DreamWorks Land (Opening June 14, 2024)

[belloq87]

I don't get this line of thinking... because we're still getting Super Nintendo World, we're still getting a kid's area that the park needs (and fixes a different weakness). There are still areas left to expand and/or replace - including this area. There is no "period" at the end of this project.

I'll try to explain my thinking (with the acknowledgment that many here don't see or prioritize things the way I do, so this is purely my perspective):

- I think about Universal's theme parks as distinct, separate experiences. It's great that the resort is still getting SNW (and an entirely new theme park). That does not inherently address what I perceive to be the weaknesses specifically at Universal Studios Florida.

- The weaknesses I perceive at USF include an attraction line-up that is far too heavily tilted in favor of screens and simulator-y experiences. SNW, had it been added to USF, would have included three significant attractions of a primarily physical variety (we can argue about whether the AR aspect of Mario Kart counts as more "screens," but a person can ride that attraction without the AR if they choose, in which case they'll mostly be experiencing a pretty traditional dark ride) by this year or next year, which would have started to rebalance the offerings.

- Of course there's no "period," and there are still plenty of areas at USF that Universal could decide to address at some indefinite point in the future. But again, SNW would have netted the park 2-3 new rides (depending on how much of an upgrade one would see Yoshi being over Woody) in a single project that would already be on the verge of opening if it had happened. DreamWorks isn't closing the door on anything, but it is pushing things further off into the future.

- I don't think DreamWorks is going to be "bad," or is a terrible, head-scratching decision. As others here so often point out, it's "not for me." That's fine.

- Yes, I understand they're building a new theme park during all of this. I'm glad they are.

 

[Nico]

Accepting that we don’t have definitive information about what the finished project will look like even given the insider insights, I am struggling with the value that the Dreamworks land represents to Universal Studios Orlando. It is at least a refresh of some very old and tired activities and it will spruce up the area without spending huge sums on the development. But with a focus on younger children, I don’t see how it can possibly hope to compete with the Magic Kingdom which offers kid friendly attractions like Peter Pan and The Little Mermaid in Fantasyland and the Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean in other areas of the park. Having attended both last summer with an 8 year old, I cannot imagine modifying my purchasing decision more towards Universal based on this opening and suspect that almost everyone looking at the options would agree with me. Coming to USF for Diagon Alley was a given, but the description we have so far of this land would be a 0% factor in my mind. It will be very interesting to me to see how Universal chooses to market this addition.

IF Comcast wants a “Magic Kingdom” park it would be Epic. Not any of the original two. This is the first stateside park that Comcast is building from scratch themselves. I’d want it to be my crown jewel, but not because I need to compete with MKs available demo. That said, if I’m building a brand new family park, my existing ones need to work better for families.

 

[JungleSkip]

IF Comcast wants a “Magic Kingdom” park it would be Epic. Not any of the original two. This is the first stateside park that Comcast is building from scratch themselves. I’d want it to be my crown jewel, but not because I need to compete with MKs available demo. That said, if I’m building a brand new family park, my existing ones need to work better for families.

I mean, it's very clear that Epic isn't a family park though. It's very much following in Universal's existing MO.

Mostly stuff for tweens/teens/adults, with a smattering of things for the youngsters thrown in.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Just tuning in to say, as a former KidZone TM: Woody was a 40 second ride. You'd stack every single train - it would not be worth it to add a second train on. While the brake run at the end of the ride is longer than the usual production model, it's not got the proper blocking to support two trains. Keep in mind, this is a coaster that also rarely goes down for refurb, and they have actually pulled a single car off at a time to teardown/rebuild during slower seasons (basically running 7 cars/14 riders instead of 8 cars/16 riders), so capacity isn't really a concern.

Not saying you are wrong, I agree with most of the points you made. But, Barnstormer is a literal mirror version (same model) and they run 2 trains. Capacity wasn't a concern with Woody Nutpecker as the IP... the Trolls name will be a major draw.

 

[Brian G.]

I'll try to explain my thinking (with the acknowledgment that many here don't see or prioritize things the way I do, so this is purely my perspective):

- I think about Universal's theme parks as distinct, separate experiences. It's great that the resort is still getting SNW (and an entirely new theme park). That does not inherently address what I perceive to be the weaknesses specifically at Universal Studios Florida.

