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Universal Studios Florida: What Do We Think About It?

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DrStarlander

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #981
I'm curious about the enthusiasm for Pokemon. It's a huge property no doubt -- I've worked with it as a license and made Pokemon products. But I don't have a clear vision of the world they would build in terms of iconic, broadly-recognizable landmarks or environmental art direction.

For example, even if if you're not a Harry Potter fan, you've seen Hogwarts (on books, games, LEGO sets), or if you're not an Avatar fan (who is?) you've still likely seen the floating rocks. Similarly, Zootopia, Radiator Springs, and Frozen's Arendelle castle and mountain -- are visuals the public is likely to recognize. These are all just examples but the point is...what do people expect to see built in a Pokemon land?

Because when a theme park land is built without recognizable, iconic structural or landscape landmarks or a distinct environmental art direction -- Avenger's Campus I'm looking at you -- it can fall flat, so I have a bit of concern.
 
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OrlandoGuy

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #982
Legacy said:
Universal was actively developing an Iron Legion ride to add to MSHI post acquisition and capitalize on Avengers-fever,
Click to expand...
Another point in favor of axing Marvel…capitalizing on anything that isn’t Universal-owned goes directly against the corporate philosophy behind NBC Symphony. Synergy is all about two-way support…not one. If a movie promotes the UO parks, then great, but if the parks aren’t helping to promote the film business then that’s not true synergy. Nintendo/Pokemon don’t have that problem because of the Illumination deal.
 
Gartooth

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  • #983
DrStarlander said:
I'm curious about the enthusiasm for Pokemon. It's a huge property no doubt -- I've worked with it as a license and made Pokemon products. But I don't have a clear vision of the world they would build in terms of iconic, broadly-recognizable landmarks or environmental art direction.

For example, even if if you're not a Harry Potter fan, you've seen Hogwarts (on books, games, LEGO sets), or if you're not an Avatar fan (who is?) you've still likely seen the floating rocks. Similarly, Zootopia, Radiator Springs, and Frozen's Arendelle castle and mountain -- are visuals the public is likely to recognize. These are all just examples but the point is...what do people expect to see built in a Pokemon land?

Because when a theme park land is built without recognizable, iconic structural or landscape landmarks or a distinct environmental art direction -- Avenger's Campus I'm looking at you -- it can fall flat, so I have a bit of concern.
Click to expand...

The Pokémon franchise never sticks in one place for too long with the Pokémon themselves being really the only recurring franchise element. But the locations in the series and any human characters are constantly changed with each new main series title.

The most iconic location and characters would probably still be those of Kanto from the first generation of Pokémon between the first season of the show and the original games (Red, Blue, and Yellow). So you could have locations like Palette Town with Professor Oak's Lab and Viridian City. Have some landmarks such as a Pokémon Center, a Pokémon Gym, maybe a secret Team Rocket base, and so forth.

That said, The Pokémon Company seems to be particular about exploring new pockets of the "Pokémon world" in expanded media rather than relying on familiar territory, for better or worse. Like how rather than doing a "traditional" Pokémon adaptation based on the most iconic franchise elements for their big Hollywood movie they instead made an adaptation of Detective Pikachu.
 
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DrStarlander

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #984
Gartooth said:
The Pokémon franchise never sticks in one place for too long with the Pokémon themselves being really the only recurring franchise element. But the locations in the series and any human characters are constantly changed with each new main series title.

The most iconic location and characters would probably still be those of Kanto from the first generation of Pokémon between the first season of the show and the original games (Red, Blue, and Yellow). So you could have locations like Palette Town with Professor Oak's Lab and Viridian City. Have some landmarks such as a Pokémon Center, a Pokémon Gym, maybe a secret Team Rocket base, and so forth.

