Disney Springs Discussion

[bob albert]

digital signage is not news

 

[s8film40]

I leave for a week (I'll be here weekends only for the next couple weeks) and you guys are arguing over this? Nobody's forcing you to go there for Walt's sake!

If we take the "you don't have to go there" argument seriously then the forums might as well just be shut down. That pretty much applies to everything that is discussed on here.

Obviously usually something is better than nothing at all. However in this case the alternative here isn't nothing we already had DTD. Disney Springs to me is a serious downgrade from DTD. DTD had truly unique experiences and added to the overall vacation experience. This is a mall. I think if you could travel back in time and ask people if they thought replacing DTD with a mall was a good idea they would pretty much think you were crazy.

 

[Nick]

If we take the "you don't have to go there" argument seriously then the forums might as well just be shut down. That pretty much applies to everything that is discussed on here.

Obviously usually something is better than nothing at all. However in this case the alternative here isn't nothing we already had DTD. Disney Springs to me is a serious downgrade from DTD. DTD had truly unique experiences and added to the overall vacation experience. This is a mall. I think if you could travel back in time and ask people if they thought replacing DTD with a mall was a good idea they would pretty much think you were crazy.

But nothing has been replaced (sans Pleasure Island). Almost everything that was in the Marketplace and West Side in 2013 before DS was announced is still there. All that's been replaced is abandoned clubs and a parking lot.

 

[s8film40]

But nothing has been replaced (sans Pleasure Island). Almost everything that was in the Marketplace and West Side in 2013 before DS was announced is still there. All that's been replaced is abandoned clubs and a parking lot.

To me the clubs and Disney Quest (which although plans changed is probably still going to close) are a very big part of what made DTD something more unique. They're basically replacing the clubs with just some generic stores, how does that add value to WDW?

 

[WAJAS]

The Town Center area does remind to basically be a typical outdoor mall but that doesn't change the fact that the rest of DS is not.

The clubs will always be missed and they were a significant loss for DTD, but they were oddly placed and had other issues. Blame Disney's lack of future proofing and not the current fix to the problem.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

I assumed that the Town Center was supposed to be a "Florida within Florida" kind of thing. Similar to DCA being a Cali within Cali, until they refurbished that. Other than P.I. getting replaced and a new area replacing the parking lot, DS is still the same.

 

[Nick]

To me the clubs and Disney Quest (which although plans changed is probably still going to close) are a very big part of what made DTD something more unique. They're basically replacing the clubs with just some generic stores, how does that add value to WDW?

I'll never excuse the clubs closing, that was a terrible decision that Disney made. But once it was done, you have to move past it. They sure let those buildings sit there long enough...

 

[s8film40]

I'll never excuse the clubs closing, that was a terrible decision that Disney made. But once it was done, you have to move past it. They sure let those buildings sit there long enough...

Just because they let it sit and rot doesn't make it better. Closing PI and waiting many years is no different than closing it and immediately replacing it with stores. We all know the potential of what could be done and they very clearly set the target way lower than it had been in the past. It's all about potential, there's a lot they could have done but they chose to build a mall. That doesn't make the mall bad, but it makes it a very poor addition to WDW.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

They probably saw that they were going to make more of a profit with a mall than keeping the clubs open or anything similar to it. Pleasure Island was a thing to keep guests in resort to party instead of going on Church St., of course, this was during a time when they cared about locals. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Nick]

Just because they let it sit and rot doesn't make it better. Closing PI and waiting many years is no different than closing it and immediately replacing it with stores. We all know the potential of what could be done and they very clearly set the target way lower than it had been in the past. It's all about potential, there's a lot they could have done but they chose to build a mall. That doesn't make the mall bad, but it makes it a very poor addition to WDW.

I guess maybe one of the differences for me was I have very few memories of PI and being a local, I emjoy going to DS every now and then and I assume from every area to open so far and the pics i've seen i'll enjoy hanging out in this area too. Will I often buy something? Probably not. Could it have been more? Sure. But I also don't like to live my life in what could've been. I like enjoying the moment.

 

[s8film40]

I guess maybe one of the differences for me was I have very few memories of PI and being a local, I emjoy going to DS every now and then and I assume from every area to open so far and the pics i've seen i'll enjoy hanging out in this area too. Will I often buy something? Probably not. Could it have been more? Sure. But I also don't like to live my life in what could've been. I like enjoying the moment.

