Volcano Bay Construction & Preview Discussion

[epcyclopedia]

Come on, it's Christmas!

A day traditionally celebrated with drunk antics and debauchery (if you consider the length of time the holiday has existed compared to the relatively short period a traditional American Christmas has existed in the 20th century.)

I'm just putting the Saturn back in Saturnalia. (Which per tradition the slaves can insult their masters without fear of retribution.)

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Everyone has their own reference on what to call something like what Universal Creative is doing for Volcano Bay. As said brilliantly by @fryoj to that it's like the footer and footers debate that many people have had for years. Personally, I am just glad to see UC wanting to make sure that for the most part (baring in mind you can't hide EVERYTHING from the guest) is a highly detailed and intricately themed environment that has multiple similar (yet different) aesthetics all around you.

Now, if we can get back onto the topic of construction with these; that may be a good thing..

from Bioreconstruct.

 

[WAJAS]

The whole premise of the argument is that we're all fans staring in awe at the big wonders of the parks on equal footing as outsiders.

It's not true. My definition is the one I've seen Marty Skylar and Tony Baxter chastise people over and as taught to me originally over a decade ago by Eddie Sotto as a mentor.

Our depth of knowledge and experience is not the same, our opinions do not hold equal footing.

Eddie Sotto, the guy who fixed Tomorrowland as a failed concept. One of my many personal idols.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Wonder why they chose to have the exposed outer tubes with support spines?

It only struck me when they chose to have the slides be two-tone, but it begs the question why they don't hide the functional bits of the tubes at least with a slick exterior.

 

[Andysol]

The whole premise of the argument is that we're all fans staring in awe at the big wonders of the parks on equal footing as outsiders.

It's not true. My definition is the one I've seen Marty Skylar and Tony Baxter chastise people over and as taught to me originally over a decade ago by Eddie Sotto as a mentor.

Our depth of knowledge and experience is not the same, our opinions do not hold equal footing.

The correct terminology is "equal footers" :dance:

 

[Disneyhead]

The whole premise of the argument is that we're all fans staring in awe at the big wonders of the parks on equal footing as outsiders.

It's not true. My definition is the one I've seen Marty Skylar and Tony Baxter chastise people over and as taught to me originally over a decade ago by Eddie Sotto as a mentor.

Our depth of knowledge and experience is not the same, our opinions do not hold equal footing.

You have to remember, that that's just Disney's approach to themed entertainment. Themed entertainment existed before Disneyland. Neither Walt Disney or his Imagineers invented it. It's just how they did/do it. With Disney, theme starts with a story with a moral. Which makes sense considering he had his animators/storytellers design the park.

Outside of the Disney bubble theme is almost always based on a concept, not a story. Such as "Hollywood", "Polynesia", "Holidays", "Dinosaurs", "Gators". And if the concept is a place, picking a certain time period such as "1930s Hollywood" is necessary to sell the theme. But a story about some fictional character doing some fictional thing to convey a idea like human ingenuity isn't necassary to sell a theme.

Time and place and story are not necessary for theme parks like Dinosaur World and Gatorland. And yet there is still clearly an over arching theme.

Disney peeps forget that they are not the end all be all of the themed entertainment industry. Applying the definition of "theme" from the literary world to theme parks makes about as much sense as applying the definition of "theme" from the music world to theme parks.

Wonder why they chose to have the exposed outer tubes with support spines?

It only struck me when they chose to have the slides be two-tone, but it begs the question why they don't hide the functional bits of the tubes at least with a slick exterior.

Because they want it to look like a hella fun water theme park. The same reason Hulk is big and bold. Which Disney peeps don't "get" either. They can't get past the visible coaster=6 Flags mentality. Universal doesn't try to hide the fact it's a theme park. They want coasters visible from the interstate (not so much the other way around though). It is a design philosophy that Disney fans will never understand, and they REALLY don't like it. But folks like myself do get it. I have been playing the "who will be first to spot the coaster" game since I was 10 in '73.

Every park has immersion breaks. If Big Thunder didn't have immersion breaks, it would just be a steam train. Universal, Busch (SW ENT.), and Herschend make their immersion breaks big and bold to ramp up excitement. And there are some excellent theme parks out there from those three park operators. It's a shame that Disney peeps are so caught up in their passion, that they truly have a really hard time enjoying non-Disney parks because of their preconceived notions of the definition of a "Theme Park". They really believe that if it's not done the Disney way, it's literally done "wrong". They remind me of when I used to hang out with Deadheads. Deadheads would only listen to the Grateful Dead, and in their opinion ALL other bands did it wrong. While I love the Grateful Dead, I would never say that Led Zeppelin did it wrong because they didn't do it like The Dead.

 

[UK-Trigg]

The whole premise of the argument is that we're all fans staring in awe at the big wonders of the parks on equal footing as outsiders.

It's not true. My definition is the one I've seen Marty Skylar and Tony Baxter chastise people over and as taught to me originally over a decade ago by Eddie Sotto as a mentor.

Our depth of knowledge and experience is not the same, our opinions do not hold equal footing.

You are correct sir, everyone else is not full of themselves.

oh, and for the record, it's Marty Sklar. Merry Christmas

 

[Disneyhead]

You are correct sir, everyone else is not full of themselves.

oh, and for the record, it's Marty Sklar. Merry Christmas

Well, that's one thing I'm not. I'm full of something else entirely.

