Disney Springs Discussion

[s8film40]

This is no different than many experiences at Disney. If you don't like water parks you just don't go, if you don't like golfing you just don't go, if you don't like miniature golf... well you get the point. Disney property has many things that some people like and others don't. I really don't understand the hate for this. The unique area is still the same and has all the same shops. So that added another part that you don't have to go to if you don't want to. But this brought so many good things with traffic and parking.

Again if we're going to fall back on the "if you don't like it, don't go" argument then there's really no point in discussing anything on here. The point is they've finally gotten around to all the big changes they planned for this place and it's extremely underwhelming, it's just a mall. It used to be something better. That doesn't mean I won't go to it, but it's just not something to get excited about anymore.

Eh, were any of you actually hitting up Pleasure Island in it's final years? Because... a lot of people weren't. I hit it up a few times when I was younger and the place was not hopping. So I get the nostalgia... it's the stuff Disney is built on. But while I did like Motion because they played music videos, Mannequin because of the novelty of the spinning dance floor, and the BET club because of the hip-hop music, Pleasure Island was on it's way out without it having to be completely reimagined anyway.

This new Town Center will be much more lucrative for Disney. It's just shopping and dining instead of nightclubs this time around. If you want to go to a club under the veil of safety of a theme park resort, there's still CityWalk. And even those venues need some real love soon.

PI used to be insanely crowded. Really I think where Disney finally let the business crumble was when they decided to remove the turnstiles. They wanted to bring in 3rd party restaurants and the only way to do that was to open it up, however once they did this they had to remove everything that essentially then became free entertainment, the fireworks, the outside shows, etc. The atmosphere of the island used to be one of the big reasons people went. PI's demise was no fault other than Disney's, the night club business didn't just go away, Disney started making changes that made their night clubs less desirable.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Drink sales at Mannequins and Comedy Warehouse essentially covered the operating costs of the entire island.

 

[Nick]

Drink sales at Mannequins and Comedy Warehouse essentially covered the operating costs of the entire island.

It wasn't for lack of business that the clubs closed. It was the bad press and drunkards emptying out each night that Disney decided they didn't want to deal with.

House of Blues had club nights all the way until September of last year (which I actually miss far more than PI since it was a huge part of my DCP experience), but some girl got raped and left in the bushes in July (?) and Disney put an end to the club nights.

I get why they don't want the bad press, but I don't like that we've had to sacrifice so much for the Mouse to be squeaky clean, either.

 

[Nick]

In other news though, this place actually opened today. Lots of photo updates on bioreconstructs twitter. https://twitter.com/bioreconstruct

Town Center opened officially at 10

 

[s8film40]

It wasn't for lack of business that the clubs closed. It was the bad press and drunkards emptying out each night that Disney decided they didn't want to deal with.

House of Blues had club nights all the way until September of last year (which I actually miss far more than PI since it was a huge part of my DCP experience), but some girl got raped and left in the bushes in July (?) and Disney put an end to the club nights.

I get why they don't want the bad press, but I don't like that we've had to sacrifice so much for the Mouse to be squeaky clean, either.

It wasn't closed because they didn't want to deal with drunk people. If that were the case they would have closed the other bars as well. In fact Disney had much better control of the situation because of the island being completely closed off and self contained. Now if someone gets drunk and does something stupid they've got a whole shopping mall to try to get lost in. It closed because the revenue was declining and they didn't want to put forth the effort to fix the problem, instead they wanted to just lease out the space to 3rd parties.

 

[Nick]

It wasn't closed because they didn't want to deal with drunk people. If that were the case they would have closed the other bars as well. In fact Disney had much better control of the situation because of the island being completely closed off and self contained. Now if someone gets drunk and does something stupid they've got a whole shopping mall to try to get lost in. It closed because the revenue was declining and they didn't want to put forth the effort to fix the problem, instead they wanted to just lease out the space to 3rd parties.

It's not about drunk people. People get drunk at Epcot all the time. Like I said going back to HOB, they don't like bad press. Incidents where there's a public rape and then the girl is abandoned in the bushes? Not good for business. Once they took out the turnstiles at PI, the place became a bit of a HS hangout as well and lots of drug deals. Again, not stuff Disney wants tied to their name.

 

[s8film40]

It's not about drunk people. People get drunk at Epcot all the time. Like I said going back to HOB, they don't like bad press. Incidents where there's a public rape and then the girl is abandoned in the bushes? Not good for business. Once they took out the turnstiles at PI, the place became a bit of a HS hangout as well and lots of drug deals. Again, not stuff Disney wants tied to their name.

