Star Wars: The Last Jedi

[rhino4evr]

This movie is an example of why a story needs to have 1 voice in creation. I have zero interest in a Harry Potter story not told by JK, a Hobbit story not told by Tolkien, a Godfather movie not directed by Coppola, etc. Once many voices tell the story, the story will necessarily change, maybe for the better, maybe for the worse, but the change alone means the story will not be complete. Directors can change, as that is a style choice, but the basic writing/story needs to be of 1 voice.
My greatest fear as a Stephen King fan was when he almost died before completing the Dark Tower series. Someone would have eventually picked up the pieces if he had, but the story would not have been the same. Regardless of whether I liked where he took the story, it was HIS to tell.
I am sure Rian ran his ideas past JJ, but from the interviews I have seen this week, it seems most of the big ideas were all his, now others need to tell a story they may not have wished to tell, being dealt these cards.

To be honest I’d take the Last Jedi over any of the prequel movies which were all written by George.

There is nothing wrong will mixing things up. If anything this movie corrected or killed off most of the main problems of force awakens.

 

[TheGentTrent]

I get where you guys are coming from. I do think this is the issue with having multiple directors involved with the same trilogy. George Lucas directed all six prior Star Wars movies to TFA and, even as bad as the prequels were, the story was solid and made sense within the lore.

Once you start a new trilogy, they really should've picked a director - JJ, Rian, whoever - and given that person the whole trilogy. JJ and Rian's vision of the trilogy and characters was clearly very different from each other. JJ will get 2 of the 3 movies, but it will be broken up by a movie that does mess with his original work a bit and now he has to work to sow it back together. I do think some of those mystery boxes are salvageable, though.

Lucas didn't direct Episodes V or VI.

 

[Nick]

Something hit me in the face that I didn't realize until a video pointed it out.

Spoiler

I never put much thought into what "The Force Awakens" actually meant. But what if it meant that something was changing with the force as we know it? That it was...awakening...not just in Rey, but across the galaxy. Like the little boy at the end of the film. Was Rey being a force whielding nobody an RJ swerve, or a purposeful direction from day 1 that nobody ever bothered to realize?

I mean, if you're going to keep churning these things out you have to move on from the Skywalker clan at some point. It makes a lot of sense franchise wise to make the force something a lot more achievable to everyone, regardless of bloodline.

I don't know, maybe this is the Star Wars we need right now. One that says you don't need to be special to stand up for what's right.

Yeah this doesn't explain Snoke, but like I said pure evil is boring anyway

Spoiler

I agree. With Han, Luke and Leia (inevitably) dead, the only Skywalker blood left is Ben Solo, and he's lost to the dark side. Not just because of Disney wanting to crank out movies, but it's almost ludicrous to think there's an entire galaxy out there and it just happens that this one family is with the force.

I mean... Anakin was a nobody, just like Rey. And Palpatine, similar to Snoke, was pretty much just a giant red herring. We don't know much about Snoke at all, but did we truly ever know anything about Palpatine before the prequels came out? There are similarities here.

And I mean, it's not like this is the first time we would've seen the force make it's way outside of the Skywalkers. Hell, two of the most loved characters in the franchise are Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda and they have no direct relation to the Skywalkers beyond training. The way I see it, the force chooses you. Bloodline be damned.

 

[pastis]

I disagree with the idea of mixing things up on a 3 part story. It is not Johnson's fault, he said he just read TFA script and had to think 'what came next', but the problem now is that JJ is forced to live with the finality of certain story choices. You may like the ideas f TLJ, but it is not a standalone movie, it is part of a total story that needed 1 voice, for better or worse.

 

[Nick]

Lucas didn't direct Episodes V or VI.

True.

However, the story was by Lucas for the entire Original Trilogy, he laid down a groundwork for what he wanted to happen. I'm not sure that they did that with this trilogy.

