Halloween Horror Nights 30 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors (2021)

[TheCodeMan95]

I'm just happy to be discussing something other than "so what Icons are actually in the Icons house?"

 

[Brian G.]

I'm just happy to be discussing something other than "so what Icons are actually in the Icons house?"

I know it's not a fun discussion, but it's a tough and necessary one. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter, however.

 

[Grabnar]

I just wanted to note that I'm glad that we have a community where we're able to talk about serious issues and the problematic portions of the haunt industry in a productive and open manner. I really appreciate the different perspectives and insights on here from everyone involved, especially @Allison and @Legacy, and the moderation and input from @Brian G. et al.

I think that there's a lot of racism and misogyny that needs to be addressed in the horror and overall genre community as a whole. Things are certainly better than they used to be back in the heyday of exploitation cinema, but as we've seen over and over again even in the last few years there is a lot that needs to be called out and people that need to be held accountable. Conversations like this, and input from people who live without the privilege that a lot of us on this forum have, are invaluable to learning about other peoples lived experiences so that we can make our hobby a more inclusive and less toxic place for everyone involved.

 

[Allison]

To add to @Grabnar in regards to the topic of racism in the horror genre I cannot recommend the documentary Horror Noire enough. It’s available to watch through Shudder and Apple TV if you’ve got an AMC+ subscription, it’s a really interesting deep dive into the genre from the black perspective and I learned a lot.

Amazon product ASIN B07NDQLVS7

 

[jseal777]

To add to @Grabnar in regards to the topic of racism in the horror genre I cannot recommend the documentary Horror Noire enough. It’s available to watch through Shudder and Apple TV if you’ve got an AMC+ subscription, it’s a really interesting deep dive into the genre from the black perspective and I learned a lot.

Amazon product ASIN B07NDQLVS7

I think Shudder even has an extended edition now that was not there when I watched the first time!

 

[RedRightDan]

To add to @Grabnar in regards to the topic of racism in the horror genre I cannot recommend the documentary Horror Noire enough. It’s available to watch through Shudder and Apple TV if you’ve got an AMC+ subscription, it’s a really interesting deep dive into the genre from the black perspective and I learned a lot.

Amazon product ASIN B07NDQLVS7

I can 1000% throw my recommendation behind this one as well. The pundits seem really free to speak their minds, and don't really hold back; especially Rachel True from The Craft.

 

[TheCodeMan95]

I know it's not a fun discussion, but it's a tough and necessary one. I appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter, however.

Oh yes I know my comment was rooted in sarcasm but it's a good discussion to have. I enjoy seeing something different in here. I worked at one of the top independent haunts in the country and BOY OH BOY could I blow out some crazy stuff that happened there.

 

[Nick]

I do also think that HHN should be taking some of the blame. We all love HHN or we wouldn't be discussing it, but they've fostered a fairly toxic community through the years (or at least they haven't tried to put a stop to anything) by stereotypically dressing the females up in "sexy" costumes each year. I get certain IPs just call for that, but their original houses and/or streets certainly don't and yet they still do the same thing and fall into those tropes. Vanity Ball aside, it's extremely rare to see a male sexualized in the way females are at HHN.

The same thing (or worse) applies to Mardi Gras, where men are a bit more sexualized, too. I get the reason why they are (and people working that event have a bit more idea of what they are walking into), but the stories i've heard from friends who've done Mardi gras are really pretty bad, too.

These performers are all getting paid Universal's minimum wage when they do these jobs, so around $13.50/hour (Only recently has it gone up that much, a few years ago it was <$10/hour). With what you have to deal with to get that money, for a lot of people it's just not worth it in the end.

 

[RevFreako]

Oh yes I know my comment was rooted in sarcasm but it's a good discussion to have. I enjoy seeing something different in here. I worked at one of the top independent haunts in the country and BOY OH BOY could I blow out some crazy stuff that happened there.

I would like to hear the stories

 

[ssirin88]

I always have gripes with the bros that act like they're tough poop in front of the scareactors. Like, dude no one is impressed. It's a theme park. I can see Spongebob from here.

 

[RevFreako]

I always have gripes with the bros that act like they're tough poop in front of the scareactors. Like, dude no one is impressed. It's a theme park. I can see Spongebob from here.

I always enjoy when they do that, and then they get rekt by the SA they didn't notice

 

[Nick]

I always have gripes with the bros that act like they're tough poop in front of the scareactors. Like, dude no one is impressed. It's a theme park. I can see Spongebob from here.

