Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[belloq87]

In some ways, the Skywalker bloodline always met in failure.

Anakin fell into confliction against the ways that the Jedi was teaching/ruling, while Palpatine was sharing that the dark side isn't always what it is; and when the time came, fell from the path of light. Even with his "redemption", he died the moment he first was put on the mask.

Luke, in some ways; isn't that far off from the tree. He nearly fell at the final battle of the Empire, and even when training Ben; nearly fell to killing his own nephew. And while yes, he did stop; he in some ways; fails as a teacher. For both Ben, and Rey; as he didn't exactly have what was needed. We can praise his farewell all we want, but that doesn't entirely change that he is extremely flawed.

Admittedly, the one that hasn't had this issue; is Leia.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think there's a difference between having a family struggle with failure against the backdrop of a story unfolding over decades and decades... and ending the family line with the last heir an evil (and likely dead) dictator.

When you hear or read George Lucas talking about the overaching story of the Skywalkers (as it stood from I - VI), it's clear he consciously wanted it ended in a hopeful place. I think IX needs to at least attempt that.

But, again, I don't want them just redoing Vader's redemption, either.

So... good luck, J.J.!

 

[Scott W.]

I don’t think that’s a fair measuring stick.

Why?

TFA is candy. TLJ is a fine wine. I’m not surprised at that. But the idea that “97% of the audience” disliked the movie is nonsense.

Like I said above, it might age better with time and the movies that follow, like a fine wine.

97% of people hating it is obviously absurd but I think that majority of people didn’t love it.

Edit: You have to admire that they at least tried something different. Granted, I think they failed but truth be told, I'd rather they done that than played it safe, otherwise, what's the point? If you want to watch the same thing over and over, watch the originals, they're better.

 

[Nick]

Why?


Like I said above, it might age better with time and the movies that follow, like a fine wine.

97% of people hating it is obviously absurd but I think that majority of people didn’t love it.

Edit: You have to admire that they at least tried something different. Granted, I think they failed but truth be told, I'd rather they done that than played it safe, otherwise, what's the point? If you want to watch the same thing over and over, watch the originals, they're better.

I’m not even sure it’s true a majority didn’t like it. It’s just that those who didn’t like it REALLY didn’t like it and want to let everyone know about it.

 

[Scott W.]

I’m not even sure it’s true a majority didn’t like it. It’s just that those who didn’t like it REALLY didn’t like it and want to let everyone know about it.

I said that they didn't love it. I think most people thought it was ok which in Star Wars world means that it's the worst piece of trash imaginable.

 

[fryoj]

If they don't pull the Rey/Kylo double turn the whole saga is ruined. They should have ended TLJ with Rey turning to set it up, but it's not too late to fix it.


Yes its hyperbole, but IMO that would have been a monster storyline.

 

[Nick]

It's a question of who "them" is. J.J. Abrams may have had different ideas for Kylo Ren than what Rian Johnson did with him, and now Abrams will try to reconcile those perspectives.

The problem is that if you don't redeem Kylo Ren (and he presumably dies evil), then the Skywalker bloodline ends on failure. I don't think that makes for a satisfying ending for this family's story.

Of course, redeeming him has its own pitfalls, namely that we've already seen that arc before.

So basically you want to see the same thing, but also admit it would be boring to see the same thing. This is how we ended up with TLJ after TFA - people complained that TFA was a rehash, Rian Johnson does something different, fan's say it's too different and are still mad.

The Star Wars fanbase is one of the worst out there and I swear will never be happy. Why should I care about what Ben's story means for the Skywalker bloodline? I want a good movie, not something that is only done to make fans happy.

I said that they didn't love it. I think most people thought it was ok which in Star Wars world means that it's the worst piece of trash imaginable.

There's literally a handful of films I would put out there that I "Love". If any of them are Star Wars movies, it's Rogue One (Surprise!). Love is a strong word in any sense of how it's used. Green Book was a great film and won Best Picture, but would I say I "loved" it? No. It was just a great movie.

 

[Viator]

I imagine no matter what, it's going to be a good film. JJ has only had one misfire for me (anyone remember Super 8?), as I'm sure he'll give it the best.

 

[Nick]

If they don't pull the Rey/Kylo double turn the whole saga is ruined. They should have ended TLJ with Rey turning to set it up, but it's not too late to fix it.


