The Icons and Lore Thread

[HHN Maddux]

Thinking about it more, it's fascinating that even when Jack took the Cane (which is what was keeping him alive presumably), Oddfellow still didn't die and instead returned to the Zodiac realm.

Now, Jack is trapped in the Lantern indefinitely, then Oddfellow returns?

It'd be an interesting twist if Adaru is possibly using both of them as Heralds of Chaos, and since Oddfellow was never Icon before, it's a loophole for him to use to keep gaining power.

 

[GA-MBIT]

Shoutout to the Pumpkin Lord Vs Fear headcanon, that's a really fun idea and I'd love to get a few more brand new icons to fit in the Pumpkin Lord's ranks for a Civil War anniversary year like some brought up. That's a banger idea and I love the thought of a 35/40 Icons house being almost like Legends Collide more than UCM 2019. Let them fight!!

 

[HHN Maddux]

Oddfellow makes a very big point in his zone that he intends for him and us to all conquer Fear, so that he may grow in power. Interesting implications for his ultimate plan.

 

[HHN Maddux]

Oddfellow makes a very big point in his zone that he intends for him and us to all conquer Fear, so that he may grow in power. Interesting implications for his ultimate plan.

Coming back to this, the new audio in Jungle of Doom now confirms his ultimate plan is to become the most powerful entity in the multiverse!

'This skull is one step closer to immortality, and me becoming the most powerful being in this universe and beyond!'

 

[HHN Maddux]

So it would seem Oddfellow is now considered yet another Herald, his being of Deceit. At first, I and many others agreed this doesn't make any sense considering both his and Adaru's lore, but I think I may have figured it out:

Oddfellow is the Herald of Deceit, because he is the owner/caretaker of the Lantern. His Deceit is allowing Adaru and the other Icons to believe they're the most powerful, when really they've already been enslaved by Oddfellow and are only giving him more power.

What if at HHN 40, it's not a civil war of Icons to determine who's more powerful, but a revolution against Oddfellow from the old Icons, demanding freedom?

 

[Legacy]

So it would seem Oddfellow is now considered yet another Herald, his being of Deceit. At first, I and many others agreed this doesn't make any sense considering both his and Adaru's lore, but I think I may have figured it out:

Oddfellow is the Herald of Deceit, because he is the owner/caretaker of the Lantern. His Deceit is allowing Adaru and the other Icons to believe they're the most powerful, when really they've already been enslaved by Oddfellow and are only giving him more power.

What if at HHN 40, it's not a civil war of Icons to determine who's more powerful, but a revolution against Oddfellow from the old Icons, demanding freedom?

If Oddfellow is officially a Herald, he officially is below Fear. The Heralds work for Fear.

If you just leave Fear as the biggest bad (which he should be, as he is an ancient Sumerian God and not just a guy who gains powers), then you don’t have work to find solutions.

All of the Heralds represent an element of Fear. That is their function. Deceit is an element of Fear just as much as Chaos, Luck, and Legend are.

EDIT - Oddfellow may want to overthrow Fear. But he hasn’t yet. I think it’s far more appropriate for the Herald of Deceit to have deceived himself into thinking he already has.

 

[HHN Maddux]

If Oddfellow is officially a Herald, he officially is below Fear. The Heralds work for Fear.

If you just leave Fear as the biggest bad (which he should be, as he is an ancient Sumerian God and not just a guy who gains powers), then you don’t have work to find solutions.

All of the Heralds represent an element of Fear. That is their function. Deceit is an element of Fear just as much as Chaos, Luck, and Legend are.

EDIT - Oddfellow may want to overthrow Fear. But he hasn’t yet. I think it’s far more appropriate for the Herald of Deceit to have deceived himself into thinking he already has.

I know, retcons and all that, but technically speaking he should be trapped in the Lantern with the others which is why I got that theory.

Honestly would've been much better to not make him a Herald at all IMO.

 

[Legacy]

I know, retcons and all that, but technically speaking he should be trapped in the Lantern with the others which is why I got that theory.

Honestly would've been much better to not make him a Herald at all IMO.

Just because we didn’t see him, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t in the lantern. We didn’t see Mary, she didn’t have a totem, but we know she was there.

This is where a focus on a canon that is literally being written on the fly without a singular “core” can distract what can be a simple, fun story.

 

[HHN Maddux]

Just because we didn’t see him, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t in the lantern. We didn’t see Mary, she didn’t have a totem, but we know she was there.

This is where a focus on a canon that is literally being written on the fly without a singular “core” can distract what can be a simple, fun story.

Fair point.

I agree it's a really fun story, and I love Oddfellow's lore, I just wish that maybe they could've at least done some better foreshadowing and/or hinting earlier that he was a Herald (if they were planning on him being one, unless Marketing just came up with this on the spot for merch).

 

[Legacy]

Fair point.

I agree it's a really fun story, and I love Oddfellow's lore, I just wish that maybe they could've at least done some better foreshadowing and/or hinting earlier that he was a Herald (if they were planning on him being one, unless Marketing just came up with this on the spot for merch).

They probably weren’t even planning on Oddfellow until 12-13 months ago. Character and story for the event likely wasn’t approved until December at the earliest. So it’s hard to foreshadow something like that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Herald decision happened after a fan asked a designer about it.

