Director James Gunn under fire for offensive tweets [Update: Fired]

[belloq87]

The key question is really whether or not they're keeping his script for VOL. 3. If they are, I think the movie is basically salvageable.

 

[Nick]

When talking about Disney having a double standard in terms of who they choose to fire, I do think it's worth pointing out that all three high profile cases at Disney in the past year (Lasseter, Barr and Gunn) have been at separate divisions. Lasseter at Pixar and WDAS (overseen by Ed Catmull), Barr at ABC Entertainment (overseen by Channing Dungey) and Gunn at Marvel Studios, a subsidiary of Walt Disney Studios (overseen by Alan Horn).

I think the bigger issue here is that each division seems to have it's own idea of what punishment should be handed out when there should be a set guideline from the top.

 

[Andysol]

I've been through a lot the past few years with family stuff. If I didn't have comedy I'd probably have killed myself, actually killed myself. Depression and anxiety is a real problem and all of that plus all I've been through is a ton. But I'M the one to make that joke, not someone else or James Gunn. I think that's something we need to remember here.

1) Sorry to hear that
2) Glad you’re better now
3) Why are you allowed to make a joke just because I you’ve been through something? And who are you telling the joke to? Wouldn’t it, so it wouldn’t need to be with a bunch of people you have pre-cleared that it wouldn’t find it offensive for your joke to stand?
4) Gunn isn’t funny. If those were jokes, which I assume they were, they were dumb and unfunny. He should stick to GotG. Because he sucks at stand up.

I don't believe this. Words are power and do have meaning. Simply ignoring them doesn't solve anything because it emboldens those with hateful views and normalizes them.

Not me. If you’re speaking into a void, It will have no impact.
I’m offended by absolutely nothing. Nothing. I can be annoyed or dislike a person and I can even bring things up for discussion. But I simply refuse to get offended.
Could I be offended by things? Would I have valid reasons to be offended? If I were to tell people why I was offended at something, would they agree with me that I should be offended? Absolutely.

Here is a key thing our world (in particular Americans) has forgotten. Taking offense impacts one person’s happiness- the offended. Not the offender. So when you choose to be offended, and make no mistake, it is a choice; Then you instantly become the victim. And that’s a place I choose not to live in, and I’m happy as hell about it.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

1) Sorry to hear that
2) Glad you’re better now
3) Why are you allowed to make a joke just because I you’ve been through something? And who are you telling the joke to? Wouldn’t it, so it wouldn’t need to be with a bunch of people you have pre-cleared that it wouldn’t find it offensive for your joke to stand?
4) Gunn isn’t funny. If those were jokes, which I assume they were, they were dumb and unfunny. He should stick to GotG. Because he sucks at stand up.

To answer #3 I think it matters who it's coming from and what the core thought is. There's a difference between a school bully making a joke about my family situation/my mental state and myself or my close friends. It's complicated and something I've been thinking through the past few days, I don't have the answer yet.

Gunn's jokes weren't good in any form but that can be true along with the fact the alt-right has used the morals of the general public as a weapon. Both can be true. Reminds me of this tweet

Not me. If you’re speaking into a void, It will have no impact.
I’m offended by absolutely nothing. Nothing. I can be annoyed or dislike a person and I can even bring things up for discussion. But I simply refuse to get offended.
Could I be offended by things? Would I have valid reasons to be offended? If I were to tell people why I was offended at something, would they agree with me that I should be offended? Absolutely.

Here is a key thing our world (in particular Americans) has forgotten. Taking offense impacts one person’s happiness- the offended. Not the offender. So when you choose to be offended, and make no mistake, it is a choice; Then you instantly become the victim. And that’s a place I choose not to live in, and I’m happy as hell about it.

Fair point, but what if the words are a call to violence, anger, and hate? Should a queer person capitulate homophobic statements that reduce and try to remove their humanity? As a white straight dude in America I have the status to be able to not be offended by such things, but it actually hurts others. Of course we're getting way off topic now and more into the general discussion of speech and hate speech.

 

[Andysol]

Fair point, but what if the words are a call to violence, anger, and hate? Should a queer person capitulate homophobic statements that reduce and try to remove their humanity? As a white straight dude in America I have the status to be able to not be offended by such things, but it actually hurts others. Of course we're getting way off topic now and more into the general discussion of speech and hate speech.

I believe you are confusing inaction and being unaware as equaling not offended.

One can still address situations and words and not be offended. A queer person should not ignore homophobic statements, but likewise, they should not be offended. Offense is a state of mind and it only brings about negative feelings.

