Possibility of Penny Pinching at UOR?

[Andysol]

Yes, Volcano Bay. Significantly under projections.

That’s so surprising considering it was at capacity. Clearly, they lowered capacity.

So how does that get remedied?


Complete side-note after hearing the podcast: @Alicia you are a total natural. You’re so damned good at this.
Bad jokes, but Great moderation also there @Joe

 

[tankart150]

Nope. The one that has been operating at reduced capacity since it opened, oddly enough, under performed. Weird.

I knew Volcano Bay was going to be a problem.

 

[Mad Dog]

That’s so surprising considering it was at capacity. Clearly, they lowered capacity.

So how does that get remedied?


Complete side-note after hearing the podcast: @Alicia you are a total natural. You’re so damned good at this.
Bad jokes, but Great moderation also there @Joe

They need the expansion, more high volume slides mostly. and get rid of Tapu Tapu....

 

[Alicia]

Complete side-note after hearing the podcast: @Alicia you are a total natural. You’re so damned good at this.
Bad jokes, but Great moderation also there @Joe

Thanks! Means a lot to me to hear that. A year ago I was terrified of speaking in front of others, but after working to face my fears and get out there more, I actually really enjoy it. Especially chatting with someone as cool as @Joe!

 

[AlexanderMBush]

Thanks! Means a lot to me to hear that. A year ago I was terrified of speaking in front of others, but after working to face my fears and get out there more, I actually really enjoy it. Especially chatting with someone as cool as @Joe!

It was crazy to get you on when I did then for TPT then, huh. :tease:

But in all seriousness,

That’s so surprising considering it was at capacity. Clearly, they lowered capacity.

So how does that get remedied?

I would assume an expansion ASAP would be needed. But I don't think they are going to easily remove Tapu Tapu.

I am curious to see if they may look to having a middle-ground, of that as an option but not being required for everyone's enjoyment of Volcano Bay. Just a thought, but that's what I would wonder.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

Here's the VB tl;dr

1) Park opened at reduced capacity with the plan of raising it over the summer.
2) Technical issues with slides prevented raising of capacity of park
3) ProSlide stated hourly capacities (when running correctly) were off, hence the long waits the first few months
4) TapuTapu puts more guests into walkways, beaches, etc. As such capacity in the park cannot be increased

So once VB hits the planned capacity it will start hitting its projections.

Here is my issue with this...

If your parks that are already established have to be punished, budgets cut, shows and and attractions time reduce just to bring the new project together, well I believe you have already failed.

Reducing one section, universal Orlando north, to then work on another section, universal Orlando south, of a business is not an expansion at all. It’s a redirection of funds. It’s just a trade off.

Sorry that just means we will get a stagnant north property so the south will come to fruition. Just terrible, cheap, and not planned properly.

I really, truly hope this is not the case but am beginning to have fears.

This is a straw man. There are no reduced attraction times, shows times aren't being removed, and there's no stagnation. The only thing that changed is Sinbad is closing with no immediate replacement.

Bad jokes, but Great moderation also there @Joe

I try.

Especially chatting with someone as cool as @Joe!

Flattery get you everywhere Alicia. lol

 

[Alicia]

It was crazy to get you on when I did then for TPT then, huh. :tease:

Yup. One of my first podcast appearances actually.

I would assume an expansion ASAP would be needed. But I don't think they are going to easily remove Tapu Tapu.

I am curious to see if they may look to having a middle-ground, of that as an option but not being required for everyone's enjoyment of Volcano Bay. Just a thought, but that's what I would wonder.

That’s so surprising considering it was at capacity. Clearly, they lowered capacity.

So how does that get remedied?

They need the expansion, more high volume slides mostly. and get rid of Tapu Tapu....

Correct.

I bet there were several factors in VB not hitting internal projections. Here are some of my guesses, in no particular order:

TapuTapu doesn't account for how guests normally wait in line. Not seeing a line wrapping down stairs can cause more people to tap in than would actually get in line in the first place, leaving popular rides always at a ridiculously long wait. If you actually had to stand in that line, you'd probably skip it, which would shorten wait times across the board.

ProSlide's theoretical guests per hour estimates were off for some of the newer slides. I bet a big part of how Universal would go about estimating maximum park capacity would have a lot to do with how many people the slides could handle per hour. If those numbers are off, (especially if more than one attraction's numbers are off,) the whole park will hold less people than expected.

