Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania

[Nick]

Yeah, that's the problem with the Multiverse. The stakes are gone.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Yeah, that's the problem with the Multiverse. The stakes are gone.

I disagree they are handling it poorly If Antman, Moon Knight, Sam Wilson etc die I will be sad. Just because they can be replaced doesn't mean it makes it less sad from characters we care about

They just have too many cooks in the kitchen, and have NO idea where things are heading. Like look at BP2 the person who took over the title might not come back to the MCU....lol
They need to bring back long contracts so they can make sure they know who can be in films 5+ years from now and which characters are at their end.

 

[Nick]

I disagree they are handling it poorly If Antman, Moon Knight, Sam Wilson etc die I will be sad. Just because they can be replaced doesn't mean it makes it less sad from characters we care about

They just have too many cooks in the kitchen, and have NO idea where things are heading. Like look at BP2 the person who took over the title might not come back to the MCU....lol
They need to bring back long contracts so they can make sure they know who can be in films 5+ years from now and which characters are at their end.

Were you sad when Loki died though too? Because he's still here and will almost undoubtedly be in the next Avengers movie.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Were you sad when Loki died though too? Because he's still here and will almost undoubtedly be in the next Avengers movie.

I was more sad for Thor...because Loki was kinda under developed for me

If Scoot Lang dies...doesn't matter if he can come back. Cassie and Hope will still be sad and that's why they need to focus better on characters so we care more when someone does die...but when a show has 20+ characters its hard to fall in love with them all.

I was sad when Spiderman was snapped even though he would come back...but Ironman didn't know that and god did that "death" hit him hard

 

[Lucky Planet]

Agreed, the movie stakes felt low.

My fear is nothing big will happen until the next Avengers film, rumors are Kang is going to show up in more then one upcoming shows and if no one dies until the movie...then it feels like filler/making him not a threat.

Thanos showed up and killed Loki and handel and beat Hulk.....so yeah we need more of that before the next big film

Not only that but we knew what he wanted. 1 clear goal.
Right now it's all over the place

 

[Nick]

I talked about this with a friend (mostly how all over the place it was) and I think our main thing was Marvel seems to not only have thought more people knew who Kang was than those who do, but it's also odd when contrasting to Thanos. With Thanos we had a slow yet ominous buildup. With Kang, it feels like he's just thrust upon us and they're smacking us in the face saying "Kang bad".

Jonathan Majors is doing great, I just think the multiverse doesn't work as well in reality as it sounds on paper. There's definitely some situations like No Way Home where it's used well, but I feel like when you have a continuous multiverse stories, it can become tiresome and drag on a bit if the writing is not top notch.

 

[CoryLevy91]

I actually love the idea of Kang and that there's this council and multitude of him that is the big bad villain of this set of films. Doubly so for the idea that he can just show up at any time and wreck our universe as opposed to Thanos' slow, singular character driven quest to balance existence as he sees fit.

The problem is that for such a combustible situation Kang represents there's no rush to defend against him. The ending of Ant-Man was so perfectly poised to do exactly that: jettison the universe into movement. Instead it's just a weak 'ehh, guess we're okay but there's still sorta danger but who cares?'.

In some sense I feel like the problem is that they've inundated themselves with so many projects they can't justify really dropping the big bad into the stories or else it'll just become so weird that the Avengers don't form and address it. There's what? 12+ projects between movies and films between now and Kang Dynasty. When the MCU first started it was 4-5-7 films between the Avengers films. I get they probably should cash in on the popularity as much as possible but sometimes less is more and I think Kang is suffering because of it.

 

[Jerroddragon]

I actually love the idea of Kang and that there's this council and multitude of him that is the big bad villain of this set of films. Doubly so for the idea that he can just show up at any time and wreck our universe as opposed to Thanos' slow, singular character driven quest to balance existence as he sees fit.

The problem is that for such a combustible situation Kang represents there's no rush to defend against him. The ending of Ant-Man was so perfectly poised to do exactly that: jettison the universe into movement. Instead it's just a weak 'ehh, guess we're okay but there's still sorta danger but who cares?'.

In some sense I feel like the problem is that they've inundated themselves with so many projects they can't justify really dropping the big bad into the stories or else it'll just become so weird that the Avengers don't form and address it. There's what? 12+ projects between movies and films between now and Kang Dynasty. When the MCU first started it was 4-5-7 films between the Avengers films. I get they probably should cash in on the popularity as much as possible but sometimes less is more and I think Kang is suffering because of it.

I wonder if Antman gave the Avengers a heads up.....like he had to right? If they go into the Avengers films and most senior members dont know who Kang is then this movie is pretty much pointless

 

[CoryLevy91]

I wonder if Antman gave the Avengers a heads up.....like he had to right? If they go into the Avengers films and most senior members dont know who Kang is then this movie is pretty much pointless

Honestly, the only real sense it makes to me is that if this theory about the ending of Quantumania turns out to be true:

Spoiler: Quantumania Ending Theory

The Pym-Langs return not to their own universe they left when they all entered the Quantum realm but a new, alternate universe that has already encountered or is even being controlled by Kang. You have the heightened reactions of the passer-bys, the now saturation of purples and greens, the weird, scared monologue from Scott, etc.

Something is definitely off about the ending and you're meant to feel it.

