Splash Mountain Re-Theme

[PerceptiveCoot]

Question, has anyone here seen Song of the South?

My aunt gave it to be on DVD when I was eight. I watched it once, then occasionally rewatched the animated segments.

Ignoring the racism...it's just kind of a meh movie. James Baskett basically carries the live-action movie on his back.

EDIT: I assume it was a pirated version or some vhs rip.

EDIT 2: Gotta say the only live-action portions I remember are the absurdly melodramatic plot of the boy's father leaving for the city, and the introduction scene around the campfire. Oh, and the boy's mom telling James Baskett in like every other scene that she's polluting her boy's mind with his silly and frivolous stories god damn it, my kid needs to learn about reality.

 

[belloq87]

Question, has anyone here seen Song of the South?

I've seen it.

Even setting aside the (extraordinarily questionable, at best) handling of race, it's just not all that compelling a film. It's kind of episodic in a way that lacks energy, and it has the hallmarks of mid-late 1940s Disney, which was one of the more uninspired creative periods for the studio. With the strike and WWII sidetracking things in the early-mid '40s, Disney didn't really get back into a groove until the end of the decade, and SONG OF THE SOUTH -- purely evaluated as cinema -- feels much more like an elongated demo reel for techniques they'd perfect later on in the '50s and '60s.

I do think James Baskett, despite playing what could be deemed a "problematic" depiction, is extremely appealing and charming in the film, and his performance is probably the most worthwhile human element in the piece.

 

[TheGentTrent]

Question, has anyone here seen Song of the South?

I've only seen the animated stuff on YouTube about a decade ago. Which really, unless you've seen the cartoons, Splash Mountain is hard to follow story-wise.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

I do think James Baskett, despite playing what could be deemed a "problematic" depiction, is extremely appealing and charming in the film, and his performance is probably the most worthwhile human element in the piece.

Definitely this. The ironic and tragic thing about many of these POC roles of the 30s to 50s was that, even though they were undeniably racist and abhorrent depictions, black actors even being on screen was considered ("progress") over blackface. Unfortunately, when on screen, POC were forced to either conform to stereotypes or not exist within film at all.

EDIT: (Would recommend book by Donald Bogle about black actors in Classic Hollywood, which has been around for almost fifty years and is now in its fifth edition)

 

[GA-MBIT]

The Bride Auction is proof that this kind of idea isn't impossible. I just personally feel like this is very unneccesary, and would hate to lose one of the best rides in the park before others that have aged much worse.

 

[Legacy]

Why are people acting like a change of scenery is a loss of “the” ride?

While, yes, the story and scenes in Splash are a lot of fun, what makes Splash the ride it is are the drops. A number of the scenes are fairly passé, or haven’t worked in years. A re-theme doesn’t take away the drops or change the ride layout; it updates the scenes. That’s all.

 

[Andysol]

While, yes, the story and scenes in Splash are a lot of fun, what makes Splash the ride it is are the drops.

You couldn’t be more wrong.

Dudley has better drops all around. Everything else; from the music, to the details to the theme is what makes the ride.

Zip-a-dee-doo-da, laughing place, How do you do; all make the ride.

Splash is hailed as one of the greatest attractions ever because of... the drops? :bonk:

Give PatF it’s own ride and area that is worthy of an expansion. Don’t give it what will almost assuredly be a half-assed retheme.

People need to take their wokeness elsewhere.

 

[PerceptiveCoot]

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but maybe just put some context signs up? People always talk about the great job Warner Bros. does in contextualizing old Looney Tunes cartoons, so why not do something similar here?

 

[Jamesh22]

I'm sure this has already been suggested, but maybe just put some context signs up? People always talk about the great job Warner Bros. does in contextualizing old Looney Tunes cartoons, so why not do something similar here?

Interesting point but I think that might make things worse. Currently there are sooooo many people who have no idea what this is based on, if you start giving them context there will be protests that it needs to come down/change.


Just on another note, since we were previously talking about PATF, the WDS in Paris is supposedly getting a Princess and the Frog restaurant on the new lake, shame it's not a ride but at least that's a (very) small step in the right direction.