- The weaknesses I perceive at USF include an attraction line-up that is far too heavily tilted in favor of screens and simulator-y experiences. SNW, had it been added to USF, would have included three significant attractions of a primarily physical variety (we can argue about whether the AR aspect of Mario Kart counts as more "screens," but a person can ride that attraction without the AR if they choose, in which case they'll mostly be experiencing a pretty traditional dark ride) by this year or next year, which would have started to rebalance the offerings.

- Of course there's no "period," and there are still plenty of areas at USF that Universal could decide to address at some indefinite point in the future. But again, SNW would have netted the park 2-3 new rides (depending on how much of an upgrade one would see Yoshi being over Woody) in a single project that would already be on the verge of opening if it had happened. DreamWorks isn't closing the door on anything, but it is pushing things further off into the future.

- I don't think DreamWorks is going to be "bad," or is a terrible, head-scratching decision. As others here so often point out, it's "not for me." That's fine.

- Yes, I understand they're building a new theme park during all of this. I'm glad they are.

"Not for me" is a fine reason - just as long that it's understood this is a personal issue and not a Universal one. I think some are conflating the two.

There are definitely issues that need to be addressed - and no one is expecting this to be a E-Ticket extravaganza - but it is a needed addition.

 

[Nico]

I mean, it's very clear that Epic isn't a family park though. It's very much following in Universal's existing MO.

Mostly stuff for tweens/teens/adults, with a smattering of things for the youngsters thrown in.

Skip I think you just defined a family. But I agree with your point, that’s why I said I don’t think they are going after MK’s demo. More after a similar fan perception of prestige or the concept that it’s the main park of the resort.

 

[JungleSkip]

Skip I think you just defined a family. But I agree with your point, that’s why I said I don’t think they are going after MK’s demo. More after a similar fan perception of prestige or the concept that it’s the main park or the resort.

Sorry, "family" is the wrong word when we talk about this stuff. We've all, including me, be gaslit by being Disney fans only to start that "Family friendly" means everyone from a toddler to grandma can ride most of the stuff at a park.

You're right in what I meant was "Universal is continuing to aim for Universal's target demographics with EU, not shifting to target MK's demographics"

 

[Casper Gutman]

"Not for me" is a fine reason - just as long that it's understood this is a personal issue and not a Universal one. I think some are conflating the two.

There are definitely issues that need to be addressed - and no one is expecting this to be a E-Ticket extravaganza - but it is a needed addition.

The “not for you” rhetoric that comes up here frequently is occasionally valid but is often used in a condescending and even derogatory manner to dismiss opposing arguments without engaging them. We are all thinking adults capable of evaluating things critically, even if our personal preferences inevitably color those evaluations. I am not a thrill coaster fan, but I feel Velocicoaster is a spectacular addition to the park. I do not enjoy the films of Stanley Kubrick, but I acknowledge that he is one of the absolute geniuses of film. We make these distinctions all the time, and it is constructive to discuss the basis on which we make such judgements and to account for any biases that might effect them.

To be, perhaps, a bit more controversial, I think we can be too quick to lump all childhood enjoyment into one category, to dismiss the fact that children can have discerning taste even if they can’t fully articulate it. Speaking only from my childhood memories, I enjoyed both McDonalds play lands and the EPCOT dark rides, but the quality and degree of that enjoyment was wholly different, as were its long term ramifications.

Finally, I think there are two major issues here: the first is whether parks like Universal should feature large sections aimed only at children or whether they should strive to create “family” attractions that can be enjoyed by multiple age groups. Unlike Skip, I don’t think the latter opinion is the result of gaslighting but is rather a perfectly valid, if debatable, position. The second issue is not whether DreamWorks Lands ends are valid, but rather how well it achieves those ends. That’s an important question and one we can’t answer until the land opens.

 

[paintervision]

Not saying you are wrong, I agree with most of the points you made. But, Barnstormer is a literal mirror version (same model) and they run 2 trains. Capacity wasn't a concern with Woody Nutpecker as the IP... the Trolls name will be a major draw.