Park Size. Aquatica has two wave pools. Typhoon Lagoon has a giant one. This park, like Wet 'n Wild, could probably use some larger pools to help add capacity without it feeling too crowded, not that that's actually possible. (At least there's actually a couple play areas of decent size.)

And yes, it needs that expansion. I'd argue that the park still has too many thrill rides, and could use more family-friendly attractions. Personally, I don't like body slides of any sort, and trap-door slides are even more terrifying. Even two of the family raft slides look pretty intense. That leaves the racers and the tube slide towers. Another water coaster or another slide tower for families would be a great addition, but would it still be enough?

Last, but not least, perhaps they were just dreaming too big? Maybe, just maybe, they were hoping for too much out of this little parcel of land sandwiched between two roads. They should've been expecting whatever was the capacity of Wet 'n Wild, but it sounds like they had convinced themselves this was like a whole new theme park. Just cause you call it your third gate, doesn't mean it could actually see as many visitors as USF or IOA. Maybe if they threw in a show or two, or other forms of entertainment, I'd buy the "water theme park" concept, but at the end of the day, it's a water park.

Long story short, I bet the theoretical guests per hour being wrong on some of the new slides had a lot to do with it, and it's something that doesn't get brought up a lot on the forum. No offense to ProSlide, they do amazing work, but it's not so hard for me to fathom that a company that had to extend the width of a new slide because it seems like they didn't do the math right and the rafts were gonna fly off, or had to adjust the weight limit of a body slide 3 times already, among other various raft issues for other slides - may have been a little off on their guest per hour estimates. But, again, that's just my interpretation.

EDIT: Or just read @Joe's TLDR above my post, pretty much covers it perfectly lol.

Here's the VB tl;dr

1) Park opened at reduced capacity with the plan of raising it over the summer.
2) Technical issues with slides prevented raising of capacity of park
3) ProSlide stated hourly capacities (when running correctly) were off, hence the long waits the first few months
4) TapuTapu puts more guests into walkways, beaches, etc. As such capacity in the park cannot be increased

So once VB hits the planned capacity it will start hitting its projections.

 

[Andysol]

They need the expansion, more high volume slides mostly. and get rid of Tapu Tapu....

I bet they wish they had a do-over in a few of these slides. Example: having 2 or 3 Krakatau coasters side by side.

ProSlide's theoretical guests per hour estimates were off for some of the newer slides.

And yes, it needs that expansion. I'd argue that the park still has too many thrill rides, and could use more family-friendly attractions. Personally, I don't like body slides of any sort, and trap-door slides are even more terrifying. Even two of the family raft slides look pretty intense. That leaves the racers and the tube slide towers. Another water coaster or another slide tower for families would be a great addition, but would it still be enough?

Last, but not least, perhaps they were just dreaming too big? Maybe, just maybe, they were hoping for too much out of this little parcel of land sandwiched between two roads. They should've been expecting whatever was the capacity of Wet 'n Wild, but it sounds like they had convinced themselves this was like a whole new theme park. Just cause you call it your third gate, doesn't mean it could actually see as many visitors as USF or IOA. Maybe if they threw in a show or two, or other forms of entertainment, I'd buy the "water theme park" concept, but at the end of the day, it's a water park.

To address these points:

1) If that’s the case, and they don’t hit the first per hour rate, then everything else is a moot point and this is the crux of it. If you had rides for 20,000 and it only puts out 12,000- then you have to drop projections. Everything else is trivial compared to this.

2) There arent many body slides at VB- just the volcano and oh ya/no. I would think a 6-8 body slide tower would do wonders. TL, for example, has 3 with no height requirement that are quite enjoyable.

3) The only thing in your list I strongly disagree with. Demand is not the reason they aren’t hitting projections. At all. When you’re turning people away, your park is either too popular or doesn’t have enough capacity. In VBs instance, I believe it’s both. The park is miles better than TL or BB. Anyone who thinks differently is biased beyond belief. TL has the best wave pool and BB has the best lazy river. You can make arguments for BBs family raft, which is cool, the ski lift is unique, etc. But as a whole? No contest. I think UOR knocked it out of the park.

