Universal Orlando Resort Expansion (Part 1)

[zg44]

Hey guys, not sure if this was posted (if so, my bad) but Universal updated its mass grading plans for the Universal Blvd land. Before it was for about 350 acres, but they upped it to just under 450 acres. Also, the plans show up to 230 new acres designated, which according to public records is still labeled as UCPM land, but most likely is part of the land they acquired from the settlement. The first image was the past permitted site and the b/w version is the new one.

I'll post the link to the story, but its behind a paywall (Sorry, the mothership needs to make money) but I posted images below that i figure can at least spur discussions.

Link: http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/...sal-orlando-to-develop-another-100-acres.html

- Rich

Yeah, that's basically all of the usable land in what will be the 2nd resort proper.

I guess the most interesting thing is that there's no indication of the Mandarin extension, and we've already seen they're putting some temporary bodies of water on the original path of the Mandarin extension.

So this is probably the beginning of the shaping of how the retention ponds and the rest of the water bodies will fit into the overall plan for the resort and how they'll be spread around.

I assume that land is being planned for roughly:

2 dry parks, 1 water park, CityWalk 2.0, 4 hotels, and then the 100+ acres of back office/warehouses/staging, etc.

There's also the parking/transport structures, either on that main part or on one of the parcels nearby with bridge to the main properties.

 

[zg44]

Another image to go with @RichOBJ's showing the main area of the 2nd resort.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

This initial grading permit for 444 acres represents 3/4 of the area of the north property. Not a bad start.

 

[Happytycho]

Yeah, that's basically all of the usable land in what will be the 2nd resort proper.

I guess the most interesting thing is that there's no indication of the Mandarin extension, and we've already seen they're putting some temporary bodies of water on the original path of the Mandarin extension.

So this is probably the beginning of the shaping of how the retention ponds and the rest of the water bodies will fit into the overall plan for the resort and how they'll be spread around.

I assume that land is being planned for roughly:

2 dry parks, 1 water park, CityWalk 2.0, 4 hotels, and then the 100+ acres of back office/warehouses/staging, etc.

There's also the parking/transport structures, either on that main part or on one of the parcels nearby with bridge to the main properties.

I don't believe that this tells us anything new about the final layout the new land. As far as I can tell, the only work they have added to the plans is maintenance of waterways on property just acquired - everything else we already knew. There do not appear to be any substantial changes to the current pond alignment, but I expect that there will need to be at some point. I think this also clarifies that everything to the east of this land is wetlands.

Also, as a point of clarification, the total area in these plans is greater than 450 acres. I think an accurate estimate is to say that they will have 400-450 acres for guest areas after dedicating 100 or so for clear backstage stuff (warehouses, employee parking, etc.). From the 400-450 acres they will have to work with, 80-90 will be immediately lost to parking garages and Citywalk 2. I am also not including the two 15 acre parcels they own just to the south of this area that I presume will also become hotels.

So we are probably looking at 300-350 acres to allocate among parks and hotels on the "main property".

 

[nickwilde]

From the 400-450 acres they will have to work with, 80-90 will be immediately lost to parking garages and Citywalk 2.

What are the odds that they do garages vs. surface parking (and replace with garages over 10-20 years as the area develops)? Or do they frontload capital costs to take advantage of the tax benefit window?

Also, assuming a 4-5 year construction window until the first park & hotels open, when (if ever) can we expect to start hearing about permits or even public discussion of transportation options? I'd assume this will be a big issue, as Universal will have to acquire a ROW and likely work through the city... an ideal network/scenario would have stops at CityWalk 1, W&W hotels, CityWalk 2, and the convention center.

Even if it's just a Bus Rapid Transit-esque system with something like dedicated lanes & signal priority, it will take 2-3 years of planning and development to complete... and I truly believe that is the bare minimum for Universal to have a workable connection between two resort complexes w/ annual visitor numbers in the 20-30+ million range.

 

[zg44]

I don't believe that this tells us anything new about the final layout the new land. As far as I can tell, the only work they have added to the plans is maintenance of waterways on property just acquired - everything else we already knew. There do not appear to be any substantial changes to the current pond alignment, but I expect that there will need to be at some point. I think this also clarifies that everything to the east of this land is wetlands.

Also, as a point of clarification, the total area in these plans is greater than 450 acres. I think an accurate estimate is to say that they will have 400-450 acres for guest areas after dedicating 100 or so for clear backstage stuff (warehouses, employee parking, etc.). From the 400-450 acres they will have to work with, 80-90 will be immediately lost to parking garages and Citywalk 2. I am also not including the two 15 acre parcels they own just to the south of this area that I presume will also become hotels.

So we are probably looking at 300-350 acres to allocate among parks and hotels on the "main property".