That said, The Pokémon Company seems to be particular about exploring new pockets of the "Pokémon world" in expanded media rather than relying on familiar territory, for better or worse. Like how rather than doing a "traditional" Pokémon adaptation based on the most iconic franchise elements for their big Hollywood movie they instead made an adaptation of Detective Pikachu.
Click to expand...
I appreciate this info, and the uncertainty or nuance you suggest is indeed my point. A lack of iconic building, a signature rock formation or mountain, an epic tree, waterfall...anything "the public" may have inadvertently seen while strolling through a Walmart, Target or Barnes & Noble...could be the land's fundamental weakness...including undermining visual marketability (print, TV campaigns).
 
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GA-MBIT

GA-MBIT

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #985
DrStarlander said:
I'm curious about the enthusiasm for Pokemon. It's a huge property no doubt -- I've worked with it as a license and made Pokemon products. But I don't have a clear vision of the world they would build in terms of iconic, broadly-recognizable landmarks or environmental art direction.

For example, even if if you're not a Harry Potter fan, you've seen Hogwarts (on books, games, LEGO sets), or if you're not an Avatar fan (who is?) you've still likely seen the floating rocks. Similarly, Zootopia, Radiator Springs, and Frozen's Arendelle castle and mountain -- are visuals the public is likely to recognize. These are all just examples but the point is...what do people expect to see built in a Pokemon land?

Because when a theme park land is built without recognizable, iconic structural or landscape landmarks or a distinct environmental art direction -- Avenger's Campus I'm looking at you -- it can fall flat, so I have a bit of concern.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think Pokemon are the main thing. Even a relatively generic, vaguely Japan-inspired futuristic city with some Pokemon hanging out in bushes and trees, appearing in windows, walking around as atmosphere entertainment, etc would do a lot to sell that this is a Pokemon Land, and give the land a lot of the kinetic energy that Avengers Campus and SWGE get knocked a lot for not having. Add in a Pokemon Center quick service with the white walls and red roof, a fancy looking Pokemon Lab with an "animal" show hosted by a professor, and a big imposing Gym with the Poke-Ball symbol out front where you can battle and that's already most of the offerings in 90% of the Pokemon towns and cities for the past 30 years.

I think another killer aspect of the IP was brought up by Jenny Nicholson in a Patreon video a little while back. Harry Potter is a huge merch seller because the franchise itself is built around consumerism and buying things. There are a bunch of iconic scenes where the fantastical element is simply being a little kid with a huge bank account able to buy a bunch of candies and cool toys and school supplies. So the merch in the theme park is a big element of the land. The Avengers don't really go shopping for anything in the MCU; Luke Skywalker doesn't stop in a bodega on Tatooine, if anyone buys anything in those films it's the rich Empire-adjacent elite, who are framed very negatively; Avatar definitely doesn't lend itself well to the fantasy of consumerism. It's a reason why those lands can feel a little bit strange and lopsided in their offerings, like highly themed shopping malls even if that doesn't really fit the IP. But yknow what franchise is perfect for themed merchandise?

They haven't used the tagline in a bit, but I believe the motto of "Gotta Catch 'Em All" has really stuck with people. Everyone has a different favorite Pokemon, and people love collecting these guys. Even outside of the park specific merch, people go insane for the trading cards, toys and plushies, all kinds of apparel, themed food, etc. Buying a Poke-Ball or Pokedex to use around the land a la Wands in WWoHP is such a perfect fit. Far more than the Infinity Stones at AC or Droids at SWGE imo.
 
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DarkMetroid567

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #986
GA-MBIT said:
They haven't used the tagline in a bit, but I believe the motto of "Gotta Catch 'Em All" has really stuck with people. Everyone has a different favorite Pokemon, and people love collecting these guys. Even outside of the park specific merch, people go insane for the trading cards, toys and plushies, all kinds of apparel, themed food, etc. Buying a Poke-Ball or Pokedex to use around the land a la Wands in WWoHP is such a perfect fit. Far more than the Infinity Stones at AC or Droids at SWGE imo.
Click to expand...
The interesting part here is that Pokemon is, for the reasons you mention, already the consumerist franchise. You can already collect them all on your phone, or buy any plush imaginable. How do you create a unique experience here without just making Pokemon Go again?