Barnstormer has an extra block and the last turn into the station is wider. (Also has a lift chain rather than drive motors - more reliable in rain). Also has extra room for a track switch and storage barn, that I don't see any indication of them adding in the next ten months. From Bio's photos, it looks like they haven't even touched the ride, so I expect not change much - paint, station/queue work, and new themeing are a given.

As I said in my post, they can refurb 70% of the train without shutting the ride down by running with one row less, so there aren't even many benefits of having a spare train on hand. It would also make the ride a lot more complex, and require a new control system... not to mention, without a midcourse brake run on the ride, there's no way to "hit interval" and keep all trains moving without coming to a dead stop at the end.

 

[Brian G.]

The “not for you” rhetoric that comes up here frequently is occasionally valid but is often used in a condescending and even derogatory manner to dismiss opposing arguments without engaging them. We are all thinking adults capable of evaluating things critically, even if our personal preferences inevitably color those evaluations. I am not a thrill coaster fan, but I feel Velocicoaster is a spectacular addition to the park. I do not enjoy the films of Stanley Kubrick, but I acknowledge that he is one of the absolute geniuses of film. We make these distinctions all the time, and it is constructive to discuss the basis on which we make such judgements and to account for any biases that might effect them.

To be, perhaps, a bit more controversial, I think we can be too quick to lump all childhood enjoyment into one category, to dismiss the fact that children can have discerning taste even if they can’t fully articulate it. Speaking only from my childhood memories, I enjoyed both McDonalds play lands and the EPCOT dark rides, but the quality and degree of that enjoyment was wholly different, as were its long term ramifications.

Finally, I think there are two major issues here: the first is whether parks like Universal should feature large sections aimed only at children or whether they should strive to create “family” attractions that can be enjoyed by multiple age groups. Unlike Skip, I don’t think the latter opinion is the result of gaslighting but is rather a perfectly valid, if debatable, position. The second issue is not whether DreamWorks Lands ends are valid, but rather how well it achieves those ends. That’s an important question and one we can’t answer until the land opens.

I think you're taking this a bit too seriously... lol

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Barnstormer has an extra block and the last turn into the station is wider. (Also has a lift chain rather than drive motors - more reliable in rain). Also has extra room for a track switch and storage barn, that I don't see any indication of them adding in the next ten months. From Bio's photos, it looks like they haven't even touched the ride, so I expect not change much - paint, station/queue work, and new themeing are a given.

As I said in my post, they can refurb 70% of the train without shutting the ride down by running with one row less, so there aren't even many benefits of having a spare train on hand. It would also make the ride a lot more complex, and require a new control system... not to mention, without a midcourse brake run on the ride, there's no way to "hit interval" and keep all trains moving without coming to a dead stop at the end.

Yeah I wasn't expecting it, but they could if they actually tried lol

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think you're taking this a bit too seriously... lol

I’m trying to be as civil and reasoned as possible to avoid the conversation descending into unproductive pot shots.

 

[Magic-Man]

I'll try to explain my thinking (with the acknowledgment that many here don't see or prioritize things the way I do, so this is purely my perspective):

- I think about Universal's theme parks as distinct, separate experiences. It's great that the resort is still getting SNW (and an entirely new theme park). That does not inherently address what I perceive to be the weaknesses specifically at Universal Studios Florida.

- The weaknesses I perceive at USF include an attraction line-up that is far too heavily tilted in favor of screens and simulator-y experiences. SNW, had it been added to USF, would have included three significant attractions of a primarily physical variety (we can argue about whether the AR aspect of Mario Kart counts as more "screens," but a person can ride that attraction without the AR if they choose, in which case they'll mostly be experiencing a pretty traditional dark ride) by this year or next year, which would have started to rebalance the offerings.

- Of course there's no "period," and there are still plenty of areas at USF that Universal could decide to address at some indefinite point in the future. But again, SNW would have netted the park 2-3 new rides (depending on how much of an upgrade one would see Yoshi being over Woody) in a single project that would already be on the verge of opening if it had happened. DreamWorks isn't closing the door on anything, but it is pushing things further off into the future.

- I don't think DreamWorks is going to be "bad," or is a terrible, head-scratching decision. As others here so often point out, it's "not for me." That's fine.