 

[pastis]

Actually Lucas did not even write Empire, that is why the dialogue is the best of all the movies lol. However, the story being told was his, so there was vision clarity at minimum.

 

[Nick]

Actually Lucas did not even write Empire, that is why the dialogue is the best of all the movies lol. However, the story being told was his, so there was vision clarity at minimum.

No he didn't "write" empire, Kasden did. However, he is credited with the Story for the film (and RotJ). And that's exactly what I meant. Maybe different directors could've handled this triology, but someone needed to be doing an overaching story for it and making sure that they stuck to it.

 

[fryoj]

I thought it was great, but I see the majority on this board are in the other camp. This movie didn’t “ruin” any legacy to me. It purposely deconstructed it, which I understand hurts some feelings, but I actually found it refreshing.

A lot of people criticized Force Awakens for being too similar, now they create something different and everyone citircizes it for “breaking the rules, assaniating characters, etc”

I just don’t think some people will ever be happy.

I think the people that complained about both movies are just the ones that don't like Star Wars or just want something to complain about. I think the ones that liked TFA are complaining about TLJ and vise versa. It's just that people who complain have the loudest voices. I loved TFA. It's one of my top SW movies. TLJ is near the bottom for me. Granted it's after one viewing, so that may change. But leaving TFA the first time, I was excited and ended up going again later the same week. Hell I liked all of movies really, even the prequels, and I don't automatically put ESB as my top one, so what do I know right? lol

Something hit me in the face that I didn't realize until a video pointed it out.

Spoiler

I never put much thought into what "The Force Awakens" actually meant. But what if it meant that something was changing with the force as we know it? That it was...awakening...not just in Rey, but across the galaxy. Like the little boy at the end of the film. Was Rey being a force whielding nobody an RJ swerve, or a purposeful direction from day 1 that nobody ever bothered to realize?

I mean, if you're going to keep churning these things out you have to move on from the Skywalker clan at some point. It makes a lot of sense franchise wise to make the force something a lot more achievable to everyone, regardless of bloodline.

I don't know, maybe this is the Star Wars we need right now. One that says you don't need to be special to stand up for what's right.

Yeah this doesn't explain Snoke, but like I said pure evil is boring anyway

Maybe I'm misreading what you are trying to say, but the Force was never a Skywalker exclusive. The Prequels clearly showed a diverse cast of Jedi. They come from all walks of life.

If they want to move past the Skywalkers, thats fine. Thats what the new Rian Johnson trilogy was about. But the trilogy of trilogies was always supposed to be the Skywalker Saga.

 

[quinnmac000]

Rian Johnson on fan backlash

“I’m aware through my own experience that, first of all, the fans are so passionate, they care so deeply — sometimes they care very violently at me on Twitter,” Johnson said. “But it’s because they care about these things, and it hurts when you’re expecting something specific and you don’t get it from something that you love. It always hurts, so I don’t take it personally if a fan reacts negatively and lashes out on me on Twitter. That’s fine. It’s my job to be there for that. Like you said, every fan has a list of stuff they want a Star Wars movie to be and they don’t want a Star Wars movie to be. You’re going to find very few fans out there whose lists line up.”

“I also know the same way the original movies were personal for Lucas,” Johnson continued. “Lucas never made a Star Wars movie by sitting down and thinking, ‘What do the fans want to see?’ And I knew if I wrote wondering what the fans would want, as tempting as that is, it wouldn’t work, because people would still be shouting at me, ‘F— you, you ruined Star Wars,’ and I would make a bad movie. And ultimately, that’s the one thing nobody wants.”

“And let me just add that 80-90% of the reaction I’ve gotten from Twitter has been really lovely,” Johnson added. “There’s been a lot of joy and love from fans. When I talk about the negative stuff, that’s not the full picture of the fans at all.”

So he purposely wrote things the fans didn't ask for so then he wouldn't have people say he ruined Star Wars yet by doing so he did just that. Maybe write things that make the best story and sense and if they align with what fans expect so be it. Not everything needs to be a surprise. Its just needs to be cohorent, logical, and good.

