Universal Studios Florida: What Do We Think About It?

[TheCodeMan95]

FARTs

lol

 

[MrRoamer]

lol... I don't know how much analysis needs to be done when ThrillData pretty much has done it.

Either way, I'm not disagreeing that it's "not dead" or that it's "Not a Quiet Season" - but it's still the Slow season. The wait times and trends show that. The ticket prices show that. Hell, why do you think we have events going on now? lol You think Disney chose FARTs to happen in January-Feb to break attendance records?


Yea - that's a big assumption, with an example that I don't believe has ever happened? lol



In your case - you chose a 2-park, 1-day ticket - so you're math also doesn't add up because it doesn't take the value of the ability to hop between 2 parks within operating hours. Furthermore, in your example, the more likely scenario is someone who is on vacation and getting a longer-length ticket - which costs considerably less. But for the sake of the argument, the more apt comparison would be a 1-day, 1-park... (admittedly, it's hard to really do these comparisons because every scenario is going to be different but at least this is a baseline)

So if we use USF's 1-day for today vs Thursday, 3/28's $169 (the most expensive coming up)

$144 for 10 hours = $14.40 per hour
$169 for 12 hours = $14.08 per hour

So for 2 fewer park hours - a difference of 0.32 cents p/h...

The problem though, is we aren't paying for the hour. You're paying for entry. The same way a movie ticket is $15, no matter a 90-minute film or a 3-hour film.

Theme parks used to operate under the one price for all, and switched to In-Demand pricing to try to "lure and encourage" guests to come in the slower season. Even if it's $25 cheaper, it's still cheaper. The trade-off is you're paying $25 less to go during a less crowded time, and in this case, there are some seasonal closures. The trade-off for paying more is more park hours to make up for the crowds you're going to deal with. And that $25 in savings becomes bigger when you start paying for 4-5 tickets.

I 100% definitely messed up on the ticket so the pricing calculations on that are inaccurate or sure. We'll go with your math as putting it close which is certainly better.

I am going to respectfully disagree with the assumption that the times not being posted accurately at booking or even day of never happening because I know for a fact it can happen. I also know that people do buy single day passes if they suddenly have an opportunity during a vacation to Disney or a conference.

I think people do associate slow season with more time to do what you want. I've never seen them run an ad for the off season with less temporary closures as a selling point.

I will not concede that Express pass is buying time though which does change the paying for entry to the park discussion.

 

[Brian G.]

I am going to respectfully disagree with the assumption that the times not being posted accurately at booking or even day of never happening because I know for a fact it can happen.

Can happen and has happened are very big differences. I cannot recollect any time recently where that has happened, and I'd say that in the event I am wrong, the chances that it happened is maybe once? That's a very, random, unusually specific example to use to paint a broad picture.

I also know that people do buy single day passes if they suddenly have an opportunity during a vacation to Disney or a conference.

Oh, I'm sure there are! But the average expected visitor that the parks try to market and cater to is usually a family of 4 for weekend or longer vacations.

I've never seen them run an ad for the off season with less temporary closures as a selling point.

Well yea! haha No one would run an ad for that. Same way you wouldn't invite someone over to your house with the tagline "Come over, we haven't done our weekly cleaning yet!"

But they are upfront about it when its planned. They were very upfront about the water rides being down, Hogwarts Express, and Volcano Bay; and the other rides that run maintenance are done after park hours (in which the shorter park hours allow for more of).

I will not concede that Express pass is buying time though which does change the paying for entry to the park discussion.

I'm only saying that during this time, you don't need to purchase Express. Right now, per ThrillData, the highest waits are Hagrids and VC - the 2 most popular rides. The average wait time for all others is 20 minutes.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

I haven't responded cause I'm going to spend some time looking at data from the analysis I posted somewhere here last year, but regarding advanced notice of refurbs... no park is ever perfect. Universal only gave a month's notice last year for the Hagrid refurb.

 

[Rhian]

If there was truly a pent-up demand for evening hours, UOR would know it and would be collecting that money.

Locals wanting to stop by the park after work during the week sounds like pent up demand, but it's written off as an option because the parks aren't open reliably open later.

There's a little bit of a chicken and egg happening in this discussion. I'd also be disappointed if I had an annual pass and couldn't make it to the parks after works. That's something we used to do regularly when we had Disneyland passes, but can't at Knott's (I realize that's not analogous to WDW/UOR).

...

Universal can change that, but even if they opened up multiple high-quality (and expensive) restaurants and added a nighttime show this summer, I don't think it'd be like flipping a light switch. It would take some time for the resort to cultivate a culture that encourages guests to hang out deep into the night.