And if you manage to succeed — how do you manage the crowds? Does Pokemon land get littered with the long lines you get for the games at SNW? That would stink.
 
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TheUniC6

TheUniC6

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  • #987
Gartooth said:
The Pokémon franchise never sticks in one place for too long with the Pokémon themselves being really the only recurring franchise element. But the locations in the series and any human characters are constantly changed with each new main series title.

The most iconic location and characters would probably still be those of Kanto from the first generation of Pokémon between the first season of the show and the original games (Red, Blue, and Yellow). So you could have locations like Palette Town with Professor Oak's Lab and Viridian City. Have some landmarks such as a Pokémon Center, a Pokémon Gym, maybe a secret Team Rocket base, and so forth.

That said, The Pokémon Company seems to be particular about exploring new pockets of the "Pokémon world" in expanded media rather than relying on familiar territory, for better or worse. Like how rather than doing a "traditional" Pokémon adaptation based on the most iconic franchise elements for their big Hollywood movie they instead made an adaptation of Detective Pikachu.
Click to expand...
For the rides, they can design the media so it can easily be updated to reflect what is current with the Pokemon franchise.
 
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fryoj

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #988
Freak said:
The only thing I would have to counter your statement is that the Simpsons ride system is shot. Like it’s old. Would they really want to invest the extra $$$ into a ride that kinda sucks? But I guess if the food and beverage income is that great, then I guess they’ll throw some money into keeping Simpsons around a little longer.

As apathetic as I am about Simpsons coming to Disney theme parks, I’m kinda rooting for it to close at Universal. The ride sucks, and the food has gone downhill….except for the donut but even then it’s not “great” to begin with, but I still like it! I do think Disney will knock it out if the park with Springfield food if they bring it to their parks.
Click to expand...
Depending on how long they are planning on keeping it, I could see them closing the ride and keeping the rest open. I don't know that the ride is essential to that particular area.


OrlandoGuy said:
I think you missed this:




The Marvel thing has always been interesting. The online fans get so caught up in the horserace between Disney and Universal but I’d consider things from Universal’s perspective in a vacuum. Currently the properties they license are (I believe):

1.) Harry Potter - obviously a huge draw in every sense of the word; hallmark in their marketing, huge incremental revenue opportunities, etc.

2.) The Simpsons - as discussed, despite not being a landmark attraction it likely moves a good amount of merch and (especially) F&B. Licensing costs (and I’d imagine part of the merch) goes to Disney so on the cutting board.

3.) Transformers - one singular attraction but lots of toy opportunities that (I believe) Universal pockets all the profit from.

4.) Toon Lagoon - yeah, this one’s gone yesterday if there was a quick/easy substitution given the infrastructure.

5.) Seuss - important to the fabric of IOA in that it’s their singular kids’ area and serves as a gateway to Grinchmas (THE reason for UO’s lucrative holiday push each year). Again, merch sales and incremental Grinch revenue pocketed 100% by Universal.

6.) Men in Black - see Toon Lagoon

7.) Nintendo - looking to be a huge merch mover, but has been in the portfolio for 10 years now and is underutilized (for now…acknowledging more is coming).


Compare all of those to Marvel. Marvel is a stronger brand than all but Potter or Nintendo but lacks the F&B potential of Simpsons or the simplicity of stuff like MIB/Toon Lagoon. And while it assuredly moves merch, it’s not 100% pocketed by Universal.

Nintendo, on the other hand, has been licensed for 10 years and yielded just 3 unique attractions, 0 of which are in Orlando yet. It’s a contract struck up post-Potter and was surely more savvy in the way it split revenues for merch/food…yet is so far underutilized in the parks.

If I’m Universal, I’m not concerned about Marvel because of Disney, I’m concerned about Marvel because it uses prime real estate to sell things they can’t fully capitalize on while also representing an opportunity cost to extrapolate more out of Nintendo/other potential licenses. Sure, it may be a favorable contract to Universal, but when you’ve got a whole portfolio of IP like Pokémon just begging to be used (and fully profited off of), I could see why Marvel would be seen as something to strike.