I really wonder if what we're heading to is a scenario wherein most of the MCU heroes have been jettisoned to alternate universes that are being controlled by Kang and they must ultimately escape/return to "our" universe/defeat Kang once and for all. We know Loki was last seen (prior to the Loki S2 teaser after Ant-Man) in a universe which is likely ruled over by Kang (his statues outright adorning the TVA). If this IS true, the Pym-Langs likely find themselves in a similar situation. Is it possible that in some of the upcoming films we'll see more characters ending up in alternate universes under the rule of Kang? Feels like it would take some work given the slate of the next few films once you get past GotG3 and The Marvels.

 

[Freak]

I didn't bother to watch this. I just watched the post credits scenes on YouTube and read the spoilers. Glad I spent my movie money on Cocaine Bear instead.

Spoiler: Spoils

They should've let this be a perfect send off for Ant Man's character. I don't know why they didn't go for the original ending where Scott Lang gets stuck down there and Kang survives. It would've given more stakes to the plot and made Kang to be a more feared villain. But after he dies twice, with the second time being surrounded by a bunch of ants, I'm supposed to believe this Kang is going to be the next big villain for the MCU? Boy has the MCU fallen hard.

Although it sounded like there were a lot of conveniences to get the story going, they could've had the perfect template for a good finalle for Ant Man if they just stuck with the original ending and gave some more thought as to why and how they got down there. Also, it sounded like they screwed up Cassie.

Yeah the MCU is in trouble. The only MCU movie I'm looking forward to is Guardians and I'm a little curious about Secret Wars. I have no interest whatsoever in the Marvels. The MCU is in trouble.

 

[Mad Dog]

MCU looking 'exhausted'. It'll still pull in some big bucks, with a few real good profit results here and there, but it's best days are behind it. It's had a longer successful run than anyone
could have predicted when Disney purchased it. But, after a while, it's normal for franchises to fall back to earth from their lofty highs.

 

[ghostsarejerks]

I didn't bother to watch this. I just watched the post credits scenes on YouTube and read the spoilers. Glad I spent my movie money on Cocaine Bear instead.

Spoiler: Spoils

They should've let this be a perfect send off for Ant Man's character. I don't know why they didn't go for the original ending where Scott Lang gets stuck down there and Kang survives. It would've given more stakes to the plot and made Kang to be a more feared villain. But after he dies twice, with the second time being surrounded by a bunch of ants, I'm supposed to believe this Kang is going to be the next big villain for the MCU? Boy has the MCU fallen hard.

Although it sounded like there were a lot of conveniences to get the story going, they could've had the perfect template for a good finalle for Ant Man if they just stuck with the original ending and gave some more thought as to why and how they got down there. Also, it sounded like they screwed up Cassie.

Yeah the MCU is in trouble. The only MCU movie I'm looking forward to is Guardians and I'm a little curious about Secret Wars. I have no interest whatsoever in the Marvels. The MCU is in trouble.

I like the actors in the Marvels too much to not watch it, but yeah besides Guardians I'm not really excited for any future projects.

 

[Nick]

I like the actors in the Marvels too much to not watch it, but yeah besides Guardians I'm not really excited for any future projects.

Was a big fan of Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel was definitely more likable in Endgame imo, and I have no issues with Monica Rambeau/Photon, just haven't seen enough of her.

My biggest issue right now with getting excited for The Marvels is I have absolutely no idea what it's about. Maybe Secret Invasion will help hype me up a bit.

 

[Jerroddragon]

Was a big fan of Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel was definitely more likable in Endgame imo, and I have no issues with Monica Rambeau/Photon, just haven't seen enough of her.

My biggest issue right now with getting excited for The Marvels is I have absolutely no idea what it's about. Maybe Secret Invasion will help hype me up a bit.

Watch it just be them fighting another version of Kang...lol

 

[Nick]

For context, Ant-Man made $519M and Ant-Man and the Wasp made $620M. It has passed the domestic total of the original Ant-Man, and while it will still probably beat the Ant-Man 2 domestic box office (just barely), it's clear worldwide people don't care about this franchise.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I'll be honest and say, I think the problem with Ant-Man is that it's being directed by Peyton Reed. He needs to be hands off going forward with anything MCU oriented.

 

[CoryLevy91]

I fully understand the numbers and how they stack up comparatively to other current franchises but it's hilarious to me that a movie that'll make just under 500M worldwide is considered the end of a franchise.

That'll be more than the entire Friday the 13th franchise in one film's worth of revenue. Apples to oranges, obviously, but still makes me giggle.

 

[Mad Dog]

Interestingly, during Marvel comics history, Ant Man, and his many reincarnations (Giant Man , Goliath etc,) were never popular enough to keep a series going. Stan Lee kept trying
to get Pym on a winning track by changing his powers/character/personality, but it never worked out. Seems like that same scenario is playing out in the films with a reimagined character.
Bottom line, that character just might not be strong enough as a lead, destined to be a supporting character, even in the movies.

 

[Nick]

I'll be honest and say, I think the problem with Ant-Man is that it's being directed by Peyton Reed. He needs to be hands off going forward with anything MCU oriented.

Honestly I’m pretty sure Ant-Man movies are dead anyway. He’ll just be a character f that pops up in other movies like Hulk from here on out.

 

[CoryLevy91]

Which is sort of a shame because that character plays so well in more real, grounded stories that have a heist theme to them. The first two Ant-Man movies, while somewhat forgettable, are fun, well natured romps that play out well because of how real they feel and how fun his abilities are.

I didn't even dislike Quantumania but it just didn't "feel" like an Ant-Man film. He's not the one who should be going on CGI, green screened to death mega-adventures.