I'll just leave this here. :bolt:

 

[epcyclopedia]

I wouldn't call Gatorland or Dinosaur world themed because they don't have deeper messages or ideas to convey.

It's the difference between say Jurassic Park as a themed area and Dinosaur World. One has deeper philosophical underpinnings and statements on mankind while the other is just "oh look, dinosaurs."

So I stick to the literary basis of theme, because that's where it seems to have first evolved as an analytical tool and functional concept. For analysis theater is nearly always seen in terms of a subgroup of literature (and plays studied as text rather than live performance) and because of the overlap I see theme parks as an extension of theater (shows, scripts, casts, audience, sets, etc...)

Using Pandora/Avatar as a device to convey the conservation message of AK is a wonky fit but within reason for the theme of the park.

What Volcano Bay is trying to convey overall is very much up in the air.

The commercials seem to say something about "water is life." No?

 

[Disneyhead]

I wouldn't call Gatorland or Dinosaur world themed because they don't have deeper messages or ideas to convey.

It's the difference between say Jurassic Park as a themed area and Dinosaur World. One has deeper philosophical underpinnings and statements on mankind while the other is just "oh look, dinosaurs."

So I stick to the literary basis of theme, because that's where it seems to have first evolved as an analytical tool and functional concept. For analysis theater is nearly always seen in terms of a subgroup of literature (and plays studied as text rather than live performance) and because of the overlap I see theme parks as an extension of theater (shows, scripts, casts, audience, sets, etc...)

Using Pandora/Avatar as a device to convey the conservation message of AK is a wonky fit but within reason for the theme of the park.

What Volcano Bay is trying to convey overall is very much up in the air.

The commercials seem to say something about "water is life." No?

What you are talking about specifically is "philosophical theme". And yes, Volcano Bay will not only have a philosophical theme, but a backstory that reinforces it.

But let's go back to the word "theme". A theme is simply an overarching idea that unifies the elements. It can be something as simple as "Dinosaurs", "Gators", and "Wild West Town". Or something deeper like "Conservation", "Ingenuity", and "Creativity".

An example of a very simple theme.

"The theme of this year's homecoming dance is a '50s Sock Hop!"

So they decorate the place up like a '50s high school gym dance. You would say "That not a theme, that's setting". I would say, "Yes, that is". But you are also expected to show up dressed like the '50s (puddle skirts, letterman jackets, etc.). You would say that's costuming. Yes, but now you have set design and costuming working together to develop a....."????". Then the DJ throws on a CD of some '50s music. So we have set design, costuming, and sound design all working together to reinforce the "????". But set design is blowing it's cork and rushes over and throws the DJs CD player in the trash and hands him a '50s record player and some 45s. Now we are talking the level of execution.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Which is why I stick to literary rules - where theme is defined as a statement (aka: a full grammatically correct sentence) and never just a word or thing or concept.

I suppose both can be a theme, but one has a lot more merit than the other.

It's like art (for purposes of this discussion, museum art pieces.)

Anything you paint on canvas can be "art." But we all know there's a big difference between professional artworks and random paint on canvas.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And about the tubes - I really meant the spines on their outer surface and not the whole tube.

They're not aesthetically pleasing and would be very simple to cover or blend into the form. Why are they visible?

 

[Disneyhead]

And about the tubes - I really meant the spines on their outer surface and not the whole tube.

They're not aesthetically pleasing and would be very simple to cover or blend into the form. Why are they visible?

Because that is how ProSlide builds slides. To cover them would require covering the whole tube.

The difference between simple theme and a complex theme, in a theme park setting, is the intellectual depth conveyed.

A simple theme usually isn't as fulfilling as an experience, and doesn't resonate on an emotional level. That is why anti-intellectual moves like shoving Frozen into Norway is so jarring to some. It has nothing to do with the theme of World Showcase.

 

[darkridelover]

And about the tubes - I really meant the spines on their outer surface and not the whole tube.

They're not aesthetically pleasing and would be very simple to cover or blend into the form. Why are they visible?

Maybe they should add theming to them.

 

[craigt]

Just saw a new Vacation Like you Mean It ad here in the UK. Same shots of Hulk but with the new trains, Kong was featured and it had snippets of Volcano Bay concept art and ended with the "Our Third Park Rises Summer 2016" image!

I saw it too just a few hours ago, though it definitely said 'Water Theme Park' at the end.

I only noticed because of what I'd read on here, so I was on the lookout for it.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Maybe they should add theming to them.

It'd be less obvious if they had consistent coloration. But they don't so it stands out even more... and it's uggo.

 

[UniversalCityFL]

Disneyhead, thank you for articulating *exactly* what I didn't have the patience to.

 

[gator]

What is your problem man?!!!! I said I don't agree with you. My opinion is no less valid than yours.

Actually, it is.

We're not equals.

You started an interesting argument @epcyclopedia but I really wish you didn't ruin it with such distasteful arrogance. I have respect for all the industry knowledge, random facts and opinions that you regularly post, and these forums would be lame without the great discussions that come from differing opinions. That being said, I really hope that the pompous won't be a recurring theme for you here.

I know this post isn't on topic, but I am so disgusted that I had to come out of the shadows to give my opinion on this exchange.

 

[WAJAS]

And we are...

 

[Knothead]

And we are...

Moving on*?





*by "Moving on" we actually mean being demolished and transformed into a not so fast or furious bus ride highliting the virtues of driving dangerously and damaging manifolds. Fun.