Yes its hyperbole, but IMO that would have been a monster storyline.

I agree, this is the direction i'd love to see the saga explore and end on. It would be an extremely cool change for the franchise as a whole, imo.

 

[Scott W.]

So basically you want to see the same thing, but also admit it would be boring to see the same thing. This is how we ended up with TLJ after TFA - people complained that TFA was a rehash, Rian Johnson does something different, fan's say it's too different and are still mad.

The Star Wars fanbase is one of the worst out there and I swear will never be happy. Why should I care about what Ben's story means for the Skywalker bloodline? I want a good movie, not something that is only done to make fans happy.


There's literally a handful of films I would put out there that I "Love". If any of them are Star Wars movies, it's Rogue One (Surprise!). Love is a strong word in any sense of how it's used. Green Book was a great film and won Best Picture, but would I say I "loved" it? No. It was just a great movie.

We’re living in very black and white times.

 

[Nick]

We’re living in very black and white times.

Ain't that the truth. Smartphone technology and the ease of access through apps to so much information at our finger tips is mostly to blame, imo. Knowing too much can be a bad thing. It's why i'd never want to be someone like @Marni1971 (as much as I appreciate the info he gives) who knows so much about WDW that never happens/what could've happened. So much info really makes people jaded.

 

[belloq87]

So basically you want to see the same thing, but also admit it would be boring to see the same thing. This is how we ended up with TLJ after TFA - people complained that TFA was a rehash, Rian Johnson does something different, fan's say it's too different and are still mad.

The Star Wars fanbase is one of the worst out there and I swear will never be happy. Why should I care about what Ben's story means for the Skywalker bloodline? I want a good movie, not something that is only done to make fans happy.

I don't know why you're being so pointed towards me, but whatever.

I have said multiple times in this thread that I don't want to see the same thing (re: Kylo Ren and Vader), but I also don't want the whole saga to end up being "The Tragedy of the Skywalker Family," because I think that would be kind of insulting.

I've also never held TFA's rehash qualities against it, nor are my problems with TLJ that it's too different.

 

[Nick]

I don't know why you're being so pointed towards me, but whatever.

I have said multiple times in this thread that I don't want to see the same thing (re: Kylo Ren and Vader), but I also don't want the whole saga to end up being "The Tragedy of the Skywalker Family," because I think that would be kind of insulting.

I've also never held TFA's rehash qualities against it.

Sorry if you took offense, most of my post actually wasn't aimed at you (really only the first sentence). The whole topic annoys me because Star Wars fans just seem like nothing is ever enough. TFA was a good movie (imo). Star Wars fans = TOO MUCH LIKE A NEW HOPE. TLJ was a good movie, too (imo). Star Wars Fans = TOO DIFFERENT!!!! BRING BACK THE GUY THAT DIRECTED TFA!

My point is that it seems like no matter what, Star Wars fans are going to find a reason to hate Episode IX and there continues to be sexist undertones to the detractors that really, really annoy me. Just look at how Episode IX was being audience rated on Rotten Tomatoes before they changed their system.

 

[belloq87]

Sorry if you took offense, most of my post actually wasn't aimed at you (really only the first sentence). The whole topic annoys me because Star Wars fans just seem like nothing is ever enough. TFA was a good movie (imo). Star Wars fans = TOO MUCH LIKE A NEW HOPE. TLJ was a good movie, too (imo). Star Wars Fans = TOO DIFFERENT!!!! BRING BACK THE GUY THAT DIRECTED TFA!

My point is that it seems like no matter what, Star Wars fans are going to find a reason to hate Episode IX and there continues to be sexist undertones to the detractors that really, really annoy me. Just look at how Episode IX was being audience rated on Rotten Tomatoes before they changed their system.

I just don't spend a lot of time concerning myself with broad, generalized fanbases; I care about my own opinions and the opinions of individuals who have interesting taste that I'm lucky enough to have discovered or interacted with.

I don't have any expectation of hating IX. If I don't hate any existing STAR WARS movie (I certainly think at least three are bad, but I don't have the animosity required to "hate" them), I can't fathom IX getting there. And I don't believe any modern STAR WARS movie can be as bad as ATTACK OF THE CLONES!

