Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[Nick]

Similar to how DHS is the adult alternative to MK/Epcot (WS excluded), the 3rd gate could be a slightly more family friendly alternative to the other 2 without becoming explicitly kiddie as MK has of late.

I fail to see how DHS is the adult alternative to Epcot. Future World, while neutered, still has enough to entertain (not to mention more rides than all of DHS) and WS has basically turned into a giant bar. It's PI 2.0 during F&W pretty much.

 

[mahnamahna]

^The only IP you listed there that could carry a whole other park is Lord of the Rings. Godzilla, James Bond, Star Trek...ok I could see those as rides at the Studios. Classic monsters are good, but cant carry a full park considering they cant even carry an attraction at the existing parks. Dr Who is way, wayyy too niche, Looney Tunes clearly arent that easy to secure considering they couldnt get them for Cartoon World. World of Warcraft is, again, way too niche and has a certain connotation associated with it, lets be honest. Smurfs...just no. And Im going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were joking about My Little Pony. Laika...what is the sudden fascination with this? Do most people even know what that is?

And you have to give up on Nintendo...that is more unlikely and preposterous than DC. Im sorry, its just not as marketable or popular as you think it is.

Bring in Lord of the Rings and I would be much less skeptical of a third gate (although Universal would have to face the possibility of said third park cannibalizing the current ones). Other than that, I cant think of anything that would justify a whole other park.

You're clearly too harsh on whats a theme park worthy IP, especially with Nintendo because unlike movies and TV, video games are far from peaking in popularity - if Godzilla and Star Trek aren't too niche for a theme park without any real kid appeal, then Mario and Pokemon are about equal with them)

Classic Monsters are timeless and getting a rebooted cinematical universe. theyre also owned by Uni. Same goes for Scooby (timeless, getting a live action reboot) Universal Creative was seriously considering Smurfs at some point I'm not a Brony in the least, but I recognize its popular and has appeal with little girls. Doctor Who has 50 years+ of history and his popularity has increased significantly thanks to instant Netfliz with teens/young adults.

And I never meant all of those were heavy hitters the 3rd gate would no doubt have 2nd and 3rd tier IPs. LOTR as the mega lifter, with the rest being support. What was niche 10-15 yrs ago (Doctor Who, Nintendo, the WoW game that Universal is making a film about) is becoming more and more mainstream whether you like it or not.

Mario is definitely more iconic/marketable than Star Trek and Godzilla in terms of merch potential and the opportunity to rival Diagon Alley in terms of theming. Kids and females would probably choose the Mushroom Kingdom over Gojira and Starfleet Academy - and like you said, Godzilla and Star Trek could fit easily into USF as single attractions.

I was just trying to point out that Universal doesn't have to wait to pick IPs that just came out in theaters. There's plenty of IPs that have endured and shown longevity like I listed above - they may not all be mega IPs but they certainly have attraction/merch potential.

- - - Updated - - -

I fail to see how DHS is the adult alternative to Epcot. Future World, while neutered, still has enough to entertain (not to mention more rides than all of DHS) and WS has basically turned into a giant bar. It's PI 2.0 during F&W pretty much.

True both of those are pretty much adult centric right now. But Epcot has more all ages attractions, while half of the rides at DHS have a 40" or more height requirement. Only one of the 3 all ages rides is kid-centric - with the other two focusing on an older audience. But I agree that Epcot is pretty adult orientated.

 

[DragonSlayer]

You're clearly too harsh on whats a theme park worthy IP, especially with Nintendo because unlike movies and TV, video games are far from peaking in popularity - if Godzilla and Star Trek aren't too niche for a theme park without any real kid appeal, then Mario and Pokemon are about equal with them)

You really need to accept that this just isn't true. Star Trek and Godzilla have both been around for decades in various forms and have appeal for many generations. They are huge mainstream franchises. However much you clearly wish Nintendo and Pokemon to be in this league, they aren't.

Classic Monsters are timeless and getting a rebooted cinematical universe. theyre also owned by Uni. Same goes for Scooby (timeless, getting a live action reboot) Universal Creative was seriously considering Smurfs at some point I'm not a Brony in the least, but I recognize its popular and has appeal with little girls. Doctor Who has 50 years+ of history and his popularity has increased significantly thanks to instant Netfliz with teens/young adults.