Those people are normally dealt with pretty quick. If someone is acting like that and they seem drunk and like they may be a threat to a guest or another scareactor, there's a system to get security involved. Most get away with it just because there's so many (and we also can't just flag everyone), but if you seem off the rails, we're gonna do our best to flag you down ASAP.

 

[SlasherVillain]

I could go on an entire rant about the size discrimination that goes on particularly for female performers. Women (honestly, PEOPLE in general, but the inherent misogyny in Horror and theme park entertainment casting hurts women worst of all) of all shapes, sizes, ethnicities, orientations, etc. deserve an equal opportunity to work.

But on the subject of female performers being harrassed, It absolutely doesn't help that so many female performers are used as sexual objects for the enjoyment of men. That's no fault of the performers, its the fault of the people designing the characters/costumes and the fault of the creators of the IPs the creative team brings in. Frankly, I get frustrated seeing people call zones like Rob Zombie a really good zone when the living dead girl scareactresses were really the ONLY scareactresses who weren't there to be sexy eye candy. That fault lays on Rob Zombie's content and aesthetic, but I wish there was a bit more of a critical eye and view

As far as at HHN - I gotta say that the go-go dancers in Hellbilly Deluxe probably did NOT apply to HHN thinking they would be doing that. I can only imagine how bad it could have been had they not been 10 feet in the air.

Every day, I thank GOD that most of the female performers in this zone at least had a good buffer zone of protection but damn if it doesn't upset me a little bit that those were the roles the women were given.


Both of these things are two sides of the same coin and it just leaves women losing all around. It really sucks to see, haha. I'm of the opinion that more women should be put on the creative team and be given a voice at the table, but who knows how long that'll take and how many obstacles women who are TRYING to get to that position have to face.

 

[MrBlonde]

I do also think that HHN should be taking some of the blame. We all love HHN or we wouldn't be discussing it, but they've fostered a fairly toxic community through the years (or at least they haven't tried to put a stop to anything) by stereotypically dressing the females up in "sexy" costumes each year. I get certain IPs just call for that, but their original houses and/or streets certainly don't and yet they still do the same thing and fall into those tropes. Vanity Ball aside, it's extremely rare to see a male sexualized in the way females are at HHN.

Horror, as a genre, feels like it derives down to most basic common denominator when it comes to its content, whether its reactionary disgust of gore, fight or flight responses from something unexpected, or the titillation of certain characters. Sure we have storylines and what not, but they all go back to generating those physical responses. And the simple adage is true: "sexy" sells. People like those tropes and HHN wants to cater to their audience while also trying to build a bigger one.

Sure they have security to protect employees and say stuff like that isn't tolerated, but they also accept the risk of that stuff by perpetuating such stereotypes that can provoke not great responses. That being said, regardless of how any actor is portrayed, that doesn't excuse people's terrible behavior or make them entitled to do whatever they wish a la Westworld.

I've come to accept that component as just nature of the beast, but (as I'm only realizing because I never thought about it before) if those are only the majority of roles that women can get in HHN or other haunts, that's a real shame.

 

[Allison]

I do also think that HHN should be taking some of the blame. We all love HHN or we wouldn't be discussing it, but they've fostered a fairly toxic community through the years (or at least they haven't tried to put a stop to anything) by stereotypically dressing the females up in "sexy" costumes each year. I get certain IPs just call for that, but their original houses and/or streets certainly don't and yet they still do the same thing and fall into those tropes. Vanity Ball aside, it's extremely rare to see a male sexualized in the way females are at HHN.

The same thing (or worse) applies to Mardi Gras, where men are a bit more sexualized, too. I get the reason why they are (and people working that event have a bit more idea of what they are walking into), but the stories i've heard from friends who've done Mardi gras are really pretty bad, too.

These performers are all getting paid Universal's minimum wage when they do these jobs, so around $13.50/hour (Only recently has it gone up that much, a few years ago it was <$10/hour). With what you have to deal with to get that money, for a lot of people it's just not worth it in the end.

Absolutely, it takes Universal doing their part too in order to harbor a better environment and event that’s more welcoming and safe for everyone. SA’s, TM’s and guests.

The misogynistic content was honestly the biggest reason I just couldn’t find myself that interested in Bill & Ted. Hearing how beloved that show was and for the first time I go in to see it I’m treated to a Taylor Swift rape joke? I knew I wasn’t their target audience, and the audience applauding a rape joke is part of the problem, but, the fact that it was in there in the first place in 2016 (where a woman character was the icon)—the responsibility for that content absolutely fell on the shoulders of Universal. They did the right thing by pulling the show if it couldn’t adapt to the times, but, they need to step up and do more because it’s not enough.