I hope it's good. I go into basically every movie wanting to enjoy it, and Abrams has only made one movie I dislike so far (STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS).

 

[Nick]

I just don't spend a lot of time concerning myself with broad, generalized fanbases; I care about my own opinions and the opinions of individuals who have interesting taste that I'm lucky enough to have discovered or interacted with.

I don't have any expectation of hating IX. If I don't hate any existing STAR WARS movie (I certainly think at least three are bad, but I don't have the animosity required to "hate" them), I can't fathom IX getting there. And I don't believe any modern STAR WARS movie can be as bad as ATTACK OF THE CLONES!

I hope it's good. I go into basically every movie wanting to enjoy it, and Abrams has only made one movie I dislike so far (STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS).

I mean, overall I don't care that much either. But when talking about it online, the fanbase is something you can't avoid anymore with twitter and then entertainment sites that run stories based on twitter reaction. It's all cyclical.

Like you, the only opinions I really, truly care about are my own and the people that I go to the movies with.

 

[belloq87]

In any event, I'm looking forward to following what happens at Celebration over the weekend. Between IX, Galaxy's Edge, THE MANDALORIAN, CLONE WARS, books, games, and more, there should be a ton of stuff to discuss!

 

[OLSinFLA]

Which is why it was the highest selling title in blue ray/digital that year, I’m sure. No one liked it!

Also highly regarded critically, and given a very high CinemaScore (which actually asks peoples popinions at the theater, rather than letting a small group bomb review, like RT). There is irony ion the #1 complaint about TFA was it was just a retread, and the gripe of TLJ is it didn't follow formula

 

[Nick]

There is irony ion the #1 complaint about TFA was it was just a retread, and the gripe of TLJ is it didn't follow formula

This is the biggest thing that I can only really laugh about because of how much both complaints contradict each other. Like, the people who complained about TFA being to similar to ANH were asking for a gear poop. They got it. They still weren't happy. It's all just sort of silly to me.

 

[MLevell]

I am a massive fan of The Last Jedi, I'm not even a super big Star Wars guy (Revenge of The Sith killed my interest in the franchise for a decade) and I think it's one of the highest quality blockbusters of the 21st Century. I saw it three times in theaters each with packed houses filled with cheers, and gasps, and all three ended with standing ovations. So yeah I think the internet hates it far more than the real world does. Do I think audiences like it just as much as Force Awakens? No. I can't think of many films people loved as much as Force Awakens, that film's core goal was to make every single person happy and excited, Last Jedi was far more risky just like Empire.

Still I love these characters and I am interested in seeing how JJ wraps things up, aside from Felicity he has never really done that before, and while I wish Rian Johnson was still steering the ship at least we aren't still getting that hack Colin Trevorrow, plus Knives Out sounds great.

I'm also quite interested to see footage from The Disney+ series this weekend, so far Marvel hasn't been able to make any TV that really feels like it is part of the MCU in part due to budgetary reasons and Star Wars feels even more difficult to pull off unless they spend a ridiculous amount on this show.

 

[Nick]

I'm also quite interested to see footage from The Disney+ series this weekend, so far Marvel hasn't been able to make any TV that really feels like it is part of the MCU in part due to budgetary reasons and Star Wars feels even more difficult to pull off unless they spend a ridiculous amount on this show.

The Marvel shows that have been out haven't felt tied into the Universe because Kevin Feige hasn't been along overseeing production. He will on all Disney+ shows. The Mandalorian is by far the show i'm most interested in from Disney+, though (as well as the Rogue One spin-off). The Star Wars universe isn't all Skywalkers and i'm glad we'll finally start to see that with some of these new series' and the two new trilogies they have planned, as well.

 

[Jamesh22]

After rewatching TLJ I don't dislike it as much as when I first saw it. It does have some epic moments as others have mentioned, but it also has some epically bad moments (Leia doing a Mary Poppins in space) I can now watch it and enjoy it for what it is and I still think it's better than the prequels.

What I find odd about JJ's comments is that he wrote the script draft for TLJ and still had producer credits. If he was unhappy with certain elements of the story he should have stepped in and changed them, particularly if he thought it would affect how ep 9 plays out.

JJ and Kathleen Kennedy supposedly had the story arc for 7, 8 and 9 mapped out before he started filming TFA.