Fantastic Beasts - Crimes of Grindelwald

[Brian G.]

That is always arguable.

Ignoring the viewer's opinion of the quality of the film, I've seen nothing but widespread criticism on the twist and certain established facts it chooses to ignore.

 

[zg44]

I think if they had gone straight "Fantastic Beasts", it would have been fine. The problem is they folded in Wizarding Wars and enslaving humans.

Making a series about cute magical creatures and adventure would have been a winner.

Yeah that's fair.

Either way, I think FB should be shortened and get to the point quicker rather than trying to drag this out to 5 movies.


Then JKR can consider revisiting the Wizarding World with a sequel series set deeper into the future at one of the other schools. Because that's really what Harry Potter is about when you simplify it to its roots, it's a coming of age story about a group of schoolchildren that take on big events. That's what people really want to see.

And she really should just go to the books -> movies approach. I think this 2nd movie showed some of the limitations that she has as an author in going to screenwriting. Her narrative and dialogue isn't really as fitting as it is when read on the page.

 

[HereWeGo]

I'm still upset we have yet to see Ilvermorny. It's been so built up with her giving so much backstory to it (albeit all on Pottermore). Hopefully we actually get to see the school in the next film. I know they've already cast someone as one of the Ilvermorny professors.

 

[UNIrd]

Ignoring the viewer's opinion of the quality of the film, I've seen nothing but widespread criticism on the twist and certain established facts it chooses to ignore.

But like Last Jedi, the criticisms are as if these are standalone films and not part of a much larger story being told. The twist was crap but obviously there's more to the story. Supposedly, 3 more films worth.

 

[Brian G.]

But like Last Jedi, the criticisms are as if these are standalone films and not part of a much larger story being told. The twist was crap but obviously there's more to the story. Supposedly, 3 more films worth.

Last Jedi was 50/50, though. Not saying everyone hates it, but it’s not an apt comparison.

Also, even though films are connected, each film should still be able to standalone, yet connect to the bigger story. This film does not. If you like it, you like it; but fort the most part, fans and non-fans are seemingly not on board with this film.

 

[UNIrd]

Last Jedi was 50/50, though. Not saying everyone hates it, but it’s not an apt comparison.

Also, even though films are connected, each film should still be able to standalone, yet connect to the bigger story. This film does not. If you like it, you like it; but fort the most part, fans and non-fans are seemingly not on board with this film.

I wasn't talking about everyone. I was talking about the "fans" who seem to be the most vocal about the problems with Grindelwald, the same way the fans were extremely vocal with their distaste for Last Jedi. Meanwhile, Last Jedi was sitting at 90% on Rotten Tomatoes and I think Grindelwald is in the 40s so again... the actual quality of the film is irrelevant when the "fans" are the ones with the problem.

 

[Brian G.]

I wasn't talking about everyone. I was talking about the "fans" who seem to be the most vocal about the problems with Grindelwald, the same way the fans were extremely vocal with their distaste for Last Jedi. Meanwhile, Last Jedi was sitting at 90% on Rotten Tomatoes and I think Grindelwald is in the 40s so again... the actual quality of the film is irrelevant when the "fans" are the ones with the problem.

Well of course the fans are the most vocal. They are the only ones who care to vent on platforms. Still, it’s clear the quality is not up to snuff with fans, and non-fans. The audience score is low for this type of film, and the BO is looking like a weak showing.

 

[HereWeGo]

I wonder if this will change WB's plans to make this a 5 film series? Granted, it might be too late to change that.

Honestly, I think what needs to happen is WB needs to hire a co-writer to work with JKR. Someone who has actual experience writing screenplays. That is, personally, my biggest issue I think. Rowling writes like she's writing a novel instead of a screenplay. She tries to fit in too many characters and subplots and tries to give them all the same amount of character development. In a book, that's totally acceptable and much easier to do. In a film though, she needs to pick and choose.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Potter fans have been spoiled so far. They've never had their "Star Wars Holiday Special" or prequels.

Now they do. This is their Phantom Menace.

Cursed Child?

 

[Mad Dog]

Cursed Child?

Award winning play big time. How can you do that comparison?

 

[Frogki]

Award winning play big time. How can you do that comparison?

Because it's trash - it got a lot of praise and awards because it had great production value and some really cool technical direction and effects. But the plot was pretty bad if you expected it to be anything like the Potter stories we knew and loved.

 

[Brian G.]

Because it's trash - it got a lot of praise and awards because it had great production value and some really cool technical direction and effects. But the plot was pretty bad if you expected it to be anything like the Potter stories we knew and loved.

That's the fans saying it's trash, though. I'm reading it was received mostly positive everywhere else.

However, I have not seen the play so I cannot speak from experience.

 

[belloq87]

THE CURSED CHILD is, I'm sure, a jaw-dropping and awesome production on the stage. The writing, however, is terrible, save for a few fan-service moments involving beloved (dead) characters. It's a bad riff on BACK TO THE FUTURE PART II with wizards, and I think it actively, retroactively damages certain characters from the primary HP stories. Blech.

I think if they had gone straight "Fantastic Beasts", it would have been fine. The problem is they folded in Wizarding Wars and enslaving humans.