(using this post as emphasis)

Guests don't say late because Universal doesn't say open late because guests don't stay late because…

Universal has to take the step to break that cycle and reputation of being a day-only park from the perspective of the general public.

Well, Disneyland is known to have consistent park operating hours. At least staying open to 10PM-12PM most nights (including weekends and in the middle of a suburb) ... and they only have a 1/3 of UOR's resort room capacity.

(more emphasis)

Universal has done a lot of work to gain a reputation of being a great resort that can compete with Disney, and part of why both Epic and SNW has a lot of people looking forward to it. They now know (because of HP) what kind of experience they're getting. It's still known for not having a lot to do after 5PM.

If we were ever to see them change this it would be around Epic's opening since things need to be better synced up between the "two" resorts (Uni North and Uni South lol). It could be extra frustrating for guests to keep track of changing hours next year on top of all that.

What you're comparing it to is "Gotcha" tactics - but park hours are listed well in advance, along with refurbishments. While I'm not a fan of the late opening in USF, it does only impact 4 rides for an hour (everyone’s heading to the popular ones anyway) - and if a guest isn't pleased, it's nothing a trip to GS can't fix. The problem with having a park open 365 is that the slower season is also when they get basic maintenance done on rides.

Sure, the vacation packages should be cheaper if it's during a slower period to encourage guests to book a trip as that would increase attendance, just don't also cut their hours just because of it. I think seasonal maintenance closures are understandable, but the lesser hours not so much (this goes back to the chicken/egg talk).


All that said though I do think we're seeing Universal finally make that turn with the new options coming, even if they're not the most headline-catching. Since they're pushing the idea nightlife of Celestial Park already I suspect we'll see the other two parks have some scheduling changes. Again, it's literally years of perception that has to be altered and that takes time.

Worst case scenario is they keep the hours short and force everyone into EU for nighttime park experience. You know, before they close the lands early and hold everyone in CP.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

Locals wanting to stop by the park after work during the week sounds like pent up demand, but it's written off as an option because the parks aren't open reliably open later.

It seems like the crux of this whole issue comes down to this, but it’s such a wildly specific niche that it’s not even a segment worth entertaining. There are about 2 million Orlando residents…if 2% of them had Annual Passes to Universal, they could all fill up both parks on a weeknight after work, but unless they all went every single night all at the same time then permanently changing operating hours wouldn’t be worth the squeeze for Universal.

The resort has 30+ years of operational experience to know the traffic patterns and behavior of their consumers. And I say that as someone who is a local who wishes I had the time to go after work…it would be awesome, but not worth changing the entire staffing and ops model for.

 

[SeventyOne]

It seems like the crux of this whole issue comes down to this, but it’s such a wildly specific niche that it’s not even a segment worth entertaining. There are about 2 million Orlando residents…if 2% of them had Annual Passes to Universal, they could all fill up both parks on a weeknight after work, but unless they all went every single night all at the same time then permanently changing operating hours wouldn’t be worth the squeeze for Universal.

The resort has 30+ years of operational experience to know the traffic patterns and behavior of their consumers. And I say that as someone who is a local who wishes I had the time to go after work…it would be awesome, but not worth changing the entire staffing and ops model for.

The actual numbers are under lock and key but WDWMagic has always kind of accepted that roughly 10% of WDW guests are locals. And obviously not every local wants to stay past dinner (or come after work). So yeah, this is a niche market probably not worth catering to.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

The actual numbers are under lock and key but WDWMagic has always kind of accepted that roughly 10% of WDW guests are locals. And obviously not every local wants to stay past dinner (or come after work). So yeah, this is a niche market probably not worth catering to.

That's honestly higher than I even would have expected lol

 

[UniversalRBLX]

The resort has 30+ years of operational experience to know the traffic patterns and behavior of their consumers. And I say that as someone who is a local who wishes I had the time to go after work…it would be awesome, but not worth changing the entire staffing and ops model for.

I'd argue that even though they have 30 years of experience, a lot of that comes from the pre-Potter days when they only had 3 resort hotels and nearly 1/3 the attendance today.

The actual numbers are under lock and key but WDWMagic has always kind of accepted that roughly 10% of WDW guests are locals. And obviously not every local wants to stay past dinner (or come after work). So yeah, this is a niche market probably not worth catering to.

I don't think Universal should keep parks open late solely for APs, my (and others) original comment was mainly derived that as an AP it makes it difficult to visit UOR during the weekdays after work. BUT, considering that Universal is now a year round destination that has a consistent attendance level thanks to onsite resorts, it should lead to more consistent hours now.