No offence intended, but Smurfs and My Little Pony would be the greatest disasters in theme park history. I really can't believe that's a serious suggestion. Would love to know your source on that "seriously considering". And if we can learn anything from Disney's flat years recently, its that we don't need to start differentiating into areas with appeal for girls and areas with appeal for boys. That's a bad move.

And I never meant all of those were heavy hitters the 3rd gate would no doubt have 2nd and 3rd tier IPs. LOTR as the mega lifter, with the rest being support. What was niche 10-15 yrs ago (Doctor Who, Nintendo, the WoW game that Universal is making a film about) is becoming more and more mainstream whether you like it or not.

There's a difference between not being a heavy hitter and being something that is just of interest to no one. And Doctor Who isn't even mainstream in the UK, never mind elsewhere.

Mario is definitely more iconic/marketable than Star Trek and Godzilla in terms of merch potential and the opportunity to rival Diagon Alley in terms of theming. Kids and females would probably choose the Mushroom Kingdom over Gojira and Starfleet Academy - and like you said, Godzilla and Star Trek could fit easily into USF as single attractions.

I was just trying to point out that Universal doesn't have to wait to pick IPs that just came out in theaters. There's plenty of IPs that have endured and shown longevity like I listed above - they may not all be mega IPs but they certainly have attraction/merch potential.

There are plenty of IPs which have endured and shown longevity which are actually popular. I'm not sure I would count any which have been suggested.

 

[Plastic Person]

I concur that it won't be the IP, but Doctor Who is very much mainstream in the UK; by far one of the highest rating shows we have outside of soaps and sport.

 

[Kevin38]

How about a third park designed with area's for HHN.Since any park on the same lot will have to take area's currently used by HHN.

 

[TylerDurden]

Mahnahmana, Im curious as to whether you actually conduct market research to come up with these ludicrous conclusions about how popular certain IPs are, or if youre just making stuff up.

 

[Brian G.]

The KidZone Replacement thread was locked when talks started going towards My Little Pony.

I really don't want to do the same for this. Please stop throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.

 

[shiekra38]

More Hotels = More options for people to stay on site and more people staying onsite...that's about it

I fail to see how more hotels are somehow proof of a 3rd gate..Uni and IOA are hardly ever at capacity where MK hits capacity on a regular basis...that's a problem

 

[Hockeyman55]

That would be pretty short-sighted of them...who knows what will be popular over a decade from now, and even more importantly how do they know what will stand the test of time or not. IOA's IPs were secured later in the game, they were originally planning on having DC and Looney Tunes.

Im pretty sure they know what they are doing at this point. Besides, how many of the IPs for IOA did they have locked up earlier in the game versus how many were later in the game?

 

[mahnamahna]

Mahnahmana, Im curious as to whether you actually conduct market research to come up with these ludicrous conclusions about how popular certain IPs are, or if youre just making stuff up.

Give me ten reasons EACH why Godzilla and Star Trek would drive attendance more or sell more merch than Mario and I'll buy your ludicrous conclusions.

- - - Updated - - -

The KidZone Replacement thread was locked when talks started going towards My Little Pony.

I really don't want to do the same for this. Please stop throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.

Because talking about a 3rd gate with no concrete IPs yet has to be 100% logical :inquisitive: seriously, Pacific Rim is considered theme park material, but Nintendo and MLP isn't?

Whatever... if LOTR and Star Trek are the only acceptable IPs to talk about for the 3rd gate, so be it.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Give me ten reasons EACH why Godzilla and Star Trek would drive attendance more or sell more merch than Mario and I'll buy your ludicrous conclusions.

- - - Updated - - -



Because talking about a 3rd gate with no concrete IPs yet has to be 100% logical :inquisitive: seriously, Pacific Rim is considered theme park material, but Nintendo and MLP isn't?

Whatever... if LOTR and Star Trek are the only acceptable IPs to talk about for the 3rd gate, so be it.

Please stop being so ridiculous and derailing this thread, I'm sick of it. This is an interesting topic which people want to discuss maturely.