 

[Nick]

I could go on an entire rant about the size discrimination that goes on particularly for female performers. Women (honestly, PEOPLE in general, but the inherent misogyny in Horror and theme park entertainment casting hurts women worst of all) of all shapes, sizes, ethnicities, orientations, etc. deserve an equal opportunity to work.

But on the subject of female performers being harrassed, It absolutely doesn't help that so many female performers are used as sexual objects for the enjoyment of men. That's no fault of the performers, its the fault of the people designing the characters/costumes and the fault of the creators of the IPs the creative team brings in. Frankly, I get frustrated seeing people call zones like Rob Zombie a really good zone when the living dead girl scareactresses were really the ONLY scareactresses who weren't there to be sexy eye candy. That fault lays on Rob Zombie's content and aesthetic, but I wish there was a bit more of a critical eye and view

I know one of the guys who worked in that zone and I remember him saying he had to fight multiple battles - the pervs trying to peek up on the go-go dancers by looking up their skirts and then protecting the females on the ground, which was next to an impossible task. And this was coming from a guy who has worked HHN for I believe over 20 years.

 

[Allison]

If anyone’s got the time and is interested in a quick, under 8 minutes watch I found this dissection of the male gaze (a.k.a. part of the problem in that HHN tends to cater to it) towards Harley Quinn (the character we know Chance is based on) really interesting.

 

[TheJauntlet]

I believe firmly that the horror/haunt community and industry need to take a step back to deal with the misogyny, racism, homophobia, and transphobia that has become so prominent in the genre. Even though it seems we’re moving away from it with scarezones like VB, which felt like a celebration of being LGBT instead of using the LGBT community as the bad guys, we also get scarezones like Hellbilly which was just uncomfortable to be in. With LGBT, BIPOC, and women being so prominent in the haunt and horror community, I’d have expected the industry to have learned by now. I’m both male and white, so I can’t speak much on the misogyny and racism in the community as I haven’t personally experienced it (though I have seen it happen excessively to others and it needs to be addressed), but as a part of the LGBT community, I’d like to offer this video essay on the impact horror has played on how society views us, and how we view horror. I want to see this change, I no longer want us to be seen as the villains or monsters.

 

[Living Dead Dude]

I believe firmly that the horror/haunt community and industry need to take a step back to deal with the misogyny, racism, homophobia, and transphobia that has become so prominent in the genre. Even though it seems we’re moving away from it with scarezones like VB, which felt like a celebration of being LGBT instead of using the LGBT community as the bad guys, we also get scarezones like Hellbilly which was just uncomfortable to be in. With LGBT, BIPOC, and women being so prominent in the haunt and horror community, I’d have expected the industry to have learned by now. I’m both male and white, so I can’t speak much on the misogyny and racism in the community as I haven’t personally experienced it (though I have seen it happen excessively to others and it needs to be addressed), but as a part of the LGBT community, I’d like to offer this video essay on the impact horror has played on how society views us, and how we view horror. I want to see this change, I no longer want us to be seen as the villains or monsters.

If you don’t mind me asking what made you uncomfortable about Hellbilly?

 

[TheJauntlet]

If you don’t mind me asking what made you uncomfortable about Hellbilly?

I don’t mind at all! Keep in mind, this is all personal taste and if you liked Hellbilly, that’s great, you don’t have to agree.
Hellbilly fit Rob Zombie’s aesthetic perfectly, and unfortunately that is part of the issue. The horror of the scarezone revolved mostly around using the Go-Go dancers as almost a sort of eye-candy, and because of that, it created a very trashy environment that just felt gross to be in. Now, feeling gross is something I tend to like in horror, it means horror is doing it’s job: however this felt gross in a way that was rooted more in misogyny and the objectification of women. That’s what made it so uncomfortable for me.
In addition, the scarezone attracted a specific crowd of mostly drunk men, and while in that scarezone I saw scareactors (especially female scareactors) being harassed by these drunk park goers. Attracting this kind if crowd by objectifying people is bad enough in movies, but at haunts it’s worse because this is a live, physical performer that has to interact in close range with people who may view them as no more than a prop. They could be heckled, assaulted, or injured. Hellbilly is basically the sole reason I advocate so firmly about making HHN a dry event, because that zone showed me how little you can trust the general audience around scareactors when they’re drunk.
I hope this makes sense! Once again, this is personal taste and personal opinion. Please feel free to educate me if I’ve said anything wrong though.