and everything else has been small and rather simple (Springfield, for instance, which pretty much guaranteed an ROI greater than whatever they were making in that location before).

I think Kong will be the first real risk Universal takes so far, and even then, thats only a single attraction that has already proven marketable in Hollywood. If their attendance levels dont hold up post-Diagon, I think its very realistic to kiss any slimmer of a third gate goodbye. As it stands, both parks are far from reaching capacity and if they dont begin reeling it significant amounts of people *consistently*, a third park will be redundant and saturate the resort.

Also, Im of the (unpopular) opinion that Universal has a ways to go before taking the crown from Disney any time soon. As it stands, USF and IOA are still primarily ride parks, and not widely-accessible ones at that (in that most attractions have height restrictions). Universal, IMO, needs more non-ride attractions that can help fill a day, and to be honest, the laughably short parade and weak Cinematic Spectacular dont quite do that yet (before anyone jumps on me about that, I myself have heard within the company that the UCS pales in comparison to Illuminations). When Universal steps up their game in non-ride additions to fully round-out their vacation offerings AND sustain enough visitors to justify their own expenses (Ive heard that they wayyyy overestimated the amount of employees needed last summer to handle the park), THEN I think expansion is possible. But considering their current offerings, I dont think Universal can become Orlando's premier vacation destination *yet*, and dont need much more expansion as of now (although dont get me wrong, I think theyre great at what they do).

Give DA and CBBR a couple of years and then we'll see if the resort can sustain more growth. But for right now, I dont think theyre quite there yet.

 

[quinnmac000]

Well of course we aren't there yet. Its only been 3 years since the awakening started. However, I think of all the ex-imagineers that UC has who left because Disney drained them of their hopes and dreams will come and create magic I think.

[video=youtube;uoNynMa9S4s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoNynMa9S4s[/video]

 

[TylerDurden]

what Im saying is, its not just as simple as addition 1, addition 2, bam third park. Universal hasnt proven massive growth like that effective yet. While youre probably right that our speculation hasnt come close to their concepts, I think everyone may be going overboard with expansion talks as of now.

 

[Nick]

what Im saying is, its not just as simple as addition 1, addition 2, bam third park. Universal hasnt proven massive growth like that effective yet. While youre probably right that our speculation hasnt come close to their concepts, I think everyone may be going overboard with expansion talks as of now.

While I am one that is all for Uni's growth and love their approach to what they're doing, I totally agree.

Like, i could go to MK or Epcot, not ride a single ride, yet still have a great time. I'm sure that I could do that at USF or IOA. Sure the Potter area would side track me for awhile, but I just see there being enough yet.

 

[jarmor]

In America, a park with absolutely no IPs just won't work...

Seems to be working just fine for holiday world...and especially well for dollywood (i think they had a splash of veggie tales but still).

 

[mahnamahna]

Seems to be working just fine for holiday world...and especially well for dollywood (i think they had a splash of veggie tales but still).

Those are primarily regional amusement parks, really nice ones, but not on par with the scope of Epcot... you won't see the immersive attractions that Disney and Universal generally have. Epcot is the only bonafide theme park that went completely without IPs. And that only lasted 3 or 4 years.

Unlike Disney, Universal doesn't quite yet have the draw power that would bring people to the park simply because of the Universal brand name. A 3rd gate wouldn't have to be completely dependent on IPs, but a few big names sprinkled in wouldn't be terrible. It gives the park a way to market itself, and once guests are inside, the immersive, original attractions/areas can sell themselves.

 

[mahnamahna]

While I am one that is all for Uni's growth and love their approach to what they're doing, I totally agree.

Like, i could go to MK or Epcot, not ride a single ride, yet still have a great time. I'm sure that I could do that at USF or IOA. Sure the Potter area would side track me for awhile, but I just see there being enough yet.