Judging from your profile, you must be at the bottom end of the 13-17 bracket. Maybe come back in a while.

 

[Cole]

Godzilla
1.#1 hit in the box office for many weeks
2.action movie so it fits a ride perfectly
3.iconic character
4.action figure sales
5.easy to market
6.uni owns a part of legendary
7.popular in other parts of the world (driving them along too)
8.could make a japan area around it
9.sequels on the way to make it a franchise
10.giant photo op

Star Trek
1.iconic
2.merch sales deemed profitable
3.already have the rights
4.more movies coming out
5.its timeless and will never truly die (revamps, tv, ect)
6.meet and greets
7.sci fi setting perfect for a ride
8.appeals to the giant Trekkie audience
9.can produce sci fi land around it
10.its Star Trek

Listen I've already explained a billion times why Nintendo is out of the question and MLP is just no. Hope this clarifies everything so we can just move on with our life's :thumbs:

 

[TylerDurden]

Im pretty sure they know what they are doing at this point. Besides, how many of the IPs for IOA did they have locked up earlier in the game versus how many were later in the game?

Well, IOA opened less than ten years after Universal did, and I doubt a third gate would be ready in less than ten years...so thats one thing. But we also know within than <10 year planning period, Simpsons, Looney Tunes, etc. were all thrown against the wall and a DC land was considered a viable option with elaborate sketches and plans drawn up in more developed detail than anything thats out there now (and we know how that went). So I dont know when the final plans for IOA came to fruition exactly, but it cant have been this early in the game based on what we know...at least thats my take on it.

Also I do know that as of the time IOA was built, 5 hotels were being planned. I even remember reading some sort of promotional material about the addition of RPR and how two more hotels would follow it. So the hotel plans got cut back in even less time.


And Cole, thank you for saving me the time^ . This sort of thing shouldnt need an explanation but thank you for at least humoring the notion.

 

[quinnmac000]

The problem with even focusing on IPs is if you base it on films people will wonder why didn't they put it in US and if you focus it on books why wasn't it in Island of Adventures so even if we are debating and speculating IPs, it should be something that doesn't fit the focus of the other two parks in my opinion. Whats the point of adding a park if it doesn't maintain its own unique identity that is different from the other 2 parks.

 

[mahnamahna]

Godzilla
1.#1 hit in the box office for many weeks
2.action movie so it fits a ride perfectly
3.iconic character
4.action figure sales
5.easy to market
6.uni owns a part of legendary
7.popular in other parts of the world (driving them along too)
8.could make a japan area around it
9.sequels on the way to make it a franchise
10.giant photo op

Star Trek
1.iconic
2.merch sales deemed profitable
3.already have the rights
4.more movies coming out
5.its timeless and will never truly die (revamps, tv, ect)
6.meet and greets
7.sci fi setting perfect for a ride
8.appeals to the giant Trekkie audience
9.can produce sci fi land around it
10.its Star Trek

Listen I've already explained a billion times why Nintendo is out of the question and MLP is just no. Hope this clarifies everything so we can just move on with our life's :thumbs:

1. Mario sells as much merch or even more merch than either of those. Unless you can provide info, that both Star Trek and Godzilla sell significantly more merch than Mario, I don't buy that the plumber isn't marketable
2. He's as well known as Mickey Mouse - show 1,000 people a picture of him and most everyone will know who it is or have some general idea who he is
3. Unlike either of those, Mario has potential for theming on par with Diagon Alley. Aside from LOTR and Classic Monsters, Mario is the only franchise that could hold up an area just for it. Can you see a whole area (3 to 5 attractions) for just Godzilla or just Star Trek?
4. Kid appeal - Mario trumps both in relevance with kids/teens. Even parents and grandparents can have fun with Mario Kart or Mario Party
5. Colorful, distinct environment - unlike Godzilla or Star Trek, Mario has distinct locations you can bring to life. It's also colorful which would make the land pop
6. Female appeal - nearly every girl who I mentioned the new Godzilla movie to groaned with disgust I don't know about Star Trek but its fan base is still predominately male. Princess Peach alone gives Mario more female appeal (have a makeover like MK does) Plus, his franchise is more broad than other video games
7. Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Donkey Kong, Toad, Rosalina, Wario and Bowser M&Gs plus character breakfast
8. Attraction potential - Mario is less limited in terms of attractions due to his many spin offs and series. Star Trek is limited to Starfleet Academy and the Enterprise. Godzilla couldn't get more than a ride
9. Four quadrant - Mario is a game franchise that is accessible to anyone between 3 and 100. His games don't focus on one demo. Kids like him, teens and adults have nostalgia for him, while he's more accessible to women than sci-fi tends to be
10. Marketability - he's not niche and could provide support for LOTR, Star Trek, Godzilla, etc. he's a very recognizable character
11. Unique merch potential - so many items they could sell
12. Unique food/beverage potential
13. He's Mario
14. Trekkies honestly lean toward that WoW demo you said was too niche