- Yes, I understand they're building a new theme park during all of this. I'm glad they are.

I agree with most of this. I'm really excited for Epic, but I would have preferred Super Nintendo World to go into Kidzone. I would have also preferred Ministry of Magic where Fear Factor used to be. Yes, even at the expense of Epic Universe being built. SNW would have solved a lot of problems within the park, including an overeliance on screens and simulators, the lack of family attractions, and it would take a lot of pressure off of Diagon Alley. Ministry of Magic would have given the park another standout dark ride and would take the pressure off of Gringotts. People would complain less about Fallon and Supercharged because they'd be viewed as filler attractions. USF would feel a lot more evenly matched with IOA as a result.

I know that's not a popular take here. I wonder what the future of the Epic Universe plot would look like now. Maybe a DreamWorks park like they're building in Texas?

 

[Universal 4 Life]

I'm going to miss KidZone for selfish reasons. It's sort of a reprieve from the crowds. My family an I enjoy going to ET then just linger around KZ to relax and recharge. Obviously I am glad the park is evolving and upgrading bit I'm going to miss my personal chill zone.

 

[Brian G.]

I agree with most of this. I'm really excited for Epic, but I would have preferred Super Nintendo World to go into Kidzone. I would have also preferred Ministry of Magic where Fear Factor used to be. Yes, even at the expense of Epic Universe being built. SNW would have solved a lot of problems within the park, including an overeliance on screens and simulators, the lack of family attractions, and it would take a lot of pressure off of Diagon Alley. Ministry of Magic would have given the park another standout dark ride and would take the pressure off of Gringotts. People would complain less about Fallon and Supercharged because they'd be viewed as filler attractions. USF would feel a lot more evenly matched with IOA as a result.

I know that's not a popular take here. I wonder what the future of the Epic Universe plot would look like now. Maybe a DreamWorks park like they're building in Texas?

We already have people questioning whether or not what EU currently has is "enough".... taking away SNW and Potter would definitely amplify that POV (and I would be inclined to agree with it at that point).

 

[DodgsonHere]

Some truly wild takes in here if we’re preferring Nintendo squashed into KidZone where it would have next to no expansion space over Epic Universe being built.

 

[jarmor]

I don't get it. Springfield is basically a redone food hall with a simple flat and it is hailed in high regard but this area looks to be a more thematically fleshed out, coherent kids area make over with a refreshed interactive water play area and whatever they are doing in the ball pit and some feel it is not enough? I honestly think a flat wouldn't have made much of an impact if it were included in this refresh as they are really doing a lot already from how it is looking. Kids like to play and kids like water and this refreshed land is enhancing both of those elements. What more could you ask for? (I am being rhetorical don't answer lol)

 

[JungleSkip]

Some truly wild takes in here if we’re preferring Nintendo squashed into KidZone where it would have next to no expansion space over Epic Universe being built.

Eh. They can put Nintendo expansions anywhere. I think they made the right decision overall, but I get why people would prefer SNW in USF, and I don’t think expansion space is a worry for a partnership they can put anywhere

 

[Magic-Man]

Some truly wild takes in here if we’re preferring Nintendo squashed into KidZone where it would have next to no expansion space over Epic Universe being built.

ET and Simpsons are directly next to Kidzone, plus there was a small amount of expansion space in the DK area according to the leaked plans. It would have been fine.

 

[JungleSkip]

I don't get it. Springfield is basically a redone food hall with a simple flat and it is hailed in high regard but this area looks to be a more thematically fleshed out, coherent kids area make over with a refreshed interactive water play area and whatever they are doing in the ball pit and some feel it is not enough? I honestly think a flat wouldn't have made much of an impact if it were included in this refresh as they are really doing a lot already from how it is looking. Kids like to play and kids like water and this refreshed land is enhancing both of those elements. What more could you ask for? (I am being rhetorical don't answer lol)

Overall I obviously agree with the crux of what you’re saying, but I do think a flat ride or two should have been added. The parks in Orlando seem basically allergic to them outside of a token one or two in each park. They’re reliable diversions for people, and always nice to have.

As for why Springfield is often thought of as good while this is getting whinged over, it all comes down to the demographics each land serves