Splash Mountain Re-Theme

[Disneyhead]

You are WAY over simplifying Song of the South’s highly racist tones, so much so that Disney won’t even release it.

There’d also be heavy symbolism in retheming a ride based heavily racist movie with Disney’s first black princess. I really don’t think Dr. Facilier would be a big problem at all culturally and he’s one of the most beloved modern Disney villains (post 2000).

I wasn't trying to downplay the overtly racist overtones throughout SotS. Just encapsulate them because my point was about the equally as troublesome old school racist trope of Savages/Cannibals/Witch Doctors.

Like Disney, Efteling Park in The Netherlands is coming under fire for a horribly racist version of the Tea cups (those aren't tea cups), the trope falls into the same category at Dr. Facilier.



What made me think about it is, not too long ago the James Bond movies were getting a lot of flack for their misogynistic treatment of women and the outrage spilled over into their portrayal of non-white races. The Voodoo Witch Doctor in Live and Let Die was often mentioned. Considering the first thing that came to mind while watching PatF and Dr. Facilier hit the screen was the Witch Doctor from Live and Let Die, I can easily see how Dr. Facilier could also come under SJW fire.

 

[yankees13]

Splash Mountain is my favorite ride so I won’t go on a long tangent about why I wouldn’t want this to happen. I’m just gonna echo what one of the previous posts said about Dumbo, Peter Pan etc. You can even go back to some of the early Mickey Mouse cartoons and see some VERY questionable stuff in them. It was just different times 70-80 years ago.

However, Disney did a great job of separating the characters from the movie and making its own story. For any first time park goers, these characters were just created for the ride for all they know. You don’t see these characters without the Splash Mountain branding.

 

[HORRORable Commenter]

The world has gone mad.

It’s fine if someone thinks a PatF retheme of Splash would be cool- whether it happened 10 years ago or tomorrow. Although PatF is my favorite animated movie, I wouldn’t want to lose what I think is the best ride Disney has ever created for a chance at a retheme that may or may not be great;.

But the events of the last weeks shouldn’t change anyone’s mind whatsoever on the subject matter. If it did, you have a problem.

I don’t think its necessarily fair to judge those who’s views may have been altered this month, because many people who haven’t focused on racial issues are now taking the initiative to learn more about racism and how they can help prevent it.

Splash Mountain’s characters have been featured in quite a bit of Disney media, but their inception is still Song of the South. While many don’t remember the film and see the B’rer characters as original to Splash Mountain, their roots are still in a controversial film Disney won’t even Home release.The ride, at least in DL, definitely needs refurbishment, and while I love Splash Mountain, I definitely wouldn’t be against a well done retheme. Princess and the Frog would be the perfect choice in California, but I don’t think the film had nearly enough reach to become an E ticket attraction.

 

[shiekra38]

Dumbo is a bit of a different story. In the grand scheme of the movie, it's a small aspect compared to how Song of the South is just overtly racist through and through. The fact that it makes for a fun ride while ignoring those elements actually goes to prove how harmful movies like SotS were and exactly WHY they were made. It's actually sort of cute when you look at from a certain POV (thus Splash Mountain). But in the context of the movie, they try to use the "cute" part to mask the racist elements and make it seem normal/okay.

Yes, I agree. Song of the South is much worse in terms of overall content.

Honestly, they could really theme Splash to a lot of recent Pixar and Disney animated films

and it still would be the same fun flume ride it is today

In my opinion, nothing would really be too different if they changed it, other than the ride getting a much needed upgrade

 

[JungleSkip]

I think it's easy for some of us to say "There's nothing racist about Splash Mountain". I've been reading POC voices in the community that have issues with it, which lead me to believe that it probably should be changed at some point. I don't think it's super pressing (especially when rides like Jungle Cruise and Peter Pan have far more outwardly racists scenes in them), but I wouldn't shed a tear if it was rethemed to something else down the line.

 

[Brian G.]

I'll just leave this here.

 

[Jamesh22]

Surely they could just change the song?
No retheme needed just replace for something equally catchy which doesn't offend or trigger?

Or just change the lyrics but keep the tune?

 

[GAcoaster]

I'd guess that WDI has been hatching plans for a retheme of Splash for years now. It was always a matter of time...