Making a series about cute magical creatures and adventure would have been a winner.

FANTASTIC BEASTS should have been "Indiana Jones as a wizard with creatures and monsters."

Making it so explicitly into a Potter prequel has turned out to be a terrible decision, though - paradoxically - it is only the prequel-y element of Dumbledore vs. Grindelwald that seems to have any energy behind it. You can feel that's where Rowling's heart is with this story, rather than the titular beasts or Newt.

Rowling writes like she's writing a novel instead of a screenplay. She tries to fit in too many characters and subplots and tries to give them all the same amount of character development. In a book, that's totally acceptable and much easier to do. In a film though, she needs to pick and choose.

Watching CRIMES, I thought to myself several times, "This really feels like a very messy adaptation of a very long novel." Which, of course, it isn't! There is no source material to adapt.

 

[TheGentTrent]

That's the fans saying it's trash, though. I'm reading it was received mostly positive everywhere else.

However, I have not seen the play so I cannot speak from experience.

Award winning play big time. How can you do that comparison?

Have you read the Cursed Child book? That’s where most of the criticism is coming from: the story, and justifiably so. I do hope to catch it on stage one day though.

Comparing the two, I'd prefer Crimes over Cursed Child. Crimes suffered from a bad execution over its story. Cursed Child was just a bad story.

 

[Legacy]

Cursed Child is a bad fanfic.

 

[belloq87]

CRIMES has its fair share of story problems, no doubt, but CURSED CHILD's narrative and characterizations are a whole other level of bad.

 

[Lucky Planet]

The Last Jedi. At least the prequels gave me a modicum of joy.

The last Jedi was a pretty good movie in a vacuum. It just didn't fit for a bunch of fans who decided already what the movie was supposed to be.

Last Jedi was 50/50, though. Not saying everyone hates it, but it’s not an apt comparison.

Also, even though films are connected, each film should still be able to standalone, yet connect to the bigger story. This film does not. If you like it, you like it; but fort the most part, fans and non-fans are seemingly not on board with this film.

the problem with last jedi is that it ruins any set up that JJ brings up with force awakens and in an attempt to "subvert expectations" and "surprise the fans" Rian Jhonson destroys any narrative that could have been carried from the force awakens.
as well as make a movie that felt joyless and without a clear plot. the space chase made a lot of people mad because of how nonsensical and boring it felt and the casino planet drove everyone mad from how it didnt fit with the rest of the movie.

most of the people that love the last jedi defend it because of the amazing visuals and great action and acting

i have a feeling the people this potter movie are doing it for the exact same reasons while ignoring the plot holes and problems the same way fans of the last jedi ignore the giant plot holes and structure issues with that movie
ironic, is kind of poetic.

Award winning play big time. How can you do that comparison?

Because it's trash - it got a lot of praise and awards because it had great production value and some really cool technical direction and effects. But the plot was pretty bad if you expected it to be anything like the Potter stories we knew and loved.

That's the fans saying it's trash, though. I'm reading it was received mostly positive everywhere else.

However, I have not seen the play so I cannot speak from experience.

its funny, when JK Rowling tweeted that the curse child was cannnon with the rest of the books people were so mad at her
so many people upset at her for saying this, you can see it here:




the replies are nothing but negative lol
"Cursed Child being canon literally breaks half the story of the previous 7 books and disregards established elements. It's Terrible and Changes everything from Goblet of fire on. It has characters that can't possibly exist "
"the story makes n0 sense with the books. everyone is so far out of character and half the stuff that happens is impossible.Cursed Child contradict with whatever you had originally imagined for Harry's future "

 

[ReelJustice]

I love you @TheCode

 

[Mad Dog]

Interesting marketing take....Just saw some commercials on NBC this Thanksgiving morning for FB that I haven't seen previously. The FB commercial spots were all clips of Newt and the fantastic beasts. No Dumbledore. No Grindlewald.....A change in marketing for the film?

 

[zg44]

Thinking it over, the best solution for the HP brand would be for JKR to do two things:

1) Shrink FB to 3 movies and make the next movie the finale. Just bring the subplots together and wrap it up.

2) Announce a new series of books for one of the other wizarding schools that would be the "next" Harry Potter (set it way in the future); a series of 5+ books trailing a group at Ilvermorny is the obvious choice.


The question is whether she even really is that committed to this enterprise though to really continue to grow it. It seems as if Warner is the one who came up with this Fantastic Beasts idea, so it's hard to know what JKR actually thinks of this; she clearly doesn't need money and so why go through all the work of writing another series?

That's why Warner pitched her on this prequel series of movies, but it just does not work as well as her books. The biggest difference between a book adaptation and writing a screenplay/script is that somebody adapting a book will cut a lot of convoluted subplots that work better in novel form.

Look at the Harry Potter or LOTR movies, there are many subplots that are cut out along with many pages of details...; the way JKR is creating FB is that it's like watching a book...


But in terms of reducing actual writing time, the same has happened to every major fantasy author these days; look at how much time GRRM or Rothfuss are taking to wrap up their series. Not sure anybody would want to see JKR start a new series that she might not have the need or desire to see through...