Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

[Jerroddragon]

Yeah
This looks amazing

 

[Legacy]

Finally. A focus.

 

[Tobias]

Finally. A focus.

My thoughts exactly, Phase 5 is looking like a promising start as it's presenting Kang as the Big Bad going forward. And he's not sitting idly on a throne, either.

 

[Nick]

Finally. A focus.

Eh, for how long though. GotG seems fairly standalone as that's wrapping up a trilogy that several actors have stated will be their last appearance and i'm more excited for Secret Invasion than I am for The Marvels (although do we know who the villain is in that movie?). I actually don't mind the standalone path Phase 4 took, just saying for those hoping for a focus all the way around in Phase 5... I wouldn't hold my breath.

Phase 5 definitely seems to have lots of potential bangers up it's sleeve between Ant-Man 3, GotG 3, Thunderbolts, Blade, New World Order, etc. I think what will come into focus more than anything is who our Avengers team is and isn't. Right now, I have Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Thor, Ant-Man, Captain America, Hulk, Shang-Chi, Hawkeye (pending Renner recovering from his injury okay) as locks.

I would throw Strange and Wanda on there, but Cumberbatch has said Strange is not an Avenger and Wanda is no longer an Avenger. I think we'll see Kate Bishop and Ms. Marvel sort of under the wing of Clint and Carol like Peter Parker was under Tony's wing. I also think there's a good shot we see White Vision, Loki, Fantastic Four, and even Deadpool and Wolverine in supporting roles, although I wonder if they are planning on having different Avenger teams for Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars. Secret Wars will obviously have more cameos and i'm fully expecting that movie to be bananas. Latest rumor was Sophie Turner returning as Jean Grey.

 

[Legacy]

I don’t need a continuous focus throughout all the films. Every phase has had films that didn’t directly relate to everything else (though would reference the broader universe).

I just needed a point to all of it. I want something to justify watching all of these products that isn’t purely referencing previous films (or worse… referencing almost nothing… Eternals).

Since Loki… I’ve been waiting for Kang to get unleashed. Suddenly, the ties between Loki and Quantumanium feel essential to everything that follows. This story, with this villain, a smoldering angry Kang who looks to have already lost a war to The One Who Remains, allows us to know these movies matter. This is the “I’ll do it myself,” moment from the first Avengers.

 

[Nick]

I just needed a point to all of it. I want something to justify watching all of these products that isn’t purely referencing previous films (or worse… referencing almost nothing… Eternals).

Upon rewatches, Eternals has really grown on me and not everything has to reference something as long as you are building something, which I feel that film did. We've gotten so spoiled that we expect there to be a constant connecting narrative all the time while at the same time many fans of the MCU thought Avatar 2 was gonna bomb.

My point there being, I think Feige realized how deep into the MCU they were and how high the barrier of entry would be the deeper they got with them not just having movies but TV shows that he decided to use Phase 4 as a reset to allow new fans a chance to come in without feeling like they have to watch 30 movies. Avatar 2 succeeded despite going 13 years between films in part because you could go in cold without having seen the first movie and you were fine. It also transcends language barriers in many ways , but not having to watch x amount of movies +this series and that series on Disney+ in order to know what's going on certainly helps.

It's no wonder the only billion dollar film of Phase 4 was NWH. You could watch that movie not having seen either of the Tom Holland movies or any other MCU movie and just strictly been a casual movie goer that saw the Tobey Maguire version of Spider-Man 20 years prior (or being someone who liked Garfield's Spider-Man) and you weren't missing anything. That was a movie that anyone could jump into and enjoy if they had seen even one spider-man movie in their life or even if they hadn't. It was sort of a movie about brotherhood and the loss that the three of them have had to endure because of being who they are. It was also just a flat out fun movie.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Upon rewatches, Eternals has really grown on me and not everything has to reference something as long as you are building something, which I feel that film did. We've gotten so spoiled that we expect there to be a constant connecting narrative all the time while at the same time many fans of the MCU thought Avatar 2 was gonna bomb.