Yeah, they've made it clear that any immediate changes are probably temporary and that they'll submit a real master plan later (which will probably show actual configurations).

Beyond that, I assume they'll split the acreage up into proper parcels at some point as well. With the current resort, each park and hotel has its own parcel of allocated acreage. That will be when the rubber hits the road, when the parcels get reallocated.

I assume we'll see one dry park parcel of 110 acres, the CityWalk 2.0 parcel of 40 acres, the transport/parking parcel of 50-60 acres, and 2 hotel parcels of 20 acres each carved out... That would total 240-250 acres.

The 2nd dry park and water park should be pretty obvious after that even though their parcels may not be allocated until later.

 

[richjagr]

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Pie

Just catching up, but this image says to me 6 lands and an entry. Wondering if it is a hint from @Disneyhead for the next dry park.

 

[quinnmac000]

I actually don't think CityWalk 2.0 like the one we currently have will part of the big parcel especially if their goal is to get the conventioneers and pull from I-drive.



The biggest issue with Universal South Campus in regards to citywalk is how spread out everything is while not being in walking distance. Universal Endless Summer Resort will have to be bussed to either citywalk or Citywalk 2.0 based on its location which is already a negative.

Across from plot 1 you have Orlando Eye. Plot 2 you have the Pointe right there. Plot 7 is way too far as well as plot 5.

Plot 5 is best location for a higher level resort due to its isolation but its also a decent walk.

Plot 6 will have some traffic issues as its not one of the two main tourist roads and more out of the way from those staying at nearby convention resorts. The only benefit I see for plot 6 is the relative location to the Shingle Creek Resort but even then they don't have a road leading out to Destination Parkway where Plot 6 touches the road.

Plots 3 and 4 work best for citywalk 2.0 on the land Universal currently ons however I would rather see those be value resorts. The absolute best option would be using plot 8 and 14. Plot 8 and 14 connect the 1,2,3,4, and 6 and can be easily be designated into a multiple zone city walk where you have different areas to attract different groups of people as I'm sure this new campus will get much heavier traffic in general.

 

[JoeCamel]

Just catching up, but this image says to me 6 lands and an entry. Wondering if it is a hint from @Disneyhead for the next dry park.

Standard clipart image. Think he googled pie chart.....sorry.

 

[Happytycho]

I actually don't think CityWalk 2.0 like the one we currently have will part of the big parcel especially if their goal is to get the conventioneers and pull from I-drive.

View attachment 6598

The biggest issue with Universal South Campus in regards to citywalk is how spread out everything is while not being in walking distance. Universal Endless Summer Resort will have to be bussed to either citywalk or Citywalk 2.0 based on its location which is already a negative.

Across from plot 1 you have Orlando Eye. Plot 2 you have the Pointe right there. Plot 7 is way too far as well as plot 5.

Plot 5 is best location for a higher level resort due to its isolation but its also a decent walk.

Plot 6 will have some traffic issues as its not one of the two main tourist roads and more out of the way from those staying at nearby convention resorts. The only benefit I see for plot 6 is the relative location to the Shingle Creek Resort but even then they don't have a road leading out to Destination Parkway where Plot 6 touches the road.

Plots 3 and 4 work best for citywalk 2.0 on the land Universal currently ons however I would rather see those be value resorts. The absolute best option would be using plot 8 and 14. Plot 8 and 14 connect the 1,2,3,4, and 6 and can be easily be designated into a multiple zone city walk where you have different areas to attract different groups of people as I'm sure this new campus will get much heavier traffic in general.

This sounds like a great plan except that universal doesn't own plot 8.

I'm not sure that getting Citywalk 2.0 close to the convention center and other people's hotels should really be a priority. The current Citywalk does just fine with all park guests being fed through it from the parking garages.

Edit for Clarification: The area where the 8 is is one of the few pieces of land that universal didn't buy from Stan in the deal a few weeks ago, and I think it is very unlikely that they would acquire it soon enough to plan around having citywalk there.

 

[quinnmac000]

This sounds like a great plan except that universal doesn't own plot 8.

I'm not sure that getting Citywalk 2.0 close to the convention center and other people's hotels should really be a priority. The current Citywalk does just fine with all park guests being fed through it from the parking garages.

Edit for Clarification: The area where the 8 is is one of the few pieces of land that universal didn't buy from Stan in the deal a few weeks ago, and I think it is very unlikely that they would acquire it soon enough to plan around having citywalk there.

Even then in regards to their own guests, it should be a top priority purchase. Universal Summer Resort, Plot 1 and Plot 2 all aren't in comfortable walking distance of the North Campus or South Campus. If I'm staying at plot 1 or plot 2 why would i get on a bus to go drink and eat to later get on a hot bus when i can walk across the road to all the bars and restaurants right there.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

why would i get on a bus to go drink and eat to later get on a hot bus when i can walk across the road to all the bars and restaurants right there.

