Universal Great Britain

[rob@rar]

Basically what have Tolkien’s estate agreed to. If it’s anything like Amazon it’s nothing good.

The ownership of the LOTR rights changed a couple of years ago, when Swedish company Embracer bought Miidle-Earth Enterprises from the Saul Zaentz Company. Perhaps Embracer is looking to cash in a little on their investment? I believe that these rights would include theme park attractions covering the entirety of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

 

[Steeb]

Alicia's video from last year when Universal were eyeing it for Epic (and possibly still are) shows they were exploring ride concepts based on the original trilogy and the Hobbit movies.

 

[Altonsky]

The ownership of the LOTR rights changed a couple of years ago, when Swedish company Embracer bought Miidle-Earth Enterprises from the Saul Zaentz Company. Perhaps Embracer is looking to cash in a little on their investment? I believe that these rights would include theme park attractions covering the entirety of The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

Alicia's video from last year when Universal were eyeing it for Epic (and possibly still are) shows they were exploring ride concepts based on the original trilogy and the Hobbit movies.

Well that’s hopeful and hopefully they have access to the entire IP.

I know Amazon had a lot of restrictions in place about what they can and can’t use.

 

[rob@rar]

Important to note that the theme park rights to LOTR which are now owned by Embracer don’t include the designs, imagery, musical score, etc, from the Peter Jackson movies. I’m sure those are held by Peter Jackson and/or New Line Cinema (now owned by Warner Bros). As much as I would love to wander around Bag End while Howard Shore’s brilliant score plays gently in the background, I don’t think that would be possible without multiple rights agreements between Universal and Middle-Earth Enterprises/Peter Jackson/Warner Bros.

 

[Steeb]

The rumour was that Universal had already secured the theme park rights based on the movies.

 

[rob@rar]

The rumour was that Universal had already secured the theme park rights based on the movies.

I do so hope that’s true. It would be top of my personal Wish List for the park. Still love the movies, including the score which I often listen to. If Universal did a Middle-Earth land as well as they’ve done Potter I don’t think I’d ever leave!

 

[Altonsky]

The rumour was that Universal had already secured the theme park rights based on the movies.

But what’s the point? Honestly I’m not saying it’s not true because it probably is but the movies are going to be 30 years old come 2030.

Unless someone’s planning on rebooting the movies and we just don’t know about it I don’t get it. At least with Star Wars there’s constant reboots and the D+ spinoff series.

This IP is fractured and all over the place.

Maybe they got it cheap, for an IP that’s flatlining I hope they have. It just doesn’t seem very current, especially if the theme park rights are based on the movies. Something which Amazon can’t replicate.

 

[Alicia]

At least with Star Wars there’s constant reboots and the D+ spinoff series.

And yet when they opened a land at Disneyland and Disney World the biggest complaint was it wasn’t based on the films from the 1970s and 80s.

Classics are timeless.

 

[Altonsky]

It’s just funny. One (very popular and current) IP isn’t worth the money to some people because of multiple reasons. Yet this IP is worth the money even though it’s not current, the rights are supposedly based on the films which are 30 years old come 2030 and the author was extremely religious and very conservative.

Probably far more conservative than the other person we were discussing.

I don’t know how that circle can be squared personally but I’m sure some people will try. It just seems hypocritical. He wasn’t a pleasant man.

I’m sure universal will do a great job and I personally like LOTR, I’m old enough to have gone to watch it when it first came out but it’s not ‘current’.

 

[xtpower]

I really think you're overly focused on this 'it's a 30 year old ip' aspect Alton. There's millions upon millions of people who love these old IP's and they'd take their children to a Theme Park that has this very IP and then make those very same children fans too.

Frankly by 2030 the classic IP's (outside of Nintendo) we want in every Universal Park will not be 'current' but people will still love them.

 

[Altonsky]

I mostly agree, some IPs last but having the rights based on movies from 30 years ago seems very specific.

I’m sure it will be popular.

Tbh I’m trying to prove a wider point.

If that IP is still popular, if that author can be separated from his IP because I’m sure to most people on here he’d also be unpalatable I don’t see why the same can’t happen for any other IP especially when the other is far more current/moving forward.

I’ll finally drop it now though, everyone can breathe a sigh of relief.

 

[Chessy]

I really think you're overly focused on this 'it's a 30 year old ip' aspect Alton. There's millions upon millions of people who love these old IP's and they'd take their children to a Theme Park that has this very IP and then make those very same children fans too.

Frankly by 2030 the classic IP's (outside of Nintendo) we want in every Universal Park will not be 'current' but people will still love them.

I mean people still like the Wizard of Oz and that’s 85 years old. It was already 50 years old when I saw it as a child, and it’s inspired things like Wicked. Anyway I guess what I’m trying to say is some IP’s do last for a very long time indeed.