 

[fryoj]

Spoiler

Maybe I'm just forgetting it, but did anyone use the "I have a bad feeling about this" line in TLJ?

 

[JonsMovies]

Apparently it's in there but hidden, as BB-8 says the line to Poe somewhat early in the movie.

 

[IOAGuy]

Spoiler

Maybe I'm just forgetting it, but did anyone use the "I have a bad feeling about this" line in TLJ?

Spoiler

BB-8 supposedly says it when they're taking out the turrets on the Dreadnought

 

[pastis]

I feel Johnson's choice to make the movie about 'The Force' is the the equivalent to saying Harry Potter is about 'Magic'. In an overarching sense, it's true, but it's the Characters that keep you interested. And I agree that the prequels showed that there were all sorts of Jedi, from all species. They tapped into the Force just like the Skywalkers. This idea of Johnson's that anyone can use the force is not a new one, and no reason to have characters act so out of context as they have previously been known.

 

[rhino4evr]

Rian Johnson on fan backlash



So he purposely wrote things the fans didn't ask for so then he wouldn't have people say he ruined Star Wars yet by doing so he did just that. Maybe write things that make the best story and sense and if they align with what fans expect so be it. Not everything needs to be a surprise. Its just needs to be cohorent, logical, and good.

in defense, I found most of the Last Jedi coherent, logical, and good. So maybe your opinion of these terms is what the actual conflict is?

 

[quinnmac000]

in defense, I found most of the Last Jedi coherent, logical, and good. So maybe your opinion of these terms is what the actual conflict is?

Spoiler

Leia supermanning herself across space isn't logical. General Hux going from being feared to being made fun of and being put on hold by Poe doesn't make sense. Looking for the master code breaker and settling for some random guy makes no sense.

 

[Nick]

Spoiler

Leia supermanning herself across space isn't logical. General Hux going from being feared to being made fun of and being put on hold by Poe doesn't make sense. Looking for the master code breaker and settling for some random guy makes no sense.

You’re cherry picking for the most part, but...

Spoiler

1. That was a bit much definitely, but she has always been with the force.

2. It was slightly cringy, but it also was dialogue that perfectly suited Poe as a character. I could’ve done without it though.

3. The random guy proved himself to be a pretty decent code-breaker himself by getting them out of the cell. What reasoning did they have for continuing they’re quest for the master code breaker at that point? I honestly love Benecio Del Toro in his role; reminded me a bit of Han Solo. They never show if he dies or not at the end so personally I hope he makes another appearance in 9 in a larger role.

 

[Cwoolboy]

Interesting to see so many negative reactions not just on here, but on Youtube and various other sites. Personally, I loved the hell out of this film and thought it did a fantastic job of not only advancing the overall story and plot of this new trilogy, but also giving more depth to characters both new and returning. Definitely the most visually beautiful Star Wars film, and one of John Williams' best modern scores. Looking forward to seeing it again.

 

[ChrisFL]

George Lucas directed all six prior Star Wars movies to TFA and, even as bad as the prequels were, the story was solid and made sense within the lore.

edit: didn't see more people posted

Anyway, I watched the movie and enjoyed it as someone who isn't a die-hard fan, but I'm going to reserve judgment until I see Episode 9 and see how it all works together.

 

[Nick]

edit: didnt' see more people posted

Yeah we straightened that out That was my bad.

 

[ChrisFL]

Spoiler

For some reason I'm heavily reminded of the second Matrix movie, where there was a lot of "everything you know is wrong" (The Architect vs. Luke) and there was also two powerful forces that seemed to have equal power (Neo vs. Agent Smith and Rey vs. Kylo Ren), and the internet went wild with controversy/speculation. The difference is that there isn't really questions we EXPECT will be answered in Episode 9 yet.