 

[pumpkinbot343]

It’s stuff like this why I don’t like to use wikis as a source for whatever (aside from the ads and the wikis owner company “fandom” being shady):

Yes that’s a actual quote as of right now. The fudgecakes is this? Aside from looking way too much into the lore I mean.

 

[DodgsonHere]

https://x.com/attractions/status/1710357528490447060?s=46&t=n-XLy-8f4Ixa-Fe_vvZJHg

Oh…

 

[Clive]

https://x.com/attractions/status/1710357528490447060?s=46&t=n-XLy-8f4Ixa-Fe_vvZJHg

Oh…

There's a bit of discussion going on in the News and Info thread, but yeah, I don't really buy Boris is an icon unless we're going by a completely different definition of what an icon is. Even with the "event impact" criteria, I don't think he fits, since the general public has no idea who he is.

 

[Kichkinet85]

There's a bit of discussion going on in the News and Info thread, but yeah, I don't really buy Boris is an icon unless we're going by a completely different definition of what an icon is. Even with the "event impact" criteria, I don't think he fits, since the general public has no idea who he is.

I agree and won't call Boris an icon, but to be fair the general public probably don't know about Usher, Storyteller, Director. etc.

 

[GA-MBIT]

Let's get real, these characters are all nobodies except for Jack and whatever character is in the intro zone spot each year haha. Boris is an Icon! He's an original character with heavy ties to the event and it's lore. He's gotten a house, a tribute store room, multiple ARG games, connections with other Icons and in-lore groups like Legendary Truth and Bloody Mary. You could recognize his design if someone cosplayed him, as I saw many people do back in 2021. and I don't see the Director holding a year-round residence in the New York land with a name drop plastered on the window!

At that, I cast my vote to induct Nightmare Queen from Halloween Nightmare Fuel to this conversation! I wouldn't have said that a year ago but given that the show series officially has a story and canon chronological events as of Revenge Dream, I'd say she counts enough! She's an original character with a specific, recognizable design with her own lore and three different shows across three different HHN events. That's more rep than some other pseudo-Icons get! Of course, she is..

Spoiler: Revenge Dream spoilers

canonically dead and replaced now haha, so maybe it's a moot point.

But I definitely think she has a place alongside Cindy, Bone & Blood, Boris, and others though!

 

[Legacy]

Hal Geluk! Ignatia Himmel! The lady Summer Aiello played when she was possessed by Fear!

The way Universal writes their canon, using “impact” as the qualifier reopens the conversation from a few months ago where the term “icon” basically has no meaning anymore.

If they’re going that route, they might as well go the Singapore where every house and zone has an “icon.”

 

[pumpkinbot343]

Everything could have been less confusing if they picked any other word other than “icon”.

 

[GA-MBIT]

I think I like the idea that not every HHN original character is an HHN Icon, but every original character could become an Icon with enough lasting prominence.

We've had the official Icon lineup with the specific archetype of having been the "main character" of the event bringing a unifying theme across the majority of houses in a given year, being a part of the marketing and promotion of the event, and getting their own house or zone. Even then, I'm pretty sure some of the classic Icons represented in the 30 house don't even follow those rules to a T. Regardless, I think Pumpkin Lord and Oddfellow fit into a role very similar to the classic Icons pretty nicely and I wouldn't be surprised to see them, but especially Oddfellow grouped in with the OG Icon crew more often going forward.

Then we had other characters that despite being used in similar ways to the Icons, weren't included in the main group due to differing technicalities. I don't think they'd be included in an HHN 40 Icon compilation house or anything, but in terms of prominence and impact on the event, I'd say these characters have a pretty substantial case to make.

- Cindy Caine
- Eddie
- Terra Queen
- H.R. Bloodngutz
- Little Boo
- Boris Schuster
- Bone
- Blood
- Meety Meets
- Nightmare Queen
- HHN Bear

I'd say there's probably a distinction between these and the general original monster types used over the years. We've seen Vamps, Nightingales, Yeti's, Sculders, Tooth Fairies, Mouthbrooders, etc return across many different years, some if not most returning in non-anniversary years. I think a pivotal difference is that you need a specific character to bridge the gap to New Icon. I say if The Controller (Seek and Destroy), B-Cide (Bug House), Dr. Faustus (Slaughter Sinema), or Charlie McPherson (Dead Exposure), The Collector (Darkest Deal), The Curator (32 Tribute Store), etc etc ends up returning year after year and appearing in prominent ways in future events, I think it's just semantics to call them anything but new HHN Icons by the standards of the creative team's new definition.

Again, I don't think the Icons lineup will actually drastically change in terms of the merchandise or branding, HHN Bear is not gonna be next to Jack and The Usher on the Hot Topic shirts, but I appreciate that the fan term has been widened a bit to catch the stray pseudo-Icons too. It's all just messy, fan squabbling anyways. Easiest solution, everyone's an Icon!

 

[HHN Maddux]

Jumping back to Oddfellow, did the RIP tour on the 8th, and our guide told us it's best to take the card as non-canon regarding the Herald status. Oddfellow is his own Icon.

 

[Clive]

Jumping back to Oddfellow, did the RIP tour on the 8th, and our guide told us it's best to take the card as non-canon regarding the Herald status. Oddfellow is his own Icon.

That's kind of along the same lines of "the bus driver told me this, so it's legit," though. Many of the guides are diehard HHN fans themselves and have their own opinions that can color their commentary. If official Universal merchandise positions him as a herald, I'd trust that over the assertion of a guide.