Yeah like I said PI wasn't the problem. If anything closing PI and removing the turnstiles made this issue worse not better. The incident you bring up about HOB only shows how things were worse when they closed PI. I remember this excuse coming up when they first closed PI. It never obviously came from Disney, and I think it was just the fans trying to justify what Disney had done. It's very clear the revenue was decreasing and they were already moving 3rd party businesses in. The rumors I heard at the time was they had a deal with Cheesecake Factory to move into Mannequins and planned to lease out the surrounding space around it, this or some other similar scenario is the real reason it closed. You don't close something because of problems, announce you have a bold new vision, allow those said problems to still exist in other venues and then just sit on the whole thing for multiple years. Malls inherently have security issues that need to be monitored very closely and Disney Springs is no different, especially since it's a mall with plenty of bars still in it. If anything the likelihood of bad press is probably far greater now than it was before.

 

[Nick]

Yeah like I said PI wasn't the problem. If anything closing PI and removing the turnstiles made this issue worse not better. The incident you bring up about HOB only shows how things were worse when they closed PI. I remember this excuse coming up when they first closed PI. It never obviously came from Disney, and I think it was just the fans trying to justify what Disney had done. It's very clear the revenue was decreasing and they were already moving 3rd party businesses in. The rumors I heard at the time was they had a deal with Cheesecake Factory to move into Mannequins and planned to lease out the surrounding space around it, this or some other similar scenario is the real reason it closed. You don't close something because of problems, announce you have a bold new vision, allow those said problems to still exist in other venues and then just sit on the whole thing for multiple years. Malls inherently have security issues that need to be monitored very closely and Disney Springs is no different, especially since it's a mall with plenty of bars still in it. If anything the likelihood of bad press is probably far greater now than it was before.

There was a lot of issues with Mannequins once it closed. It was designed to be a dance club and only that. It's a huge warehouse, which makes finding a tenant hard. Disney had the same problem when the Virgin Record store closed. Such an oddly shaped building and very large. Luckily for Disney, Splitsville came along which perfectly fits in there and is a stable tenant (I remember for the longest time the rumor was an Apple Store going in there...).

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Well the Mall is open. We shall see how it does.

 

[Nick]

Well the Mall is open. We shall see how it does.

People on twitter were saying it was like Wal-Mart on Black Friday at opening, but that's just all the lifestylers wanting to claim "First!". Sprinkles (cupcakes) seems the most popular off the bat. We'll see how things play out over the long run, though.

 

[s8film40]

Haha, the first photo they tweeted to announce the opening is the directory.

Sprinkles (cupcakes) seems the most popular off the bat. We'll see how things play out over the long run, though

I've been to Sprinkles it's good but nothing special, I don't get the hype for it.

 

[IzzyB]

Again if we're going to fall back on the "if you don't like it, don't go" argument then there's really no point in discussing anything on here. The point is they've finally gotten around to all the big changes they planned for this place and it's extremely underwhelming, it's just a mall. It used to be something better. That doesn't mean I won't go to it, but it's just not something to get excited about anymore.

I guess because PI was never my thing and I never went, for me and anyone else that never went to PI (which outside of people on here I never hear people talk about PI or missing it) they improved this area 100x to me and everyone I talk to. The parts everyone I know went for (Disney Store, Lego Store, Toy Store, places to eat, etc.) hasn't changed. But the parts people hated (parking and traffic) they fixed. Plus they added more places to eat. So to me this is a huge win. So I guess if you went to PI and liked it this is a huge loss (even though PI has been closed for years) and if you didn't go to PI this is a huge win. Probably why this debate exists. To me I can't understand how anyone hates this since all the issues (parking and traffic) have been fixed. But I guess now I can see if you loved PI how you are disappointed they didn't bring that back.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

PI closed for many reasons, one of which was a change in direction at Disney and another is the crazy amount of CPs would under age drink there.

FWIW, I think Disney Springs looks fine and I enjoyed Boathouse a lot. It's just a new shopping district, not this life changing cultural moment.

 

[s8film40]

I guess because PI was never my thing and I never went, for me and anyone else that never went to PI (which outside of people on here I never hear people talk about PI or missing it) they improved this area 100x to me and everyone I talk to. The parts everyone I know went for (Disney Store, Lego Store, Toy Store, places to eat, etc.) hasn't changed. But the parts people hated (parking and traffic) they fixed. Plus they added more places to eat. So to me this is a huge win. So I guess if you went to PI and liked it this is a huge loss (even though PI has been closed for years) and if you didn't go to PI this is a huge win. Probably why this debate exists. To me I can't understand how anyone hates this since all the issues (parking and traffic) have been fixed. But I guess now I can see if you loved PI how you are disappointed they didn't bring that back.