 

[Alicia]

Wait till y'all get a clone of the Waterwold show like Beijing (and every other Universal park has except Orlando,) based on not just a 30-year old film, but a flop! Not even beloved or classic or stand the test of time! Sometimes a good attraction is just a good attraction.

Also, the last LOTR film was only 21 years ago and the last Hobbit film was 10 years ago.

When Universal Studios Florida opened JAWS was 14 years old, and people still want them to bring it back now that that film is nearly 50 years old.

I feel that time is essentially irrelevant to theme parks. As long as the experiences are good.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

Universal Orlando is literally building an entire land based on the classic Monsters….. which Frankenstein debuted in 1931. 94 years prior to the land opening.

 

[bedfordmassive]

Worth bearing in mind that, in the UK at least, both the LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit are very widely read books. This was the case both before and after the films. The Hobbit in particular is a standard early serious book that kids read - also standard issue bedtime reading by parents.

People were desperate for the LOTR films because the stories were already such a cultural force. That remains true independent of the aging films. The books are 70 years old, and will still be widely read in another 70 years after 2-3 more reboots.

My view is that LOTR is evergreen IP, especially in UK. The films were brilliant, but they didn’t create love for Middle Earth from scratch - the popularity won’t fade linearly with age of the films. It’s a part of the cultural landscape alongside Winston Churchill (who hasn’t done anything in years!).

 

[Jake S]

Yet this IP is worth the money even though it’s not current, the rights are supposedly based on the films which are 30 years old come 2030 and the author was extremely religious and very conservative.

Probably far more conservative than the other person we were discussing.

Return of the King and Deathly Hallows came out only eight years apart and Tolkien has been dead for 60 years. What are we talking about here?

 

[xtpower]

Watched or rather listened to a podcast from some Disney podcasters earlier that came out in the wake of the December announcement and man those PortAventura rumours wouldn't die. They spent a good 25minutes going on about a two-pronged approach with UGB capturing the UK market and Universal buying PA for the Spanish market.

Of course there's nothing that says PA isn't still an option in the future, but right now it's dead silent.

The podcast also covered the usual negative things that everyone thinks of when it comes to our country and building stuff - planning permission getting blocked, NIMBY's rearing their ugly heads and special badgers etc etc. Fortunately two of those three never happened, the residents were welcoming and there's no special badgers to haunt us.

 

[rob@rar]

Unless someone’s planning on rebooting the movies and we just don’t know about it I don’t get it. At least with Star Wars there’s constant reboots and the D+ spinoff series.

This IP is fractured and all over the place.

Maybe they got it cheap, for an IP that’s flatlining I hope they have. It just doesn’t seem very current, especially if the theme park rights are based on the movies. Something which Amazon can’t replicate.

On a pedantic point, Star Wars hasn’t been rebooted. All the films and TV shows are extending the original timeline and deepening the storytelling, rather than re-telling the same story.

There’s a new Middle-Earth movie coming at the end of 2024, The Ride of the Rohirrim. Amazon’s Rings of Power series will continue, and after a slow start I think will more clearly link to the storyline of LOTR, especially now that Sauron has been revealed. With the change in rights ownership, there are also rumours that New Line Cinema is considering re-entering Middle-Earth. LOTR continues to have a strong presence in the gaming world, and the new rights owners are looking to build on that.

I think the Tolkien IP has a deep history and is far from dead. For sure it’s no Potterverse, which is why I said Universal would be mad to not build a Wizarding World land if they can obtain the rights. But there are few IPs which are the global juggernaut that JK Rowling has created. Epic Universe’s classic monsters is hardly current! How to Tame your Dragon is cute, but not a compelling global phenomenon. But both those lands and the attractions they offer look awesome.

For me the suitability of an IP is whether it is part of the cultural heritage of the demographic you are targeting, and whether it lends itself to fully immersive, fantastical place-making. I think Middle-Earth passes both those tests with flying colours, especially if the rights are based on the Middle-Earth as brought to our screens by Peter Jackson.

 

[Chessy]

Worth bearing in mind that, in the UK at least, both the LOTR trilogy and The Hobbit are very widely read books. This was the case both before and after the films. The Hobbit in particular is a standard early serious book that kids read - also standard issue bedtime reading by parents.

People were desperate for the LOTR films because the stories were already such a cultural force. That remains true independent of the aging films. The books are 70 years old, and will still be widely read in another 70 years after 2-3 more reboots.

My dad had these books as a kid and when I was very young he would read some to me. I just remember being fascinated by this crazy mythical world.

 

[Altonsky]

Return of the King and Deathly Hallows came out only eight years apart and Tolkien has been dead for 60 years. What are we talking about here?

Fair point. Reading it back it’s a bit of a nonsensical argument haha