 

[Alicia]

3) The only thing in your list I strongly disagree with. Demand is not the reason they aren’t hitting projections. At all. When you’re turning people away, your park is either too popular or doesn’t have enough capacity. In VBs instance, I believe it’s both. The park is miles better than TL or BB. Anyone who thinks differently is biased beyond belief. TL has the best wave pool and BB has the best lazy river. You can make arguments for BBs family raft, which is cool, the ski lift is unique, etc. But as a whole? No contest. I think UOR knocked it out of the park.

I hear ya. I guess Joe explained it better... But with no one standing in lines due to Tapu, there's not enough physical space to hold the amount of people they expected to fit in the park at once. Maybe you drop TapuTapu then your wave pool and rivers are juuuussst right.

 

[Doug A.]

I believe there in lies the rub that when they were coming up with the Tapu system they overlooked that small detail. If no one is actually waiting in line there has to be somewhere to go and something to do while they wait. It is a flawed system for sure but maybe cut the number of attractions available for virtual queue so that more people will wait in lines. In theory that would reduce the number of people in walkways, wave pool and lazy river allowing more people to come in.

 

[GadgetGuru]

Is there any idea if Universal will expand the TapuTapu concept elsewhere?

A lot of their issues can only be seen at scaling the system up to a full park. It seems like they could (in theory) scale this up to something bigger if they wanted.

Or has VB scared Universal from queueless lines in the future?

 

[Andysol]

Ooh, I know.

What if they allow you to book 3 attractions only, but 60 days out. :bolt:

 

[Alicia]

Ooh, I know.

What if they allow you to book 3 attractions only, but 60 days out. :bolt:

30 days out. 60 only if you stay on site. And additional ones available for club level. Yea, that's the ticket.

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

Here's the deal, I will start to get annoyed when some rides go seasonal and the fire effects get turned off again

Companies cut costs all the time

I think Sindbad got the boot because of a couple of things:
1) Poor attendance, essentially acting as a money pit (lots of pyro, effects, stunts, etc)
2) Surveys (People apparently have made it clear that they enjoy street entertainment more than a 'sit down show'...Universal has run with this)
3) Moving of funds (and people) to a better use (From the sounds of it, they are trying to move the Sindbad cast around to the shiny new Bourne show...I hope they do anyway)

I don't know, I just don't see this as a huge fire that needs to be put out

I think a lot of folks forget what "cost-cutting Universal" looks like

The thing is, that back then they had far fewer screen rides than they do now, so that’s a bit of a black eye. So aside from Potter coaster (which is already replacing a beloved NON-SCREEN attraction), all the non-screen rides are being held for the new park.

Also, it seems like Volcano Bay is sort of Universal’s Disneyland Paris. Sounds like they’d be better off abolishing TapuTapu.

 

[Legacy]

The thing is, that back then they had far fewer screen rides than they do now, so that’s a bit of a black eye. So aside from Potter coaster (which is already replacing a beloved NON-SCREEN attraction), all the non-screen rides are being held for the new park.

Well, except for the Jurassic Park coaster. And likely SLoP. And the T2 replacement features live performers...

 

[OhHaiInternet95]

Well, except for the Jurassic Park coaster. And likely SLoP. And the T2 replacement features live performers...

But those got delayed for the new park? That's what I thought was said. My mistake.

 

[Magic-Man]

But those got delayed for the new park? That's what I thought was said. My mistake.

The Jurassic Park coaster is still coming, as well as the T2 replacement. SLoP is a mystery, as it could go to either the new park of USF.

 

[Legacy]

The Jurassic Park coaster is still coming, as well as the T2 replacement. SLoP is a mystery, as it could go to either the new park of USF.

Or IoA. I’ve heard it coming to either of the cure parks - not P4rk though.

 

[Quint]

Is there any idea if Universal will expand the TapuTapu concept elsewhere?

There's a reason why they are holding firm on Tapu. Look at the in-room tech at Adventura for a hint of what's to come. And does no one think it strange that the past two attractions introduced at USF have had ride reservation systems? The writing is on the wall, kids.

 

[AlexanderMBush]

I pointed out that TPU article on the subject of this. Yeah, they ain't getting rid on Tapu, and that it seems abundantly clear to me that we should be VERY interested of UOSouth on a technological scale.