 

[Freak]

Some people have already mentioned some points I'm about to make here, but I will chime in anyway.

I think going down this road to change/remove rides based on mob reaction is a really, REALLY dark path to go down. If Splash Mountain gets changed, then what else is next? Dumbo? Peter Pan? (Points of which have been previously brought up). I PROMISE you, once you "fix" something in the parks, the mob will look for something else to be angry about. It will never stop.

Now to be fair, if you want SM to get changed, I'm not saying you're part of this "reaction mob". If you want SM to be overlayed into PatF just because you think it would make a better ride overall, then fair enough. I will say though that Splash Mountain has been open at DL for, what? 31 years now? The ride and the song that accompanies it has been beloved by guests for all those years and, as far as I know, has not been massively decried for being a "problematic" ride up until now. If you want this to happen simply out of reaction to recent events or what the mob is saying, I question your priorities in life; especially if you've gone on this ride, enjoyed it all of these years, and haven't thought about this until now. C'mon.

I'm sure the majority of people on the ride are just going on it and enjoying themselves. They're in it to have a good time and not nit-pick for any flaws they can possibly find. To do this based on people acting on reactions is, I think, a long-term bad decision. If Disney goes down this road, we won't be getting brand-new rides for a long time because Disney will be spending all of this time and money trying to "fix" rides that are "problematic"!

That being said, I would not be opposed to a Princess and the Frog ride. Just not at the expense of Splash Mountain. Ideally it would be great as a better "Frozen Ever After". But if they insist on overlaying Splash Mountain, I would be very much opposed to it as I was to ToT/Guardians (Which pleasantly surprised me!), but it would have to be really, REALLY good to sell me on it.

 

[SkiBum]

Not trying to be a contrarian here but "Princess and The Frog" mocks people who live in the bayou (three gentlemen trying to catch frogs) and mocked the stereotypical southern belle. "Song of the South" should never see the light of day again, no question. I just don't know how many people make the connection between Splash Mountain and that movie. The tale is more about Brer Rabbit leaving the briar patch, being warned not to, running afoul of Brer Bear and Brer Fox, and escaping back into the briar patch. The only thing I can see is that someone will ride the ride and then want to see the movie that was the original IP.

Additional Note: I am not trying to belittle the impact of racism with this post. My point is more that mocking or stereotyping groups in a movie is no less insulting to the ones being mocked. It's just a different form of discrimination.

 

[Tristan]

I’ll put my hat in the ring and say this. Racism is bad and we can all agree on that, in light of recent events with the murder of George Floyd I totally see why this is coming under fire. Change always happens and if it were changed to PaTF it wouldn’t be the end of the world and if it makes every one at a disney park comfortable and accepted then that’s what really matters in the long run.

 

[belloq87]

Not trying to be a contrarian here but "Princess and The Frog" mocks people who live in the bayou (three gentlemen trying to catch frogs) and mocked the stereotypical southern belle.

Both animated films and theme parks have a long history of using caricatures and stereotypes (of all regions and ethnic backgrounds) as a form of humorous shorthand. Sometimes this manifests in more offensive or tone-deaf ways than others, but generally (I'm sure there are exceptions) this isn't done out of some malicious intent, but rather as a way to quickly communicate information about the characters to the audience by leaning on well-worn reference points and tropes (inaccurate or not).

With that being the case, as others have said, once you set out to go looking for this sort of stuff to be gotten rid of in theme parks, it's a process that won't really end (as an intellectual exercise, anyway, because the practicality of needing to change a VAST amount of attractions that could be deemed to have problematic elements -- under whatever new cultural standards some are attempting to apply -- is actually what will protect most of them; there could be so much to change that no theme park would spend that amount of time and effort!).

 

[tielo]

Does this not derive from the actual problem that is consistent in the US? Is the theme of this mountain the source why some Disney guests hit and spit on Disney cast members, why they are rude to other guests, why they think they are above another human being?

Anyway, I like the ride and never have seen the movie. But if it's wrong it's wrong so I thought, as it is opposite the hall of President it would be safe for Disney to re-theme the ride as Trump mountain. Really, all presidents are decent people, an example of humanity and for sure not racist. It will be the greatest and best mountain in the world. No?