If I'm paying $95 to go into the park, there's no way I could have a great time without riding ANYTHING... maybe an okay/fun time, but certainly nothing to write home about. Maybe when I'm over 65, I'll change my mind but as a young whippersnapper, I have to ride at least a couple things before I'd pay those crazy prices to get in. Hall of Presidents, Tiki Room, Country Bears, Philharmagic, Carousel of Progress, Laugh Floor and Stitch's Great Escape - not sure if I'd call that a day worth the price of admission

Universal does need more shows, but really mid level (C and D ticket) attractions are what IOA and USF. Each is going to have 9-10 big boy rides once Kong opens. Add in any future major additions and each park will be stacked in that regard. Smaller scale attractions to flesh out the park would be great :thumbs:

 

[Cole]

Durden put all my thoughts into words. I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon and it's kinda worthless speculating on it. Think about it, why would a park around 10-13 years into the future use IPs that were popular in 2014? Not worth the thought

 

[Teebin]

Durden put all my thoughts into words. I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon and it's kinda worthless speculating on it. Think about it, why would a park around 10-13 years into the future use IPs that were popular in 2014? Not worth the thought

On the other hand, why would a park consider IPs that haven't been popular for 60-80 years. That is what they did with Toon Lagoon.

They will be fine with the grand classics no matter how new or how old. LOTR is an example of the quasi old and Potter is a version of the quasi new. Original ideas are great, but if they go the way of the LC then maybe not.

Does DisneySea have Mickey Mouse running around; meet and greets?

 

[mahnamahna]

Durden put all my thoughts into words. I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon and it's kinda worthless speculating on it. Think about it, why would a park around 10-13 years into the future use IPs that were popular in 2014? Not worth the thought

Well, until we get some intel on KidZone and future IOA additions after Kong, there's not much to speculate/discuss nothing wrong with discussing the 3rd gate - the future tends to be most exciting with theme parks. Universal's rapid expansion is definitely something fun to pay attention to.

I do agree that the 3rd gate isn't coming until 2021 at the earliest. 2024 seems more likely - they probably plan on using the next 5-7 years to expand the options at USF/IOA, get the hotels in place, get their immersive waterpark up and running... after that, I could see more concrete plans for a 3rd gate taking place. Both parks should top 10 million in attendance each before they add a 3rd gate IMO. They don't ever need to reach the 20 million that MK will probably get to by 2021... but over 10 million would make each park fairly comfortable.

Right now, USF/IOA need to focus on rounding out each park -
some small-scale/mid level additions at both parks
nighttime show at IOA
flesh out Seuss (a dark ride, a show and a family coaster would go a long way in removing IOA's "thrill park" stigma)
fix dead areas (Toon Lagoon front area)
address Lost Continent in some way
add more to JP (as the largest island with only one major attraction, another semi-major addition - whether it be a coaster or a dark ride)
KidZone is obviously being addressed
the huge mystery plot
Shrek
Twister
Fear Factor

Hopefully, most of that is taken care of by 2020, but you never know what can happen... the 3rd gate shouldn't be added until they know for certain that they have the necessary infrastructure in place and have their 2 theme parks and 1 water park/theme park hybrid in order.

Right now, a 3rd gate is probably just blue sky

 

[Cole]

On the other hand, why would a park consider IPs that haven't been popular for 60-80 years. That is what they did with Toon Lagoon.

They will be fine with the grand classics no matter how new or how old. LOTR is an example of the quasi old and Potter is a version of the quasi new. Original ideas are great, but if they go the way of the LC then maybe not.

Does DisneySea have Mickey Mouse running around; meet and greets?

Classics are a given for the new park I'm just saying it's too soon to judge. What if the biggest movie of all time comes out during this decade that just creates an entire world and blows everybody's minds? Anything can happen so I wouldn't worry about it just yet, there is such a thing as looking too far into the future especially on projects that aren't even zygotes yet

 

[Teebin]

Classics are a given for the new park I'm just saying it's too soon to judge. What if the biggest movie of all time comes out during this decade that just creates an entire world and blows everybody's minds? Anything can happen so I wouldn't worry about it just yet, there is such a thing as looking too far into the future especially on projects that aren't even zygotes yet

Yeah, and for some reason, a certain company thinks it was Avatar, which I really enjoyed, but.

 

[maxairmike]

On the other hand, why would a park consider IPs that haven't been popular for 60-80 years. That is what they did with Toon Lagoon.

They will be fine with the grand classics no matter how new or how old. LOTR is an example of the quasi old and Potter is a version of the quasi new. Original ideas are great, but if they go the way of the LC then maybe not.

Does DisneySea have Mickey Mouse running around; meet and greets?

Honestly, I've barely even glanced at a single post with all the IP/content talk other than to make sure some of the longer ones don't have a question/bit of info on actual land transactions and that sort of stuff. Once we've seen that happen to a point we can pin it down and say "Yes, Universal moved on adding this land area" I have no interest.