I don’t believe Marvel is going anywhere…especially given all of the other areas of need. But I don’t think it would be THE most absurd thing Universal could do.
Click to expand...

Pokemon has the same problems that most of the IP's you discount have. It's not owned by Universal. They don't have complete control and would have to pay royalties. Pokemon would, I assume, move merch, but I can't see it move food/bev like some of the others.
 
OrlandoGuy

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #989
fryoj said:
Pokemon has the same problems that most of the IP's you discount have. It's not owned by Universal. They don't have complete control and would have to pay royalties. Pokemon would, I assume, move merch, but I can't see it move food/bev like some of the others.
Click to expand...
Discounting the assumption that a contract made by a Universal with post-Potter leverage is a lot more favorable to them than one made on the brink of bankruptcy, the point wasn’t that Pokémon is free, it’s that its royalties don’t go to a direct competitor. Like I mentioned above, Nintendo also has the benefit of being in collaboration with the movie studio. Not comparable to Marvel at all.
 
Rhian

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  • Jan 5, 2025
  • #990
As much as I don't like to write this, Hulk going away wouldn't be the worst thing. After the launch and lagoon portion, the rest of the ride is still fun but falls flat, especially when compared to VelociCoaster and Hagrid's in the same park; the other two coasters are an amazing ride from beginning to end. The real "tragedy" of losing MSHI would be losing Spider-Man. Universal would have to make one hell of a dark ride to replace it, either in the new land or whenever they get to Lost Continent/Toon Lagoon. I think it would be a huge mistake taking SM out without filling that gap first or very quickly after closure. Storm Force and Dr Doom's doesn't seem to be on anyone's radar here as something to truly miss were it removed (and because of that I understand the appeal of making better use of that space when talking about a replacement).

But this is about USF so…

DrStarlander said:
I appreciate this info, and the uncertainty or nuance you suggest is indeed my point. A lack of iconic building, a signature rock formation or mountain, an epic tree, waterfall...anything "the public" may have inadvertently seen while strolling through a Walmart, Target or Barnes & Noble...could be the land's fundamental weakness...including undermining visual marketability (print, TV campaigns).
Click to expand...
As Garooth and GA-MBIT pointed out, fans of Pokemon (hi!) tend to focus on the actual Pokémon, not any single location. Having the land be yet another region specific to the theme park that would fit alongside Kanto, Johto, et al. isn't a problem at all. In fact, the world of Pokémon is described pretty much like our planet but filled with Pokémon. What you perceive as a weakness because there isn't a unique place like Hogwarts or Bowser's Castle doesn't count against Pokémon the same way.

What people are most likely wanting to see—and definitely what parents are most familiar with—is Pikachu (maybe Charizard), and of course most of the starter Pokémon; visual marketing will not be a problem. There are so many we'll never see all of them but I hope over the years several are swapped out either in the ride and/or in the land over the years so we do see different ones. I've mentioned it before but this would also allow the AAs to be taken out for maintenance and not detract from the show quality because a different Pokémon can take its place.

In terms of physical places most towns in the games and anime have:
  • Poké Mart (merchandise opportunies)
  • Pokémon Center (think JP's dinosaur hatching kind of thing, rest area)
  • Pokémon Gym (could be a show with different battles and Pokémon seasonally)
Even the buildings have a general feel but doesn't stick to a particular style meaning how it shows up in the park can have its own style. The Pokémon Center in the games for example (taken from Bulbapedia):

pokemoncenters.png

As long as we also have a Nurse Joy, an Officer Jenny, and a Pokémon Professor (meet-and-greet with different ones like we do with Transformers) along with at least one solid dark ride, a small coaster and/or a flat ride, it'll be great.

This is all to say that a land by itself which isn't really from any one game or episode/series isn't as important as the Pokémon we'd find there because (personally speaking) I'm only there for the Pokémon.