My point there being, I think Feige realized how deep into the MCU they were and how high the barrier of entry would be the deeper they got with them not just having movies but TV shows that he decided to use Phase 4 as a reset to allow new fans a chance to come in without feeling like they have to watch 30 movies. Avatar 2 succeeded despite going 13 years between films in part because you could go in cold without having seen the first movie and you were fine. It also transcends language barriers in many ways , but not having to watch x amount of movies +this series and that series on Disney+ in order to know what's going on certainly helps.

It's no wonder the only billion dollar film of Phase 4 was NWH. You could watch that movie not having seen either of the Tom Holland movies or any other MCU movie and just strictly been a casual movie goer that saw the Tobey Maguire version of Spider-Man 20 years prior (or being someone who liked Garfield's Spider-Man) and you weren't missing anything. That was a movie that anyone could jump into and enjoy if they had seen even one spider-man movie in their life or even if they hadn't. It was sort of a movie about brotherhood and the loss that the three of them have had to endure because of being who they are. It was also just a flat out fun movie.

I like Eternals....as a TV show. It just makes more sense that way with how they story is told but its kinda weird we might not see any mention of a giant head in the ocean until......Captain America.

I know we get surprises of old characters and plots returning sometimes and i do love that but.....like this a huge event that I dont think anyone one will talk about in the MCU at all this year and to me that feels like poor world building.

But I think people like this trailer because its more serious, looks more interesting then past antman films (love the first one but it follows the generic hero origin story, so get why not everyone does), will easily have the best villain of any of the antman films and Scott looks like a hero vs.....what we have been getting in the MCU which feels like more like they are just doing things just because vs being heroic.

Like Wanda, Kate Bishop, Thor, Miss Marvel, and even moonknight all feel like the characters have a selfish motive for doing the right thing in the end, while Captain America always felt like he was standing for the right side whenever he choose to act

 

[Nick]

I like Eternals....as a TV show. It just makes more sense that way with how they story is told but its kinda weird we might not see any mention of a giant head in the ocean until......Captain America.

I know we get surprises of old characters and plots returning sometimes and i do love that but.....like this a huge event that I dont think anyone one will talk about in the MCU at all this year and to me that feels like poor world building.

But I think people like this trailer because its more serious, looks more interesting then past antman films (love the first one but it follows the generic hero origin story, so get why not everyone does), will easily have the best villain of any of the antman films and Scott looks like a hero vs.....what we have been getting in the MCU which feels like more like they are just doing things just because vs being heroic.

Like Wanda, Kate Bishop, Thor, Miss Marvel, and even moonknight all feel like the characters have a selfish motive for doing the right thing in the end, while Captain America always felt like he was standing for the right side whenever he choose to act

Is it the fault of Eternals as a movie that there’s been no mention of that or is that more on Feige? That’s the one and only thing I’ve been bothered with them not talking about/connecting.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Is it the fault of Eternals as a movie that there’s been no mention of that or is that more on Feige? That’s the one and only thing I’ve been bothered with them not talking about/connecting.

Yeah thats more on the MCU. and Kevin.
But somehow the Antman team planned ahead of complaints and got to be the one movie to really move the MCU story along.

Eternals has some cool ideas but it also has a generic monster villain who has zero personalty, I was really hoping once the monster became a thinking creature it could have a better goal then just do what its deevolved form was already doing. Some of the acting is very stiff and yeah yeah its their character is a BS excuse these things have been alive for thousand of years and some of them do have fun personalities and others are just there, along with the pacing of the film which is why I think it would have worked as a mini series 3-4 hours event vs.....a movie that at times drags. When i watch it in chunks I enjoy that movie much more.

 

[Nick]

Quantumania has secured a Chinese release date along with a late release there for Wakanda Forever.

Perhaps China got a taste of that Avatar 2 money and is realizing how stupid it is that they’ve been banning Marvel releases.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Sadly it’s because Jen Gil doesn’t have any lgbtq+ scenes

that’s literally why movies are blocked in China and it’s disgusting to me

 

[Nick]

Sadly it’s because Jen Gil doesn’t have any lgbtq+ scenes

that’s literally why movies are blocked in China and it’s disgusting to me

It's why some movies are blocked in China. Top Gun: Maverick got blocked there because Tom Cruise had an American Flag on his jacket.