 

[Andysol]

I don’t think its necessarily fair to judge those who’s views may have been altered this month, because many people who haven’t focused on racial issues are now taking the initiative to learn more about racism and how they can help prevent it.

I have much to say on the subject but it is incredibly off topic and overly political.

I’ll summarize my thoughts cleanly with an analogy:
If you just graduated college, don’t think you have the knowledge to revamp the entirety of the US economy. Take a back seat and get some experience first.

A perfect way to gain that experience is volunteering at the Boys and Girls club or big brothers/sisters. A perfect way not to is thinking twitter comments and memes count as experience. That’s what I’d encourage folks to do.

 

[Mad Dog]

I have much to say on the subject but it is incredibly off topic and overly political.

I’ll summarize my thoughts cleanly with an analogy:
If you just graduated college, don’t think you have the knowledge to revamp the entirety of the US economy. Take a back seat and get some experience first.

A perfect way to gain that experience is volunteering at the Boys and Girls club or big brothers/sisters. A perfect way not to is thinking twitter comments and memes count as experience. That’s what I’d encourage folks to do.

:thumbsup: soooo correct, bottom line.Get active with social agencies, get on the streets and help the unfortunate people and their 'real day to day problems', and be a part of the solution. Deeds, not words, matter most.Not Twitter petitions........Twitter is not representative of the general American public, especially in regards to anything remotely political. Twitter is primarily Far Far Right or Far Far Left, the fringes of society.

 

[darkridelover]

My two cents. Tiana redo sounds great. Also take out the Slave Owners from the Hall of Presidents. We shouldn't glorify slave owners as heroes anymore or hold then up as some sort of role model. They're not. They were wrong.

 

[Brian G.]

My two cents. Tiana redo sounds great. Also take out the Slave Owners from the Hall of Presidents. We shouldn't glorify slave owners as heroes anymore or hold then up as some sort of role model. They're not. They were wrong.

Hall of Presidents is going to be all or nothing. As a lover of history, I'd be sad but I understand how many feel it has no place in the Magic Kingdom. The nation is just too divided.

 

[Andysol]

My two cents. Tiana redo sounds great. Also take out the Slave Owners from the Hall of Presidents. We shouldn't glorify slave owners as heroes anymore or hold then up as some sort of role model. They're not. They were wrong.

Just speaking from my personal experience: My several years of being a big brother did a ton for my worldview. But it also did a lot for my 2 little brothers. They learned that white people can pour into their lives, and I learned even more.

Raising a black daughter has also made me seek out mixed or black families to associate with and lean on for guidance. At least in my (relatively large) circle, splash mountain is not a black person issue. And Thomas Jefferson being in Hall of presidents certainly isn’t. These are issues made up by white people trying to fix non issues for black people but they feel it is problematic for black people. Then, when the problem is “fixed”, they feel like they accomplished something when nothing was. It’s called the “white mans burden” and it needs to stop.
Changing Splash to PatF doesn’t make black boys graduate high school at a higher clip nor does it make black girls less sexualized at an earlier age than their lighter skinned peers in any way whatsoever. Pouring into their lives can help both of those. There are systematic and cyclical issues that are of serious nature that need addressed yesterday; but HoP/SM ain’t one of them.

 

[belloq87]

By the standards of their time, the moral failings of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were (unfortunately) not terribly exceptional. Their achievements, however, were exceptional. It should be possible for intelligent human beings to both acknowledge and dissect the flaws of some of our Founding Fathers, while also celebrating what they accomplished and the noble ideals that they represented (even as they, personally, failed to live up to all of them). That nuance should be possible.

Now, is the Magic Kingdom the best place to explore that nuance? Probably not. I'd be sad to see The Hall of Presidents go away, as it's an opening day original and still a park exclusive, but my disappointment would be tempered by the existence of The American Adventure at Epcot, which is a better attraction in a number of ways.

 

[ChristopherSE]

It’s a good thing if recent conversations are encouraging white people to be more conscientious consumers, and hold industries to a higher standard of racial literacy.

It’s a bad thing if white people see all that’s going on and their first thought is “Splash Mountain has to go”.

I still think there’s merit to the discussion, and it’s important for members of all communities/industries to look inward, but anybody that has “Splash Mountain re-theme“ high on their list of priorities is clearly not learning from the larger conversation.