I think the thing is PI and a shopping mall are in completely different leagues. Losing PI is a big loss for WDW. They had the opportunity to do whatever they wanted with the space and chose to just add shops. This is a very marginal improvement. I am just as excited about this as I was when they expanded the outlet mall, it's not a bad thing it's just not a big deal at all and in this case it's worse as there was potential for so much more. We can obviously say it's an improvement over closed and abandoned clubs, but that's not really a fair way to look at it. They closed those clubs and businesses for this, sure the plans changed over time but this is essentially what they wanted all along. Take for example DHS much of that park is closed and abandoned at this point, if they waited a few years and just opened a couple of restaurants instead would we be claiming "hey it's better than abandoned buildings"?

 

[IzzyB]

I think the thing is PI and a shopping mall are in completely different leagues. Losing PI is a big loss for WDW. They had the opportunity to do whatever they wanted with the space and chose to just add shops. This is a very marginal improvement. I am just as excited about this as I was when they expanded the outlet mall, it's not a bad thing it's just not a big deal at all and in this case it's worse as there was potential for so much more. We can obviously say it's an improvement over closed and abandoned clubs, but that's not really a fair way to look at it. They closed those clubs and businesses for this, sure the plans changed over time but this is essentially what they wanted all along. Take for example DHS much of that park is closed and abandoned at this point, if they waited a few years and just opened a couple of restaurants instead would we be claiming "hey it's better than abandoned buildings"?

But for those of us that do not go to clubs as that is not really our thing, this is an improvement. By doing what they did I guarantee I go to DS way more than DTD. More places to eat, some more places to roam and shop, and the most important thing, it is no longer a headache to get in and out of that place. Also, keep in mind the section that is "mall" like is more in the parking lot than anywhere else. I think PI mostly got replaced with places to eat, but I could be wrong.

That is the point I am making. Depending on what you personally like this will be a win, equal, or a loss. Which is why this debate is going on. Disney will also make more money on DS than they did DTD post PI closing. So it is a win for them.

I still say it is more than a mall because no mall around me as entertainment like DS or the water features and stuff that this place will have. Not to mention the giant waterway. I also don't see what bigger and better thing they could have done here. I doubt that they ever would have brought night clubs back. It is just not the crowd they were looking to attract. So what else could they do but add more shopping and dining. Which was needed as eating in DTD was normally a long wait.

 

[s8film40]

But for those of us that do not go to clubs as that is not really our thing, this is an improvement. By doing what they did I guarantee I go to DS way more than DTD. More places to eat, some more places to roam and shop, and the most important thing, it is no longer a headache to get in and out of that place. Also, keep in mind the section that is "mall" like is more in the parking lot than anywhere else. I think PI mostly got replaced with places to eat, but I could be wrong.

That is the point I am making. Depending on what you personally like this will be a win, equal, or a loss. Which is why this debate is going on. Disney will also make more money on DS than they did DTD post PI closing. So it is a win for them.

I still say it is more than a mall because no mall around me as entertainment like DS or the water features and stuff that this place will have. Not to mention the giant waterway. I also don't see what bigger and better thing they could have done here. I doubt that they ever would have brought night clubs back. It is just not the crowd they were looking to attract. So what else could they do but add more shopping and dining. Which was needed as eating in DTD was normally a long wait.

I'm not a night club person myself. What Disney offered at PI had a far greater entertainment value than just simply night clubs. The Adventurers club for example is in my opinion the best themed attraction that WDW has ever had. DTD as a whole really tried to be more than just a shopping and dining location but rather an extension of the WDW experience. Adding generic shops and restaurants really just makes it a real world mall that just happens to be owned by Disney. I think they could have added more in the way of entertainment. They could have completely redone Disney Quest, either modernized or a whole new experience, they could've added dinner shows or any other variety of entertainment offerings. Like I said I don't hate that Disney has added generic shops and restaurants it's just disappointing, it's as if they built a 5th park with cheap carnival rides, it's better than nothing at all but not what anyone should expect from Disney.

 

[Teebin]

It looks quite attractive and well themed to me! Bioreconstruct took some very detailed pics.

 

[rioriz]

I love the "antique" brick work on the arcade

 

[Scott W.]

Showing Disney Springs to my wife, the response was basically; this looks completely different, we have to go there.

 

[Nick]

PI closed for many reasons, one of which was a change in direction at Disney and another is the crazy amount of CPs would under age drink there.

FWIW, I think Disney Springs looks fine and I enjoyed Boathouse a lot. It's just a new shopping district, not this life changing cultural moment.

It's something opening at Disney so of course Disney themselves will hype it along with their pimps. Doesn't mean it's a life changing moment or really that anyone is even saying that.