 

[shiekra38]

Why are people acting like a change of scenery is a loss of “the” ride?

While, yes, the story and scenes in Splash are a lot of fun, what makes Splash the ride it is are the drops. A number of the scenes are fairly passé, or haven’t worked in years. A re-theme doesn’t take away the drops or change the ride layout; it updates the scenes. That’s all.

This was my argument. Behind the theming is still a fun ride.

Also, the rides at MK take on a certain "monolith to Walt" kind of identity and it excuses rides not being regularly replaced.

Changing a big headliner like Splash in MK would open a door IMO.

 

[Spookies n' Stuff]

Why are people acting like a change of scenery is a loss of “the” ride?

While, yes, the story and scenes in Splash are a lot of fun, what makes Splash the ride it is are the drops. A number of the scenes are fairly passé, or haven’t worked in years. A re-theme doesn’t take away the drops or change the ride layout; it updates the scenes. That’s all.

I mean california screamin and the incredicoaster are the same ride functionally, but most people i've asked preferred the original, because of the music. Even if a ride is the same ride functionally, a retheme can completely change how a ride feels and in a lot of cases its quality. On the universal side of things Transformers and Spider Man are the same vehicles and basically the same track layout, but it's rare to see someone argue that they're the same experience. I'm not really opposed to the idea though, as I only started riding splash mountain in the last 5 years or so, so I dont have the same childhood nostalgia towards it that a lot of other people do, but I do agree that a retheme can essentially change a ride to a completely different ride, even if the technology and layout is the exact same.

 

[HandsomePete]

Why are people acting like a change of scenery is a loss of “the” ride?

Because they haven't been on Mission Breakout.

I'm still skeptical that they'll spend the $150-250M it would take to actually retheme it.

 

[Jerroddragon]

My wild idea for Disney is to embrace the characters.

Find Some some creators/artists and make a new film or series for Disney plus with Brer Rabbit and friends and re invent where he is coming from. Their are a ton of story's with the characters and feel this would be the best way to also get the ride an update as well, with better tech but keep the theme.

Disney could get rid of it but think the smarter thing to do is wash away the movie, and just create something new with the characters and put the song's in there so then your set.

I also own the film from an Ebay DVD and its fine, I only care for the animated parts.

 

[KlownzNskullZ]

I mean even the ice cream song you hear in ur streets is based on a very racist song.

 

[Legacy]

I mean california screamin and the incredicoaster are the same ride functionally, but most people i've asked preferred the original, because of the music. Even if a ride is the same ride functionally, a retheme can completely change how a ride feels and in a lot of cases its quality. On the universal side of things Transformers and Spider Man are the same vehicles and basically the same track layout, but it's rare to see someone argue that they're the same experience. I'm not really opposed to the idea though, as I only started riding splash mountain in the last 5 years or so, so I dont have the same childhood nostalgia towards it that a lot of other people do, but I do agree that a retheme can essentially change a ride to a completely different ride, even if the technology and layout is the exact same.

But do they prefer the “ride” or do the prefer the “music.”

Look at Mission: Breakout and Tower of Terror.When it was announced, there was a lot of “they’re going to ruin the ride.” But the “ride” didn’t change. The story did. Now, the argument against changing Orlando’s ToT is that it doesn’t need it because it has the better ride system. Suddenly, when the theme proves replaceable, the ride system becomes the focus.

Themes are all a matter of preference, which is fine. But that’s all they are. Themeless flumes are popular because it’s a fun ride system. The Splash ride layout, and the Dudley ride layout (since it was brought up), would be great rides without any theming. To look at theming as the only essence of a ride disregards the actual ride part.

The ride itself isn’t changing in a retheme.

 

[Spookies n' Stuff]

But do they prefer the “ride” or do the prefer the “music.”

Look at Mission: Breakout and Tower of Terror.When it was announced, there was a lot of “they’re going to ruin the ride.” But the “ride” didn’t change. The story did. Now, the argument against changing Orlando’s ToT is that it doesn’t need it because it has the better ride system. Suddenly, when the theme proves replaceable, the ride system becomes the focus.