While you are correct that China bans homosexuality in movies, Marvel has sort of had a ban on them for all of Phase Four due to bad relations with the US in general. Look at the Phase Four movies. The only ones that would have been blocked due to what you are talking about are Eternals and Multiverse of Madness. Shang-Chi was mad in part to cater to the Chinese market and even that movie didn't get a Chinese release date yet Free Guy which released a month before it did get a release in China.

There was no good reason why none of Phase Four except for BP:WF will have seen a theater in China. There's no good reason why a lot of films during 2021-2022 didn't see Chinese releases. It was all arbitrary decisions looking for reasons to keep movies out. Hollywood then realized (including Marvel Studios) that it's time to stop making editing decisions to get a Chinese release if China is just going to deny the film a release anyway.

I suspect not every MCU movie will get a China release going forward as some movies are just going to include out and proud gay characters such as America Chavez or Phastos from Eternals. Movies that China is willing to show will just be extra money in the pot.

 

[Nick]

Marvel actually had someone write a Scott Lang autobiography (as seen in She-Hulk and in the upcoming Ant-Man 3). It's coming out in September. I'll 100% buy it if Paul Rudd does the audiobook.

 

[quinnmac000]

Early screening reviews being so mixed really isn't good for this film.

 

[Nick]

Early screening reviews being so mixed really isn't good for this film.

There’s no hype for it at all.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I’m sure I’ll enjoy it

but man, marvel needs to do better. We need another civil war or winter Solider caliber film

 

[belloq87]

Sounds like Jonathan Majors delivers, at the very least. Even most of the tepid reactions to the movie so far single him out as a strength.

 

[Nick]

So seems like we've found the reason there's no hype for the film... it's not all that good. With 134 reviews and counting, Ant-Man 3 is currently competing with Eternals for the worst critically reviewed MCU movie with it currently sitting at a 53% on Rotten Tomatoes.

That said, critics are praising Kang, so that's good. However, this is a very rough way to kick off Phase 5 and given my friend forgot to buy tickets the other day, it makes me question if it's even worth going to rush out and see this weekend. I do love Paul Rudd as Scott Lang and Jonathan Majors should kill it as Kang so i'll probably still go. The Ant-Man films have never been the best of the bunch in the MCU, but they were charming diversion films. Peyton Reed has never been the MCU's best director and I think scaling him up from heist films to event film may have been a mistake.

Critic Consensus - Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania mostly lacks the spark of fun that elevated earlier adventures, but Jonathan Majors' Kang is a thrilling villain poised to alter the course of the MCU

 

[Jerroddragon]

I rewatched Antman 1 last week,,,,,its a fun film

I don;t understand how that will just be the best Antman film while most other hero's second or third outing is their best stories....closest thing is I do pefer Ironman 1 to the other two films but that was because Ironman 2/3 had behind the scenes issues and the MCU was still growing

 

[Nick]

So i'm hearing a lot of people say that this is better than Thor: Love and Thunder, which didn't get a rotten score. Granted, I HATED L&T, so falling below it for me would be a feat I hope never happens. On the other hand, I do feel like Thor 4 and Ant-Man 3 share one thing in common that may rub some reviewers the wrong way which is the typical MCU world is ending formula, a heavily CGI filled movie (where the CGI is probably mediocre at best), and one other thing i've heard which seems comparable, which is a script that's all over the place and doesn't know when to stop going for the joke instead of taking a moment serious.

Perhaps Thor 4 was the straw that broke the camel's back for a lot of reviewers with the MCU and now they're looking at the MCU with more scrutiny going in. An MCU movie used to be synonymous with quality and success. Since phase four started, neither are 100% guaranteed anymore.

Quantumania was supposed to be Ant-Man's Civil War where it was as close to an Avengers movie as you could get outside of the Avengers franchise. This movie has a much bigger budget than the other Ant-Man movies and thus was expected to open big. While I was never expecting an Ant-Man movie to open at say $150M (which would be better than The Batman and almost as good as Thor 4), I figured somewhere around $120M would be good for a film like this. Unless something changes - and these reviews aren't going to help - it may not even crack $100M for the 3-day opening weekend. Considering how front-loaded MCU movies tend to be these days, you've got to think that's not exactly what Disney was hoping for out of a movie that's delivering the film debut of Kang The Conquerer.