Depends on how the boundaries are set. Busch Gardens Tampa has plenty of eateries across the street but the way their walls and fences are set up it is not an easy walk. We could see something similar at the former wet and wild site.

 

[GadgetGuru]

Even then in regards to their own guests, it should be a top priority purchase. Universal Summer Resort, Plot 1 and Plot 2 all aren't in comfortable walking distance of the North Campus or South Campus. If I'm staying at plot 1 or plot 2 why would i get on a bus to go drink and eat to later get on a hot bus when i can walk across the road to all the bars and restaurants right there.

It seems like Universal's response to that is building exciting restaurants on-property. There's always going to be a budget-conscious set of people who will always eat off-site. It seems like Universal hopes that, if the restaurants are exciting enough and close enough to the main attractions, people will venture on-property.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

It seems like Universal's response to that is building exciting restaurants on-property. There's always going to be a budget-conscious set of people who will always eat off-site. It seems like Universal hopes that, if the restaurants are exciting enough and close enough to the main attractions, people will venture on-property.

Now that is a great post.:agree::clap::exclap::toast:

 

[Disneyhead]

Just catching up, but this image says to me 6 lands and an entry. Wondering if it is a hint from @Disneyhead for the next dry park.

Standard clipart image. Think he googled pie chart.....sorry.

JoeCamel is 100% correct.

 

[darkridelover]

Another image to go with @RichOBJ's showing the main area of the 2nd resort.

If I was planning to build a theme park on this property the first one would be located on the new "AREA TO BE ADDED" plot of land. It's far enough from residential areas and a small portion of the wetlands behind it would be a great firework launch place with enough of a buffer to not effect businesses around the area. And possible expansion areas with wetland relocation.

 

[Happytycho]

Even then in regards to their own guests, it should be a top priority purchase. Universal Summer Resort, Plot 1 and Plot 2 all aren't in comfortable walking distance of the North Campus or South Campus. If I'm staying at plot 1 or plot 2 why would i get on a bus to go drink and eat to later get on a hot bus when i can walk across the road to all the bars and restaurants right there.

It seems like Universal's response to that is building exciting restaurants on-property. There's always going to be a budget-conscious set of people who will always eat off-site. It seems like Universal hopes that, if the restaurants are exciting enough and close enough to the main attractions, people will venture on-property.

I think there are reasons why the value resorts tend to be farther from the parks and Citywalk than the more expensive ones are. If having the privilege of easy access to $20pp meals in Citywalk is important to you, then you should be booking a room at Royal Pacific or Hard Rock, not at Endless Summer Resort.

These resorts are all being built with food courts, so it's not as though there will be no decent food options that are easy to get to. If the food court at Surfside is still too expensive for someone, I doubt universal cares if they walk across the street to KFC for dinner. Additionally, because Citywalk is located between the parks and the transportation area, it is still relatively convenient for guests of the distant resorts to stop there for meals on their way in or out of the parks should they desire.

If I was planning to build a theme park on this property the first one would be located on the new "AREA TO BE ADDED" plot of land. It's far enough from residential areas and a small portion of the wetlands behind it would be a great firework launch place with enough of a buffer to not effect businesses around the area. And possible expansion areas with wetland relocation.

I think universal would have a very hard time getting approval to do anything in the wetlands areas, let alone launch fireworks into Shingle Creek.

 

[zg44]

This is interesting, Universal's surveying firm is showing that foreclosure parcel closest to the main plot is actually in SLRC now. I added that yellow questionmark where the parcel that we assumed was remaining with Stan Thomas was on the surveyor and the map we're using:

The yellow questionmarks are the same parcel in both images:

@Happytycho
What explains that discrepancy?

It seems like an error on their part, but it's worth noting that there hasn't been any resolution of that foreclosure case yet...

 

[Happytycho]

This is interesting, Universal's surveying firm is showing that foreclosure parcel closest to the main plot is actually in SLRC now. I added that yellow questionmark where the parcel that we assumed was remaining with Stan Thomas was on the surveyor and the map we're using:

The yellow questionmarks are the same parcel in both images:

@Happytycho
What explains that discrepancy?

It seems like an error on their part, but it's worth noting that there hasn't been any resolution of that foreclosure case yet...

What document is that surveyor's map from?

 

[zg44]

What document is that surveyor's map from?

Use that bottom link if it works for you, if not go through these steps:
The SFWMD epermitting database:
Records Search - Application/Permit

Just search for "Universal" as the company name to pull up their most recent water management permits.

The project name is "Serenoa Village Mass Grading" for the south resort. Click on the Application number, then go to the application documents and maps folders.

"serenoa village mg stormwater mgmt calculations" is the document with that map and other water maps.