 

[Cole]

Yeah, and for some reason, a certain company thinks it was Avatar, which I really enjoyed, but.

But it's getting sequels that will probably be better than the first. I think the land will get better by time but hey that's just me.

The answers of all the lands will be obvious by the time this park comes out. I'm almost positive no creative member has this on their minds as we speak. There is not one member purposefully holding things off for this "third gate". In a couple years maybe but I don't think we will be getting any kind of hint or clue about it anytime soon

 

[quinnmac000]

You do know Parks fluctuate a lot. Disney's attendance at MK in 1992 was at 18 million, its highest peak then the very next year dropped to 10 and slowly went back up with the opening of Animal kingdom and then went dipped then now finally are starting to get back to the level it was 20 years ago. So this the parks aren't full now why would they add a park, one I don't want Universal waiting for the walkways to get blocked by families with a 5 wide strollers, two I actually want to be able to enjoy the parks without Express Pass, 3 I want Universal to become a premier hot spot.

IP popularity doesn't matter. Splash Mountain is based on Disney's most racist movie and yet one of the most popular rides. Also Universal already be that time will be big if they continue adding immerse environments and well known IP to their two established parks. You just need to let the creative team make something worth while that gets people pumped. Then they need to let the creative people be creative.

 

[DufflesMcGee]

Honestly, I've barely even glanced at a single post with all the IP/content talk other than to make sure some of the longer ones don't have a question/bit of info on actual land transactions and that sort of stuff. Once we've seen that happen to a point we can pin it down and say "Yes, Universal moved on adding this land area" I have no interest.

^^^This. Once we see that the land has been bought, then I would say we should start discussing. I hope they buy the land on S. kirkland and major for the expansion. and I hope this area isnt a park but more hotels, retail, shopping, maybe some night time thrill rides. For me, the perfect thing to put here is something like clarke quay in singapore. Think of it as a modern new orleans nightlife king of place but better

According to the map and tool i used that land is only 160.45 acres. IOA is about 80 acres. I would say, dont use that land for a 3rd gate that is all supposed to be DA quality. Hopefully they do get this area, some area on Int. drive and Major Blvd.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I'm going to say this before I talk into this but I also do not think only that a Third Gate isn't happening soon but expect that like Late 2020s. I might be wrong about that but its my opinion. Anywho, I've been thinking on which IPS will not come if there is a third gate so here:

Shrek (No matter What this thing will leave the resort Permantly)
Potter (They Have to LIMIT it somewhere and that limit will be with Phase III)
Fast And Furious (Either going into Disaster or Mib or that big dirt lot next to Mib)
Mummy (I have a feeling Mummy is just going to get Revamped plain and simple)
Grinch (It will most likely just Stay in IOA and IOA only)
DCLand (I wish I was wrong but if the Contract with Six Flags doesn't expire then forget it)

Those for right now is just a no for me and its my opinion.

 

[mahnamahna]

I'm going to say this before I talk into this but I also do not think only that a Third Gate isn't happening soon but expect that like Late 2020s. I might be wrong about that but its my opinion. Anywho, I've been thinking on which IPS will not come if there is a third gate so here:

Shrek (No matter What this thing will leave the resort Permantly)
Potter (They Have to LIMIT it somewhere and that limit will be with Phase III)
Fast And Furious (Either going into Disaster or Mib or that big dirt lot next to Mib)
Mummy (I have a feeling Mummy is just going to get Revamped plain and simple)
Grinch (It will most likely just Stay in IOA and IOA only)
DCLand (I wish I was wrong but if the Contract with Six Flags doesn't expire then forget it)

Those for right now is just a no for me and its my opinion.

I wouldn't say a 3rd gate ISN'T happening... obviously, we also can't say it is. Right now, they've got a million other things to worry about, but a DisneySea-level 3rd gate should come sooner than late 2020s. For 'Murica's sake I'd expect 2021-2024 - not too soon and enough time to round out their current parks and get the 7-8 hotels, new parking garages, etc... that they need to sustain 3 parks' worth of guests.

With how fast Comcast has been getting things done lately, I can't imagine they'd take that long for the 3rd gate. Especially since Disney very well might start plans for a 5th gate near the 50th.

Of course, nothing's locked in stone. We'll have to just wait and see, I guess :thumbs: