Justice League (2017/2021)

[foodstampsFTW]

I’m happy that DC fans got the movie they wanted. But I have no intentions on ever watching this again and found it a chore to sit through the whole thing.

 

[Nick]

I’m happy that DC fans got the movie they wanted. But I have no intentions on ever watching this again and found it a chore to sit through the whole thing.

I've still never watched Man of Steel or BvS in full (and never saw the 2017 JL at all), so I have no plans of watching this as of right now because I have no reason to. But i'm glad DC fans are enjoying it at least like you said.

 

[jseal777]

I just still cannot believe with how awful BVS was fans still clamored for AND GOT 4 MORE HOURS of snyder nonsense. good on them I guess.

 

[Brian G.]

I'll eat the crow. I enjoyed it. Would I watch it again? Maybe not. (Although I joked with a friend that I'd rather watch 4 hours of JL again than 2.5 hours of WW84)

Yes, it's too long - and some of the familiar Snyder tropes stick out, but it felt like a whole new movie. Could it have been shorter? Yes; but at the same time, since most of the DCEU was a rush job to play catch up with Marvel, it helped flesh out Aquaman (since this was supposed to be pre-solo film), Flash, and Cyborg a lot more.

And Leto as this Joker was engaging for the short amount of screen time he had. I'd love to see more of THAT Joker.

 

[Nick]

I'm gonna try and watch this within the next week. BvS turned me off of the DCEU massively. Not to the point where I just wouldn't watch anymore at all, but it really turned me off of the original DCEU specifically. So I literally have never seen Suicide Squad or Justice League and only watched Man of Steel for the first time *yesterday*. And i'll say this - I actually really enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. I still had some issues with it and I feel like a lot of things weren't earned and the character development wasn't quite there, but overall I enjoyed it.

Now just because I have sort of been out of the loop on those films doesn't mean I don't watch the DC stuff still. I'm seen both Wonder Woman movies, Aquaman, and Shazam. And outside of the DCEU is where I really feel like they're hitting it out of the park. Joker, Wacthmen, Doom Patrol. Plus with the upcoming The Batman and with James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, I thought why should I even bother with some of that early DCEU stuff? It felt irrelevant.

But I do want to watch this, but I plan on doing it without watch Joss Whedon's Justice League first. I'll eventually watch that version, but I want to just this film as it's own thing without having another film in my mind i'm constantly comparing it to. I'll be real though, the prospect of 4 hours of a 4:3 aspect ratio movie doesn't necessarily thrill me.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I'm gonna try and watch this within the next week. BvS turned me off of the DCEU massively. Not to the point where I just wouldn't watch anymore at all, but it really turned me off of the original DCEU specifically. So I literally have never seen Suicide Squad or Justice League and only watched Man of Steel for the first time *yesterday*. And i'll say this - I actually really enjoyed Man of Steel for what it was. I still had some issues with it and I feel like a lot of things weren't earned and the character development wasn't quite there, but overall I enjoyed it.

Now just because I have sort of been out of the loop on those films doesn't mean I don't watch the DC stuff still. I'm seen both Wonder Woman movies, Aquaman, and Shazam. And outside of the DCEU is where I really feel like they're hitting it out of the park. Joker, Wacthmen, Doom Patrol. Plus with the upcoming The Batman and with James Gunn's The Suicide Squad, I thought why should I even bother with some of that early DCEU stuff? It felt irrelevant.

But I do want to watch this, but I plan on doing it without watch Joss Whedon's Justice League first. I'll eventually watch that version, but I want to just this film as it's own thing without having another film in my mind i'm constantly comparing it to. I'll be real though, the prospect of 4 hours of a 4:3 aspect ratio movie doesn't necessarily thrill me.

Out of the BvS, which version have you seen? I would recommend watching the Directors Cut of that, as it helps give a bit more context to certain things for Snyder's take.

 

[Nick]

Out of the BvS, which version have you seen? I would recommend watching the Directors Cut of that, as it helps give a bit more context to certain things for Snyder's take.

I actually did watch the extended cut (I own the Blu-Ray). I've never seen the theatrical version.

 

[Legacy]

All of the slow-motion shots could have been played at regular speed and you would have cut an hour off the run time.

 

[Pirate Athos]

And..now, the one scene that I will go through the trouble on adding an extra layer of spoilers, because I legitimately didn't expect it.

Spoiler: Last call

So, the third to last major scene, of Lex Luthor escaping from Arkham..was from Snyder's version. However, they changed it from the two versions. In Whedons, it seems that they were setting up more of the League of Villians, where as here..we get very clearly Lex wanting Deathstroke to go after Batman, even using Bruce's name to entice Slade into getting a drink. Out of all the things--please; let us see this story. I want to see how the hell Slade uses Bruce's secret to his advantage, and the lengths in a "Hunt" against The Batman. Absolutely enthralling to not expect that at all.

Spoiler

That scene was the lead in for the solo Batman movie Affleck was writing and directing, which got scrapped once WB decided to force out Snyder

Sooo. This is the most METAL superhero movie ever IMO.

Spoiler

Black suit Superman with the heat vision on Steppenwolf, and Steppenwolf's defeat with the trident, super punch, beheading, and final foot/head stomp was just so.....fricking amazing And thats the two that stand out most to me there was so much more like the future scene, the scene from ancient times with the lantern and the gods joining the fight. Just do damn metal.

Is it the best superhero movie to me? I'm going to have to watch it again to see, but its easily in my top 5.

At the minimum I think people should watch both versions just to see the difference of when a studio interferes with a movie, and when they don't.

I get that some people dont like Snyder's style especially the slow motion stuff. For me though I appreciate it. IT makes those scenes look like art, and feel almost mythic in level. Which is fitting because we are watching a movie about godlike mythical beings.

Snyder wasn't the only one redeemed in this film. Leto's Joker was amazing and I want more of that please. That whole exchange between him and Batman was perfect.

The movie setup so much for what was suppose to be the DCEU. We saw direct lead ins for the Aquaman movie, the Affleck solo Batman movie, the solo Flash movie, and the next Justice League film. Plus new characters from the comics peppered in that will obviously pay off later.

Just overall so damn good and I'm anxious to watch it again.

 

[Nick]

So I think what i've realized that the reason why I tend to like Marvel more than DC (writing this right before I’m about to watch Snyder Cut) is that these are all very god-like beings. They are completely unrelatable. Not that I need a fantasy/superheo movie to be relatable, but I just recently watched the first Avengers and it's a good 1:1 comparison.

The worst part is I don’t think they need to be unrelatable just because they’re god-like. It’s the way the characters are written. They can still be comics accurate while adding in humanizing elements. Look at the new Superman & Lois show for instance. It’s probably the first good Superman project that manages to showcase him as a superhero AND as a family man and how he manages to balance both.

Now again, it’s not that I need fantasy/superhero films to be realistic, but given the choice between the route the DCEU took and the MCU took, I’ll take the MCU every day. If I want to watch a Superhero project that plays itself “serious”, I’ll go watch Joker, Watchman (show), The Dark Knight Trilogy, or Black Panther. For me, I just like it better when the movies are fun and have a sense of humor to them that brings them down to earth.

 

[Brian G.]

So I think what i've realized that the reason why I tend to like Marvel more than DC (writing this right before I’m about to watch Snyder Cut) is that these are all very god-like beings. They are completely unrelatable. Not that I need a fantasy/superheo movie to be relatable, but I just recently watched the first Avengers and it's a good 1:1 comparison.

The worst part is I don’t think they need to be unrelated just because they’re god-like. It’s the way the characters are written. They can still be comics accurate while adding in humanizing elements. Look at the new Superman & Lois show for instance. It’s probably the first good Superman project that manages to showcase him as a superhero AND as a family man and how he manages to balance both.

Now again, it’s not that I need fantasy/superhero films to be realistic, but given the choice between the route the DCEU took and the MCU took, I’ll take the MCU every day. If I want to watch a Superhero project that plays itself “serious”, I’ll go watch Joker, Watchman (show), The Dark Knight Trilogy, or Black Panther. For me, I just like it better when the movies are fun and have a sense of humor to them that brings them down to earth.

While Snydercut is still DC-serious, it still has a lot of light moments. It seems Snyder took some of the BvS complaints seriously in that regard and does a relatively good job balancing it out.

 

[HalfGlass]

I surprisingly felt that Miller’s Flash way more insufferable this time whereas he was just kind of there in Whedon’s version.

I found Snyder’s cut to definitely be superior despite being bloated, but this version actually made me less excited for Flashpoint.

I wish they would just start over again. I really want a Justice League that is much more in line with what Marvel’s doing...I know that was exactly the opposite of what they were aiming to do initially, but outside of Batman, none of these characters deserve to be this dark, at least not as a first intro.

Play Injustice: Gods Among Us and compare it to the ending of this film and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.

 

[Pirate Athos]

I surprisingly felt that Miller’s Flash way more insufferable this time whereas he was just kind of there in Whedon’s version.

I found Snyder’s cut to definitely be superior despite being bloated, but this version actually made me less excited for Flashpoint.

I wish they would just start over again. I really want a Justice League that is much more in line with what Marvel’s doing...I know that was exactly the opposite of what they were aiming to do initially, but outside of Batman, none of these characters deserve to be this dark, at least not as a first intro.

Play Injustice: Gods Among Us and compare it to the ending of this film and you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about.

Why would you want something that is like Marvel, when we already have Marvel? DC needs to be different not a clone.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I think he means a more...well thought out and relatable universe, that can easily connect without having the need to explicitedly watch everything to know. Honestly, I think while this is the most accessible Snyder film (which says a lot); it is the most bloated. It's a weird, weeird double edged sword that can turn people off.

Should they reboot the DCEU? Yeah. I think it's time. It's actually why I'm kind of excited for the Bad Robot productions; because if they're successful, it should lead to the start of a new universe, one hopefully more better connected and less tampered.

 

[Pirate Athos]

So I think what i've realized that the reason why I tend to like Marvel more than DC (writing this right before I’m about to watch Snyder Cut) is that these are all very god-like beings. They are completely unrelatable. Not that I need a fantasy/superheo movie to be relatable, but I just recently watched the first Avengers and it's a good 1:1 comparison.

Disagree about them being unrelatable. They maybe for you but for many, they are relatable.


Avengers isn't a good 1:1 comparison. For the very reason you give as why you find the characters unrelatable. JL are god like beings (except Batman), where the Avengers (except for Thor) are essentially a normal person raised to exceptional. They are opposite. So is the storytelling. The only thing in common is they are a comic book movie.

The worst part is I don’t think they need to be unrelatable just because they’re god-like. It’s the way the characters are written. They can still be comics accurate while adding in humanizing elements. Look at the new Superman & Lois show for instance. It’s probably the first good Superman project that manages to showcase him as a superhero AND as a family man and how he manages to balance both.

You are making a judgment about the characters before seeing the movie. See the movie then make the judgment. One of the things alot of people said about ZSJL is that all the characters are more relatable because the movie gives them all time to breathe.

Now again, it’s not that I need fantasy/superhero films to be realistic, but given the choice between the route the DCEU took and the MCU took, I’ll take the MCU every day. If I want to watch a Superhero project that plays itself “serious”, I’ll go watch Joker, Watchman (show), The Dark Knight Trilogy, or Black Panther. For me, I just like it better when the movies are fun and have a sense of humor to them that brings them down to earth.

It's funny, I'm kind of opposite of how you feel, now. I'm kind of done with Marvel especially after WandaVision. I just have no enthusiasm for them anymore, they all feel the same to me. ZSJL felt cinematic, epic, and most importantly different to me. It made me want more of that style of storytelling with comic material, and less of the Marvel formula.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Coming from someone who has sung high praises for the DCEU in multiple instances (and as someone who wants to see Snyder's work continue sometime down in the road [even if it's something like the Terminator Salvation Dark Horse comic run]), I do not want the DCEU as it is now to continue.

Start from scratch. I think at this point there is enough of a stigma with the DCEU to where it'd be better to start clean with projects that don't have to be directly connected in the immediate; than to do a full length movie universe like Marvel. I would actually like them to take some notes from Marvel's lineup of films; in the diversity and creativity that the writing teams can do. Especially when you look at filmmakers like Taika, Gunn, and Coogler. Start from scratch on the actors. I don't mind the idea of a Black superman, or Pattingson being the new Batman fully. The only thing I want to see done creatively that'd differ, is to let the filmmakers have their own level of being able to create. Sometimes, moderation can be helpful (Shazam comes to mind), and non-moderation can be problematic (WW84).

I loved Snyder's Justice League. It does a lot to redeem the DCEU's past filmography prior to this; and it setted the door nicely open for films that could've been interesting. But I don't think at this point; continuing the "Snyder-Verse" would be helpful in a theatrical state. Especially as two of the main trinity are moving elsewhere into their own avenues and the other actors are also moving on. If anything has me hopeful--it's for Hollywood to give Ray Fisher a chance more properly in film. I think he did fantastic in Justice League; as he was the "heart" of the movie.

 

[Pirate Athos]

I think he means a more...well thought out and relatable universe, that can easily connect without having the need to explicitedly watch everything to know. Honestly, I think while this is the most accessible Snyder film (which says a lot); it is the most bloated. It's a weird, weeird double edged sword that can turn people off.

Should they reboot the DCEU? Yeah. I think it's time. It's actually why I'm kind of excited for the Bad Robot productions; because if they're successful, it should lead to the start of a new universe, one hopefully more better connected and less tampered.

The Snyderverse was well thought out, and relatable. That was till the WB suits started getting involved and wanted the DCEU more like the MCU.

MCU is a universe that you have to watch everything if you want to know what is going on. You cant just go into the MCU shows cold, or Endgame, or even any of the sequals without seeing what came before. It's really no different then what the DCEU was doing under Snyder, until Wheadon's Justice League which didn't take the time to explain characters.

I don't feel that a reboot is really needed. I like the multiverse approach they are going with. It doesn't all need to be connected. I do want to see more of the Snyderverse though.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

MCU is a universe that you have to watch everything if you want to know what is going on. You cant just go into the MCU shows cold, or Endgame, or even any of the sequals without seeing what came before. It's really no different then what the DCEU was doing under Snyder, until Wheadon's Justice League which didn't take the time to explain characters.

I wouldn't entirely agree with you on that. I'd argue MCU has plenty of open keyhole films that you can get into easily without having the slightest clue of what it means in the long run.

Guardians Vol. 1 and 2 are neatly contained while having some significance into the MCU. The First Avenger and the first two Iron Man films are also good keyhole films that can ease you into core aspects, themes, and motifs. You don't need much to go off of with those four films; and even the first Avengers film nicely introduces elements such as Thor and Loki in a way that isn't breaking one's belief. Especially after watching the first two Iron Men and Captain America films.

Honestly as my own kind of thought bubble--I think rebooting the DCEU in the same way the MCU started makes a lot of sense. Start small; focus on characters that wouldn't be as relevant, then work up. It's why I am excited for Blue Beetle and Zatanna; because I think they can be the potential means of starting the next DCEU properly; without having to immediately resort to Superman or Batman. I want to see more Snyderverse eventually. But with the stances that individuals like Affleck and Snyder have taken (the former due towards the shift of theatrical to straight to services); it loses a lot of potential quickly and fast.

 

[Pirate Athos]

I wouldn't entirely agree with you on that. I'd argue MCU has plenty of open keyhole films that you can get into easily without having the slightest clue of what it means in the long run.

Guardians Vol. 1 and 2 are neatly contained while having some significance into the MCU. The First Avenger and the first two Iron Man films are also good keyhole films that can ease you into core aspects, themes, and motifs. You don't need much to go off of with those four films; and even the first Avengers film nicely introduces elements such as Thor and Loki in a way that isn't breaking one's belief. Especially after watching the first two Iron Men and Captain America films.

Honestly as my own kind of thought bubble--I think rebooting the DCEU in the same way the MCU started makes a lot of sense. Start small; focus on characters that wouldn't be as relevant, then work up. It's why I am excited for Blue Beetle and Zatanna; because I think they can be the potential means of starting the next DCEU properly; without having to immediately resort to Superman or Batman. I want to see more Snyderverse eventually. But with the stances that individuals like Affleck and Snyder have taken (the former due towards the shift of theatrical to straight to services); it loses a lot of potential quickly and fast.

The movies you listed are similar to MoS, Aquaman, Wonder Woman. You didn't need to watch them all, they all could be entry films. Your statement though "that can easily connect without having the need to explicitedly watch everything to know" implies that you have to watch all the DC movies, which isn't really true, kind of like Marvel, except for the ones I mentioned.

I'm of a different opinion. I don't want a copy of the MCU with DC characters. I want something different.

 

[Nick]

Disagree about them being unrelatable. They maybe for you but for many, they are relatable.


Avengers isn't a good 1:1 comparison. For the very reason you give as why you find the characters unrelatable. JL are god like beings (except Batman), where the Avengers (except for Thor) are essentially a normal person raised to exceptional. They are opposite. So is the storytelling. The only thing in common is they are a comic book movie.

What I meant about 1:1 ratio was that was the first Avengers movie and this was Snyders original vision for Justice League. Justice League was fast-tracked to be the DCEU's Avengers, no?

You are making a judgment about the characters before seeing the movie. See the movie then make the judgment. One of the things alot of people said about ZSJL is that all the characters are more relatable because the movie gives them all time to breathe.

I've seen every other DECU movie now, so I think i'm allowed to make a judgement. Sure, i've heard things are a bit more comedic in the Snyder Cut, which is great, but it doesn't change every other Snyder DCEU movie.

It's funny, I'm kind of opposite of how you feel, now. I'm kind of done with Marvel especially after WandaVision. I just have no enthusiasm for them anymore, they all feel the same to me. ZSJL felt cinematic, epic, and most importantly different to me. It made me want more of that style of storytelling with comic material, and less of the Marvel formula.

Why are you being so defensive? Sure, I like the MCU, but I ALSO like DC. What I DON'T like is the 2013-2017 DCEU. Shazam, Birds of Prey and Wonder Woman are probably my favorite films. I feel like the DCEU is trending in the right direction right now and I really just don't want the success of this to impact actual *plans* going forward. I like that is seems like the DCEU kinda/sorta has a plan going forward now, which is what I enjoy about Marvel. The lack of a plan is what made the whole thing a mess in the beginning. Now that they've gotten past that, it looks like they are doing longer term planning with the universe so hopefully that doesn't change. Now they can bring Snyder back for a movie (hell have him do Man of Steel 2 or Justice League 2 if either of those happen), but at least plan it properly around everything else you have going on.