Themes are all a matter of preference, which is fine. But that’s all they are. Themeless flumes are popular because it’s a fun ride system. The Splash ride layout, and the Dudley ride layout (since it was brought up), would be great rides without any theming. To look at theming as the only essence of a ride disregards the actual ride part.

The ride itself isn’t changing in a retheme.

I would argue that the theme is important to a ride's identity, even if the layout and ride system is the same, most people consider it a new ride. The example of Mission Breakout and Tower of Terror in particular is very apt, because even though a majority of the structures and the ride system are identical to one another, I don't think anyone could argue that they are the same ride experience. Part of the reason ride rethemes are so contentious is because of the fact that theming and aesthetic affects the ride experience as a whole, I can't get the same kind of feeling from Mission Breakout that I got from Tower of Terror, I enjoy them both but I enjoy them in different ways, despite the fact that the ride system is exactly the same. Another good example is Indiana Jones vs Dinosaur, same vehicles, same basic layout, very different levels of quality. A ride system is an integral base to build your ride out of, but theming is an equally important tool to elevate an experience, you wouldn't hear as many people talking about a clone of Forbidden Journey that doesn't have any of the theming and just swings guests around empty rooms. Not every ride necessarily needs to be a hyper immersive 2 billion dollar expereince, but its quite telling that out of all of the rides in the world, the ones where dense theming meets an incredibly fun ride system tend to be the most talked about.

 

[Allison]

At the end of the day, it’s a log flume ride in a theme park. It makes no impact on the general daily overall quality of life. I understand the love and the memories attached (i.e. I’ll be crushed if/when something happens to E.T.) but it’s a form of entertainment and theme parks are still supposed to be an escape. So if changing the song or the overall theme of a ride helps entertain more people when they’re here, or help people feel more welcome, included, seen, heard, feel that sense of escape-then who am I to say it shouldn’t be done? My opinion isn’t the one that matters.

 

[shiekra38]

It's all about dat drop

Everything else is just rising action

 

[Jerroddragon]

At the end of the day, it’s a log flume ride in a theme park. It makes no impact on the general daily overall quality of life. I understand the love and the memories attached (i.e. I’ll be crushed if/when something happens to E.T.) but it’s a form of entertainment and theme parks are still supposed to be an escape. So if changing the song or the overall theme of a ride helps entertain more people when they’re here, or help people feel more welcome, included, seen, heard, feel that sense of escape-then who am I to say it shouldn’t be done? My opinion isn’t the one that matters.

A ride that gets 2 hours on most busy days. A ride that has been barley upgraded yet still brings people in. i think your underselling the charm of the ride.

If people didn't care for it they would not ride it but people like the music, they like the theme and characters. I'd also assume the ride has the highest rate of people buying pictures after the ride.

 

[Andysol]

The example of Mission Breakout and Tower of Terror in particular is very apt

It’s also the exception to the rule.

I can name 10 rethemes they’ve completely botched or did half assed.
Using the exception as an example is disregarding what is much more likely to happen and what has been shown to us time and time again.

or help people feel more welcome, included, seen, heard, feel that sense of escape-then who am I to say it shouldn’t be done? My opinion isn’t the one that matters.

1) Your opinion always matters, regardless of the topic. You may not have an experience, but you have a brain, as well as the ability to analyze what others are saying and form an opinion on any subject matter. But that’s beside the point.

Who draws the line of how many people it takes to offend before we make a decision. 10 people? 20? And if white people dont get a voice in this scenario, then how many does it take? Because white Twitter is who is definitely making the most noise about it with only a minute amount of black people.
Its a non-issue for 99.99% of the black people coming into the parks.
Only disney nerds have any concept of what splash mountain is themed from. The message gets lost and more and more people turn away from progress when you start attacks on non-issues.
The majority of Americans can get behind the removal of a Pike statue. Not Splash mountain. That will turn off the majority of the country, completely illegitimatize the movement and then progress is stopped in its tracks.