Halloween Horror Nights 31 (UOR) - Speculation & Rumors

[Clive]

Considering Hellgate wasn’t received well by the public back in 2004, that would be an interesting choice if they went a similar route now. :_:

Says who? Many people who experienced the original Hellgate label it a classic.

 

[Tbad556]

It also wouldn't be the first time Hellgate has returned seeing as RUN: Blood, Sweat, and Fears from 2015 took place in Hellgate and Hellgate had a scene in SCarey last year. They're clearly not afraid of bringing it back

 

[StrangeP]

Says who? Many people who experienced the original Hellgate label it a classic.

There were protesters for mental health because of the portrayal of insane inmates. More related to the Mascot that year, but he was part of the house.

 

[Clive]

There were protesters for mental health because of the portrayal of insane inmates. More related to the Mascot that year, but he was part of the house.

What evidence do you have that there were protests? Was this reported by the media somewhere? It's the first I'm hearing of it. The only "controversy" I can recall is people being surprised by the intensity, particularly the foul language used by several of the "inmates." This is in large part what made it a classic in the eyes of many fans (and also a reason I believe a new iteration would struggle to have the same impact).

Furthermore, does a handful of protests really translate to "the house wasn't received well by the public?"

I'm under the impression that the mental patient was not part of the house - he was exclusively used in marketing (and his presentation was more consistent with Psychoscareapy, which was introduced the preceding year).

 

[StrangeP]

What evidence do you have that there were protests? Was this reported by the media somewhere? It's the first I'm hearing of it. The only "controversy" I can recall is people being surprised by the intensity, particularly the foul language used by several of the "inmates." This is in large part what made it a classic in the eyes of many fans (and also a reason I believe a new iteration would struggle to have the same impact).

Furthermore, does a handful of protests really translate to "the house wasn't received well by the public?"

I'm under the impression that the mental patient was not part of the house - he was exclusively used in marketing (and his presentation was more consistent with Psychoscareapy, which was introduced the preceding year).

Ok wow. I was not looking to argue about it. Was just bringing up something I read. It’s not that serious. I’m not a troll or anything like that. I don’t post often, but I’ve been reading for years. I will go back to that. My bad.

 

[FaceBagman]

people being surprised by the intensity, particularly the foul language used by several of the "inmates."

Yeahhhhh this and everything I've ever seen or heard about this house just sounds like every other Generic Prison (AKA: Put some aggro guys who look like they just came from a dive bar in jeans & tanktops and have them yell suggestive threats at guests) House I've been through or seen. Probably passable by 2004 standards but I'd really hope that Universal could do something unique and thoughtful or at least a little creative here, even if it is a last-minute replacement. :/

Like you said, most modern HHN houses have been relying on recorded sound cues and not the kind of imrov that OG houses like Hellgate relied on (the last exception I can think of being a little bit of Ho1000C early on in the house); those soundbites could be a hindrance to a new house trying too hard to recapture the old one's feel.

 

[Legacy]

Considering Hellgate wasn’t received well by the public back in 2004, that would be an interesting choice if they went a similar route now. :_:

There were protesters for mental health because of the portrayal of insane inmates. More related to the Mascot that year, but he was part of the house.

The house still rated in the top 3 that year (pretty sure was second only behind Castle Vampyr).

Any “insane” inmates in the house were not overtly insane with the padded room from the commercial not even being memorable. The protests didn’t impact the perception of the house at all.

What DID cause a hesitation in bringing the house back was change in performance vibe across the entire event. Hellgate granted their prisoners carte blanche improv ability to interact with guests. It was basically full of cut-rate barkers leaning HARD into every “scary prison” trope—with all the violent misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia that entails. While most houses were PG13, Hellgate was R due to the improv. It’s one of reasons Universal started tightly controlling house performances.

But, that’s also what MADE the house work. So, it was a double-edged sword.

Now, Hellgate was an men’s prison. They have not (to my knowledge) changed the female-centric casting of Evil Dead Rise for its replacement. That, by itself, will drastically change the tone.

EDIT - I think it’s POSSIBLE they go the route of the burning women’s prison that killed the Legion from 2012.

 

[FaceBagman]

^Come to think of it, the chainsaw-wielder who rotated in-and-out of SCarey's finale last year was a female inmate, right?

 

[StrangeP]

The house still rated in the top 3 that year (pretty sure was second only behind Castle Vampyr).

Any “insane” inmates in the house were not overtly insane with the padded room from the commercial not even being memorable. The protests didn’t impact the perception of the house at all.

What DID cause a hesitation in bringing the house back was change in performance vibe across the entire event. Hellgate granted their prisoners carte blanche improv ability to interact with guests. It was basically full of cut-rate barkers leaning HARD into every “scary prison” trope—with all the violent misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia that entails. While most houses were PG13, Hellgate was R due to the improv. It’s one of reasons Universal started tightly controlling house performances.

But, that’s also what MADE the house work. So, it was a double-edged sword.

Now, Hellgate was an men’s prison. They have not (to my knowledge) changed the female-centric casting of Evil Dead Rise for its replacement. That, by itself, will drastically change the tone.

EDIT - I think it’s POSSIBLE they go the route of the burning women’s prison that killed the Legion from 2012.

I appreciate this response. This is definitely the kind of insight I was looking for.

The Women’s prison idea sounds like a great one. Super interesting.

 

[Clive]

Ok wow. I was not looking to argue about it. Was just bringing up something I read. It’s not that serious. I’m not a troll or anything like that. I don’t post often, but I’ve been reading for years. I will go back to that. My bad.

I'm not trying to start an argument about it, either, but I think it's fair to ask for evidence when broad generalizations are made. If there were protests, I'd be interested in reading about them, as it's not something I've ever come across. Either way, though, I think it's fair to point out most HHN fans who experienced the house came out fans.

I completely agree, for what it's worth, that the Hellgate of 2004 can in no way exist in 2022. Hellgate's appearance in 2015 was mostly symbolic, while its cameo last year was generic and shared its spot with Havoc. It'll be interesting to see the approach they take. A largely-female prison would definitely be a fresher take, but how do you make the house successful without the intense banter that made the original unique? A tough problem, to be sure, especially when they're under this sort of time crunch.

I'm not even sure Psychoscareapy can really ever come back in its original incarnation - the sequels tried (with varying to success) to move away from the stereotypical depiction of "crazy people in a loony bin." 2006's effort injected more borderline fantasy/supernatural into the premise with the addition of Jack, who had all of the wards in his thrall. 2010's effort seemed like it was shooting more for a Downey Asylum vibe - that is, more haunting and melancholy (with the ward explicitly rendered as ghosts) than outright crazy.

 

[StrangeP]

I'm not trying to start an argument about it, either, but I think it's fair to ask for evidence when broad generalizations are made. If there were protests, I'd be interested in reading about them, as it's not something I've ever come across. Either way, though, I think it's fair to point out most HHN fans who experienced the house came out fans.

I completely agree, for what it's worth, that the Hellgate of 2004 can in no way exist in 2022. Hellgate's appearance in 2015 was mostly symbolic, while its cameo last year was generic and shared its spot with Havoc. It'll be interesting to see the approach they take. A largely-female prison would definitely be a fresher take, but how do you make the house successful without the intense banter that made the original unique? A tough problem, to be sure, especially when they're under this sort of time crunch.

I'm not even sure Psychoscareapy can really ever come back in its original incarnation - the sequels tried (with varying to success) to move away from the stereotypical depiction of "crazy people in a loony bin." 2006's effort injected more borderline fantasy/supernatural into the premise with the addition of Jack, who had all of the wards in his thrall. 2010's effort seemed like it was shooting more for a Downey Asylum vibe - that is, more haunting and melancholy (with the ward explicitly rendered as ghosts) than outright crazy.

I read it in an old copy of HHNU’s book I have laying around the house. According to that, there was a silent protest outside the gates and it was even on the local news. They were called out by the National Mental Heath Associations of Florida. In reference to the mascot who was a bald inmate in a straitjacket.

I just thought it would be an interesting choice for 2022 if it were to come back close to the original form because of how it was received by some back then. Now knowing what legacy said about it, even more so!

 

[MikePat]

I like the font they used on the speculation map...

 

[Legacy]

I'm not trying to start an argument about it, either, but I think it's fair to ask for evidence when broad generalizations are made. If there were protests, I'd be interested in reading about them, as it's not something I've ever come across. Either way, though, I think it's fair to point out most HHN fans who experienced the house came out fans.

I completely agree, for what it's worth, that the Hellgate of 2004 can in no way exist in 2022. Hellgate's appearance in 2015 was mostly symbolic, while its cameo last year was generic and shared its spot with Havoc. It'll be interesting to see the approach they take. A largely-female prison would definitely be a fresher take, but how do you make the house successful without the intense banter that made the original unique? A tough problem, to be sure, especially when they're under this sort of time crunch.

I'm not even sure Psychoscareapy can really ever come back in its original incarnation - the sequels tried (with varying to success) to move away from the stereotypical depiction of "crazy people in a loony bin." 2006's effort injected more borderline fantasy/supernatural into the premise with the addition of Jack, who had all of the wards in his thrall. 2010's effort seemed like it was shooting more for a Downey Asylum vibe - that is, more haunting and melancholy (with the ward explicitly rendered as ghosts) than outright crazy.

Which is why I think going with the prison on fire would be a compelling (and honestly, timely) approach to it. Suddenly, a house that would have featured vignettes of Deadites and their victims could feature vignettes of victims trapped in a burning building with minimal conversion. Throw in some hyper-aggressive guards who are refusing to let the prisoners out despite the death trap they’re in…

The horror in this house comes from the fact that *you* (the guests) are not doing anything about it. Our own apathy and voyeurism is suddenly turned against us. How do you take a house known for the extreme it went to without being offensive? Do that. Make the guests the monsters.

EDIT - And honestly, “Fires of Hellgate Prison” is a kickass title.

 

[JunoSynth]

I actually did some math about IP houses earlier because idk I’m a nerd lol.

Going from 2012 this is the percentage of IP houses to original houses, I wasn’t thinking of scarezones.

2012: 71%
2013: 62.5%
2014: 62.5%
2015: 55.5%
2016: 66.6%
2017: 55.5%
2018: 60%
2019: 60%
2021: 40%
2022: 40%

I like those recent numbers. Hopefully they keep going down. lol.

Also: Hellgate was the most intense HHN house I've been too. They actually used some pretty foul langauge. I doubt I will see a house as intense as that one again.

 

[Clive]

Which is why I think going with the prison on fire would be a compelling (and honestly, timely) approach to it. Suddenly, a house that would have featured vignettes of Deadites and their victims could feature vignettes of victims trapped in a burning building with minimal conversion. Throw in some hyper-aggressive guards who are refusing to let the prisoners out despite the death trap they’re in…

The horror in this house comes from the fact that *you* (the guests) are not doing anything about it. Our own apathy and voyeurism is suddenly turned against us. How do you take a house known for the extreme it went to without being offensive? Do that. Make the guests the monsters.

EDIT - And honestly, “Fires of Hellgate Prison” is a kickass title.

Super into this idea, but practical question: How does legal/the fire marshal feel about a maze that predominantly features a structure "on fire?" I honestly have no clue what restrictions they might try to enforce.

 

[Legacy]

Super into this idea, but practical question: How does legal/the fire marshal feel about a maze that predominantly features a structure "on fire?" I honestly have no clue what restrictions they might try to enforce.

Conceptually and effects wise, it’s not that difficult from being in a lantern.

 

[MikePat]

Conceptually and effects wise, it’s not that difficult from being in a lantern.

Sounds like Halloween 2's burning building ending but extended into a full house? Is that kind of your idea?

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

My favorite comment so far, compliments of the youtube announcement video:

"This is disappointing. It's horror nights, not "let's dance and sing" nights."

I'm deceased.

I had noticed far less vitriol to this than to Billie. So, maybe @Allison was correct after all.

While on the Bugs topic, if the house is "comedic" to some degree, this could still be scary due to people’s phobias of Bugs (like for an example Wasps).

Also, if we are playing the "compare an original to a movie game," then the house in Sprung Tent 1 might be the closest we get to a C.H.U.D. house in my opinion.

If they were playing it completely serious I would buy a one night ticket for this house alone

(Actually, my SO—who hates horror—is suddenly interested by The Weeknd, so I may need to go regardless...just goes to show why they include properties like that. Do they still have the bring a Coke can and get a discount deal?)

 

[Legacy]

Sounds like Halloween 2's burning building ending but extended into a full house? Is that kind of your idea?

Lantern, Halloween 2, Orfanage, In-Between finale…

It’s not an unfamiliar set-up.

 

[Crowboy]

People thought the controller was too hurtful and mean last year lol, they could never do hellgate again.