I never said Godzilla and Star Trek weren't good - just that Mario is a valid IP that could be just as successful as those. I'll admit the rest of Nintendo is niche, but Mario is pretty classic/timeless by now

 

[mahnamahna]

Please stop being so ridiculous and derailing this thread, I'm sick of it. This is an interesting topic which people want to discuss maturely.

Judging from your profile, you must be at the bottom end of the 13-17 bracket. Maybe come back in a while.

Maybe stop being so condescending?

I'm 18... believe me, I'm not trying to. It seems any time I bring anything up people treat me like I'm Forrest Gump.. and if you all hate me, then I'll leave. I love the parks as much as you guys but I guess my opinion is never valid. Not trying to troll.

But adios, I guess...

 

[Brian G.]

No one is saying you have to leave. But when it comes to discussion on speculation, you have to approach it with some degree of reality. Whether or not a Pacific Rim ride or Nintendoland would be an option is something that could merit the discussion.

My Little Pony is not.

 

[Vyrus]

I have to agree, but some of you need to chill on some of your attitudes.

Mario is highly marketable and is absolutely one of the most recognizable characters in the world.
You show someone this, its instantly recognizable.

However you show them this:

You may get 50/50 on who likes it or not. As much of a rabid fan base there is for Star Trek, its still a somewhat smaller market and still does not come anywhere close to Star Wars profitability.

Could Star Trek happen? Absolutely, its an incredible IP with countless of opportunities, but to say Mario and Nintendo is not as well known or profitable without any actual facts to back it up is heresay.

Here are some fact on Nintendo and Mario from Wiki (i knoooooow its not the most accurate, but its close)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

At least 100 million copies
Franchise name Original release date Sales
Mario July 9, 1981 445.208 million
......Super Mario series: 262 million[n 1]
......Mario Kart series: 100.13 million[2]
......Mario Sports series: 35.498 million[n 2]
......Mario Party series: 35.75 million[3]
......Mario RPG series: 12.2 million[n 3]
Super Mario September 13, 1985 262 million[n 1]
Pokémon February 27, 1996 245 million[12]
Wii November 19, 2006 192.76 million[n 4]
Grand Theft Auto October 1997 185 million[14]
The Sims February 4, 2000 175 million[16]
Need for Speed August 31, 1994 150 million[17]
Sonic the Hedgehog June 23, 1991 140 million[n 5]
Tetris June 1985 140 million[21]
Call of Duty October 29, 2003 120 million[citation needed]
Final Fantasy December 18, 1987 110 million[22]
Wii Sports November 19, 2006 109.74 million[n 4]
Mario Kart August 27, 1992 100.13 million[2]
FIFA Christmas 1993 100 million[23]

In the meantime, can't we all just get along and :focus:

ANY of these IPs would be incredible and big draws to a theme park.

 

[Nick]

I have to agree. Nintendo may seem different for what Universal usually does, but to deny the marketability and how recognizable the characters are at this point is a bit out there. I'd say Mario is pretty iconic.

 

[shiekra38]

I have to agree. Nintendo may seem different for what Universal usually does, but to deny the marketability and how recognizable the characters are at this point is a bit out there. I'd say Mario is pretty iconic.

It hits the big four as far as I'm concerned

1) Family Friendly
2) Expansive Environments
3) Nostalgia
4) Merch Potential

Seems like a logical choice