It might be that Universal and Nintendo are waiting to see how the Pokémon ride does in Japan both in guest satisfaction and popularity to gauge what gets built elsewhere. Do I think that IP deserves more than a single ride? For sure. But I've also seen how little effort Game Freak puts in their main games at times that leaves me scratching my head so who knows what we'll get.

If they do go ahead with a Pokémon land, I hope it's built from scratch and not retrofitted into Simpson's (or whatever land they use) existing infrastructure.

DarkMetroid567 said:
How do you create a unique experience here without just making Pokemon Go again?
Click to expand...
Being in a fully realized land surrounded by Pokémon AAs is the unique experience! Yes, I'm slightly impatient about this and waiting/hoping this comes to Orlando in some form sooner than later.

fryoj said:
It's not owned by Universal. They don't have complete control and would have to pay royalties. Pokemon would, I assume, move merch, but I can't see it move food/bev like some of the others.
Click to expand...
That's another thing too: Pokémon is owned by three different companies (Nintendo, Game Freak, and Creatures) and that could complicate development agreements/royalties.
 
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Sneakman

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  • #991
i also wonder if HHN queue space and all that stuff plays a part in the potential future of Simpsons, given We are losing RRR for queue and house space, and the possibility of supercharged for that too, if that closes.
 
TheUniC6

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  • #992
Sneakman said:
i also wonder if HHN queue space and all that stuff plays a part in the potential future of Simpsons, given We are losing RRR for queue and house space, and the possibility of supercharged for that too, if that closes.
Click to expand...
I think a work around for HHN houses in the future if those spaces are taken up by park expansion would be to try and design the attractions in a way where they can incorporate some sort of flex space in them.

Basically was going to happen with VCMB albeit on a larger scale with actual substantial attractions instead of a moving walkway.
 
UniversalRBLX

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  • #993
TheUniC6 said:
I think a work around for HHN houses in the future if those spaces are taken up by park expansion would be to try and design the attractions in a way where they can incorporate some sort of flex space in them.

Basically was going to happen with VCMB albeit on a larger scale with actual substantial attractions instead of a moving walkway.
Click to expand...
Universal has a long history of designing HHN around theme park developments, they'll be fine. They have the space to add 2 more new tents adjacent to the new tents from last year and other BoH areas that are prime real estate for tents.
 
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HHN Maddux

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  • #995
HHN Maddux said:
Click to expand...

Relocation of bakery or an additional storefront tied to more specific Universal/Reto merch?
 
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belloq87

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  • #996
Just a friendly reminder that this is not a thread for posting general updates about the park (unless you can tie it to some larger conversation about the direction of the park). That's what got the last thread on this subject locked!
 
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HHN Maddux

HHN Maddux

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  • #997
belloq87 said:
Just a friendly reminder that this is not a thread for posting general updates about the park (unless you can tie it to some larger conversation about the direction of the park). That's what got the last thread on this subject locked!
Click to expand...
Didn't know where else I could post this, but that's my bad.
 
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belloq87

belloq87

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  • #998
HHN Maddux said:
Didn't know where else I could post this, but that's my bad.
Click to expand...
It's okay! I'm just being as proactive as I can to keep this thread open.
 
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fryoj

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  • #999
HHN Maddux said:
Didn't know where else I could post this, but that's my bad.
Click to expand...
this would be my guess.
 
Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2025
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TheCodeMan95

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Clive said:
This is what I’m saying. Lots of things can happen. I don’t think Marvel’s going anywhere because it’s a huge boon for Universal, and the attractions remain extremely popular. Not sure if Disney can really leverage The Simpsons the same way - and if they can’t, why not just let Universal continue to cut checks, especially if they can get a quid pro quo concession somewhere?
Click to expand...
This is kinda what I was getting at when I said I think there's a possibility they come to a deal to extend the Simpsons rights.

Disney is pretty tied up for at least the next 5 years, and I don't think they'd fast track anything for The Simpsons in front of what has already been announced.

Anything is possible, so I could totally see them extending the rights to 2030/2031 to buy a bit more time. (Hopefully that would at least come with some kind of refresh/refurb for the ride)
 
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