I'm personally not really a huge night club person, but what Disney did with PI was a level of quality that was far superior to what was being done elsewhere. They made it a themed experience. They eventually made a series of poor business decision which eventually drove that business into the ground and weren't left with great options. They announced when they closed the clubs they had a bold new vision. We all waited to see what was going to happen, finally they announced the transformation to Hyperion Wharf without really telling us what it was and what was going to be in it. A few years later they announced Disney Springs which looked even more like a generic mall. I think if you look at this history it's clear they made some huge mistakes and were grasping at straws to try to do something to cover it up and that's how we ended up with a mall. I agree it's not a big deal ultimately it won't impact me that much. I will go to some of the new stores and really it's nice to have more options nearby. I guess the point I'm making is my level of interest and excitement for visiting DTD was much higher than this. I'll go there sure, but for me it's a net loss.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

Well, this event will go down in Disney history as a "what if" story. Maybe those world renowned imagineers got lazy and had no interest in pursuing Hyperion Wharf. Who knows.

 

[s8film40]

Well, this event will go down in Disney history as a "what if" story. Maybe those world renowned imagineers got lazy and had no interest in pursuing Hyperion Wharf. Who knows.

I think it's more a story of Disney trying to get into a business where they didn't really know what they were doing. DTD had always been an attraction because of it's association with WDW and later because of PI and some of the other offerings. Converting to a strictly shopping mall was really kind of different for them. I think their biggest issue was learning how to attract tenants. To me this was the real reason Hyperion Wharf never took off. It looked good on the surface, but every business owner wants to know whats going to draw traffic and what other businesses are going to be there to help attract business and Disney really had nothing but some pretty pictures to show.

 

[MillenniumDragons]

I think it's more a story of Disney trying to get into a business where they didn't really know what they were doing. DTD had always been an attraction because of it's association with WDW and later because of PI and some of the other offerings. Converting to a strictly shopping mall was really kind of different for them. I think their biggest issue was learning how to attract tenants. To me this was the real reason Hyperion Wharf never took off. It looked good on the surface, but every business owner wants to know whats going to draw traffic and what other businesses are going to be there to help attract business and Disney really had nothing but some pretty pictures to show.

Why couldn't they just hire someone or some group that had experience to help with that part of it? Like Mall of America people.

 

[Disneyhead]

Not to mention - with the new area opening May 15 they're once again doubling the number of stores that sell almost nothing but flipflops.

How many flipflops does the world need?

Well, the problem is, here in FL, Flip-Flops are almost impossible to find. It's not like 7-11 is selling them or anything.

 

[s8film40]

Why couldn't they just hire someone or some group that had experience to help with that part of it? Like Mall of America people.

I suppose that could be what they finally did. It seems like malls are very tricky things to operate. It's a delicate balance of finding the right group of tenants that all work well and build business off of each other. Knowing what I know of Disney they are typically very egotistical and think they can do anything better than anyone else so I wouldn't be surprised if that accounted for how long this whole thing has taken.

 

[IzzyB]

Yeah as a local this is all a positive for me. If I were visiting for vacation I think I may be more likely to skip it as it is more like a "generic mall" like I may have at home. If I had planned going to a mall into my trip then I might go here instead of one of the other area malls.

This is no different than many experiences at Disney. If you don't like water parks you just don't go, if you don't like golfing you just don't go, if you don't like miniature golf... well you get the point. Disney property has many things that some people like and others don't. I really don't understand the hate for this. The unique area is still the same and has all the same shops. So that added another part that you don't have to go to if you don't want to. But this brought so many good things with traffic and parking.

 

[Miketheboss]

People love to talk garbage. I used one of those directory boards on Thursday. I'm not dumb, the place is just huge. This is way more than a mall. There was live entertainment in nearly every corner.

 

[UNIrd]

Eh, were any of you actually hitting up Pleasure Island in it's final years? Because... a lot of people weren't. I hit it up a few times when I was younger and the place was not hopping. So I get the nostalgia... it's the stuff Disney is built on. But while I did like Motion because they played music videos, Mannequin because of the novelty of the spinning dance floor, and the BET club because of the hip-hop music, Pleasure Island was on it's way out without it having to be completely reimagined anyway.

This new Town Center will be much more lucrative for Disney. It's just shopping and dining instead of nightclubs this time around. If you want to go to a club under the veil of safety of a theme park resort, there's still CityWalk. And even those venues need some real love soon.

 

[OLSinFLA]

Eh, were any of you actually hitting up Pleasure Island in it's final years? Because... a lot of people weren't. I hit it up a few times when I was younger and the place was not hopping. So I get the nostalgia... it's the stuff Disney is built on. But while I did like Motion because they played music videos, Mannequin because of the novelty of the spinning dance floor, and the BET club because of the hip-hop music, Pleasure Island was on it's way out without it having to be completely reimagined anyway.

This new Town Center will be much more lucrative for Disney. It's just shopping and dining instead of nightclubs this time around. If you want to go to a club under the veil of safety of a theme park resort, there's still CityWalk. And even those venues needs some real love soon.

They were still profitable. Disney closed them in the hopes of leasing them out (thereby making the money without the overhead). They misjudged the timing, the recession hit, and so they sat empty for years...