Either way, I think we can call agree Universal shouldn't be closing IOA before 8PM on a daily basis, let alone 6PM on Friday's for special events.

 

[Brian G.]

I'd argue that even though they have 30 years of experience, a lot of that comes from the pre-Potter days when they only had 3 resort hotels and nearly 1/3 the attendance today.


I don't think Universal should keep parks open late solely for APs, my (and others) original comment was mainly derived that as an AP it makes it difficult to visit UOR during the weekdays after work. BUT, considering that Universal is now a year round destination that has a consistent attendance level thanks to onsite resorts, it should lead to more consistent hours now.

Either way, I think we can call agree Universal shouldn't be closing IOA before 8PM on a daily basis, let alone 6PM on Friday's for special events.

Potter has been open for 14 years. We’re not that far off from the Resort knowing a world with Potter than without. That’s plenty of data.

 

[Tbad556]

Potter has been open for 14 years. We’re not that far off from the Resort knowing a world with Potter than without.

It's too early on a Monday morning for that, man

 

[TheCodeMan95]

It's too early on a Monday morning for that, man

In 10 years Potter will have been around for over half of Universal's lifespan

 

[Rhian]

It seems like the crux of this whole issue comes down to this, but it’s such a wildly specific niche that it’s not even a segment worth entertaining. There are about 2 million Orlando residents…if 2% of them had Annual Passes to Universal, they could all fill up both parks on a weeknight after work, but unless they all went every single night all at the same time then permanently changing operating hours wouldn’t be worth the squeeze for Universal.

The resort has 30+ years of operational experience to know the traffic patterns and behavior of their consumers. And I say that as someone who is a local who wishes I had the time to go after work…it would be awesome, but not worth changing the entire staffing and ops model for.

I’m currently not a passholder and haven’t been for some time so you could say I’m speaking as a "normal" day guest.

There may be less desire to be around later at night but the late openings and early closings only paints them in a bad light. If you're going to be open banker hours, my family that chose to take a vacation in the slow time (remember both UOR and Disney are trying to get people to do this) should not be punished. It is further exasperated by having one of their 3 main festivals going on at the same time.

Sure it may help them not staff as many people or use less electricity or whatever reasons they could use to explain it, but that does nothing to a family that is essentially being forced to buy Express Passes which in order to get everything done.

I've harped on it a dozen different times at least, but its my biggest gripe. You cannot at the same time Sell Time and also Take Time away from people, that is a dirty business practice and should not be encouraged. Taking Time comes in lots of different forms understaffing general operations, understaffing food operations, reducing ride capacity, opening rides late, closing down parts of or entire parks, poor maintenance, etc.

When I do go I sometimes experience aspects of this. I don’t have the luxury to step in anytime I want; I used to and miss being able to. The slower periods are good to not feel rushed with the busier and/or holiday crowds. I don’t have money to spring for Express passes.

To put it differently in terms of planning look at how much Universal’s hours can differ in a single week. This is their current schedule posted:

April 14: IoA/US closes at 8/7 respectively
April 15: 7/7
April 16-17: 8/7
April 18: 8/8
April 19-20: 7/6 (on a Friday/Saturday???)
April 21: 8/7

Comparatively, CityWalk has managed to consistently close at midnight or 1am any day of the year; you could reliably plan dinner around it and have been able to do so for years.

The random closing times give a mom and pop shop vibe and the parks are definitely not that anymore. The “poor Universal” argument doesn’t hold weight because we’re not dealing with Universal of yesteryear.

Even if the parks weren’t open until 9PM all the time normalizing the hours so they’re predictable would go a long way. This goes back to Universal needing to make operational adjustments and make them a habit for more than a few months or a single year.

That is if they want to create and grow a nighttime audience of course. Actually having reason to stay would go a long way too. I'm hoping the new nighttime show will be scheduled just before park close and the hours are extended to encourage more guests to stay and stay later.

(Before anyone points it out I’m aware the parks open earlier on some of those days. There’s a separate thing about not waning to feel like I *need* to wake up early and rush to the parks like it’s a job—it’s supposed to be a vacation!)

Potter has been open for 14 years. We’re not that far off from the Resort knowing a world with Potter than without. That’s plenty of data.

There's more to theme parks than spreadsheets and graphs.

Something something old habits are hard to break.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Potter has been open for 14 years. We’re not that far off from the Resort knowing a world with Potter than without. That’s plenty of data.

Doesn't feel like that though with their operations. Nearly 15 years of massive success and "record-breaking" profits YoY and we still get 6-7PM closures for private events on weekends.

 

[OrlandoGuy]

I’m currently not a passholder and haven’t been for some time so you could say I’m speaking as a "normal" day guest.

Honestly I think that might be even more of an edge case than local pass holders though…

(Before anyone points it out I’m aware the parks open earlier on some of those days. There’s a separate thing about not waning to feel like I *need* to wake up early and rush to the parks like it’s a job—it’s supposed to be a vacation!)

I used to feel the same way when I worked there…forcing myself to get to work at 6am during the peak period and pouting about the insane tourists that use their vacation time to wake up at the crack of dawn.

But in reality, almost every vacation destination has an “early bird gets the worm” element to it. Want to see the historic monument without waiting in a huge line? Wake up early. Want to hit that can’t-miss sunrise hike? Wake up early. Trying to hit that one of a kind restaurant that doesn’t accept reservations? You gotta get there early.

And if you choose to sleep in, that’s great but you opt out of those experiences. Hagrid’s is UO’s sunrise hike.

The random closing times give a mom and pop shop vibe and the parks are definitely not that anymore. The “poor Universal” argument doesn’t hold weight because we’re not dealing with Universal of yesteryear.

Even if the parks weren’t open until 9PM all the time normalizing the hours so they’re predictable would go a long way. This goes back to Universal needing to make operational adjustments and make them a habit for more than a few months or a single year.

This is completely valid, IMO… be curious to hear what resort guests think about some of the more sporadic early closures. To be fair, though, the onsite restaurants do have their own decent food options and pools that close late…it’s probably nice for guests to be able to take advantage of hotel amenities without feeling like they’re cutting into park time.

 

[Brian G.]

Doesn't feel like that though with their operations. Nearly 15 years of massive success and "record-breaking" profits YoY and we still get 6-7PM closures for private events on weekends.

RBLX, buddy, this is what we call “goal post moving”

I’ll respond to the other stuff when I get home - but do wanna say the jumping off point of this discussion was closing at 7p on a late Feb Tuesday.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

RBLX, buddy, this is what we call “goal post moving”

I've done nothing of the sort. I've been mentioning this for over a year now. Universal refuses to change its operations to reflect modern day crowds.

 

[Rhian]

Honestly I think that might be even more of an edge case than local pass holders though…

Who could officially know except Universal?

But in reality, almost every vacation destination has an “early bird gets the worm” element to it. Want to see the historic monument without waiting in a huge line? Wake up early. Want to hit that can’t-miss sunrise hike? Wake up early. Trying to hit that one of a kind restaurant that doesn’t accept reservations? You gotta get there early.

And if you choose to sleep in, that’s great but you opt out of those experiences. Hagrid’s is UO’s sunrise hike.

Not arguing against that and I've done my share of early mornings to do things too. That's separate from closing the parks at varying times and adds into the mindset of having to "rush" to do everything before they close 'early'. Egg meets chicken all over again.

Since Universal doesn't post their hours ahead by more than a couple of months you better hope the vacation you planned 3+ months in advance is during one of their longer closing days. I'm used to Universal being like this because they've been like this for so long, which is the entire point and problem.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Short hours were justifiable back then when IOA had attendance levels in the 4.6M million range in 2009 according to THEA. IOA has more than doubled to 11M in 2022... (yes TEA isn't 100% accurate).

Compared to 2009, crowds are more balanced throughout the year... so operating hours should be far more consistent day to day at the very least.

 

[Brian G.]

There's more to theme parks than spreadsheets and graphs.

Something something old habits are hard to break.

Oh for sure. Numbers help paint a picture but don't tell the whole story. The crux of the argument started with why was the park closing on a random Tuesday at the end of February - and based on data, several of our own eyes, ticket prices, etc... it was clear there wasn't much demand for the park to be open past 7p. Even by RBLX's own admission, USF has nothing really to do that would keep people past sundown - especially with no regular nighttime entertainment. The only argument is IOA needs to be open later for VelociCoaster and Hagrid's - but that ignores the rest of the park being dead, and being realistic - we can't expect IOA to remain open til 9 during the slow season for 2 rides.

But park hours consistency - that's a different argument - and agree that the consistency of park hours would be a great adjustment.

Short hours were justifiable back then when IOA had attendance levels in the 4.6M million range in 2009 according to THEA. IOA has more than doubled to 11M in 2022... (yes TEA isn't 100% accurate).

Compared to 2009, crowds are more balanced throughout the year... so operating hours should be far more consistent day to day at the very least.

Hard to use that as any measuring stick outside of crowds growing because it doesn't show trends. Furthermore, big difference in capacity changes, things to do, etc. Mardi Gras wasn't even running every night back then, only on weekends.