Being white and straight means nothing. I cannot stand the liberal mentality that being in a minority group gives you exclusive rights to feel things differently. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I have a black adopted daughter. She will have two parents, be raised in a high income, etc. A massive departure from the “average” Black person growing up in America. But because she’s black... Even though she will have no black “culture”... she is supposed to relate to an entire race? It’s healthy for her to be offended simply because of her race? Hogwash. Everyone has a legit reason to be offended.

I’m white and straight. So I guess I’m not allowed to be offended. But I have buried two of my children. I know there have been many times I’ve had the opportunity to be offended, yet I choose not to be.

TLR:
1) Lack of offense does not equal inaction.
2) Being offended only hurts the offended.
3) Anyone can be offended, it doesn’t mean they should be as it puts you in a negative state of mind.

ETA: Sorry if I come off as insensitive or anything. Maybe I’m just flat or annoyed with the level of offense everyone has in our country and just have a different mentality.
I always tell myself this:
Can you walk to a faucet, turn it on, and get clean water? Then you’re already better than the vast majority of the world. So shut up about whatever you could possibly complain about.
I enjoy that perspective as it grounds me.

 

[Parkscope Joe]

So I'm going to need a day or so to digest and think about your response @Andysol. I believe this conversation is amazing and I'm very proud of the community in this thread. Big thanks to you and @TheCode on our discussions here.

Mainly wanted to post this before I respond back because it's something to remember when it comes to this specific instance: the debate Gunn had with Ben Shapiro and the dude who started this (I've only refereed to as MC).

 

[CyborgDinosaur]

So I'm going to need a day or so to digest and think about your response @Andysol. I believe this conversation is amazing and I'm very proud of the community in this thread. Big thanks to you and @TheCode on our discussions here.

I agree, I think this thread really shows the strength of this forum and its community. This just might be the only place on the internet I've seen an actual nuanced debate about this subject with everyone staying respectful of those with differing opinions. Everywhere else I've looked its just toxic and partisan.

 

[Andysol]

I agree, I think this thread really shows the strength of this forum and its community. This just might be the only place on the internet I've seen an actual nuanced debate about this subject with everyone staying respectful of those with differing opinions. Everywhere else I've looked its just toxic and partisan.

Thanks. And I’d have a beer with any of them. I’d rather have a relationship and conversation with someone who is aware and has opposing views than someone with like minded views but is oblivious and entrenched.

 

[Lucky Planet]

So I'm going to need a day or so to digest and think about your response
@Andysol. I believe this conversation is amazing and I'm very proud of the community in this thread. Big thanks to you and @TheCode on our discussions here.

Mainly wanted to post this before I respond back because it's something to remember when it comes to this specific instance: the debate Gunn had with Ben Shapiro and the dude who started this (I've only refereed to as MC).

I agree, I think this thread really shows the strength of this forum and its community. This just might be the only place on the internet I've seen an actual nuanced debate about this subject with everyone staying respectful of those with differing opinions. Everywhere else I've looked its just toxic and partisan.

Thanks. And I’d have a beer with any of them. I’d rather have a relationship and conversation with someone who is aware and has opposing views than someone with like minded views but is oblivious and entrenched.

I've tried to be as clear minded as possible about some of the stuff I've talked about here and in the politics thread and I am really glad to see these posts. we might not all agree about everything but we can be civil about it. thanks guys

 

[jseal777]

I've tried to be as clear minded as possible about some of the stuff I've talked about here and in the politics thread and I am really glad to see these posts. we might not all agree about everything but we can be civil about it. thanks guys

Just don’t bring up Nintendo being delayed:fight:

 

[TheGentTrent]

The petition's now at 150,000 signatures. For comparison's sake, Roseanne's is at 4000.

 

[Miketheboss]

Is Sarah Silverman gonna be ousted from Wreck It Ralph 2?

 

[MrRoamer]

He directly addressed why he didn't delete them: To show his growth as a person. Deleting them would be trying to erase what happened. He didn't want that. He wanted to show where he was as a person 8-10 years ago, and to show he was not that person any more.

They absolutely knew because these same tweets got complaints in 2012 and Gunn apologized about them then. This is not new information to Disney.

I know I'm super late to the party and am only on page 2 of how ever many pages this is at now, but no matter what your take on what he said was or the entire situation.

This right here is something that should be applauded, he didn't try to hide it, pretend it never happened, ignore it, or gaslight it. He purposefully acknowledged it, genuinely apologized for it, accepted it as a part of his past, and left it there as a marker for how he has grown in his life.

Many people in life would do the former, I feel if more people did the latter life and society would be very different and much better.

 

[TDBLMT]

I have a black adopted daughter. She will have two parents, be raised in a high income, etc. A massive departure from the “average” Black person growing up in America. But because she’s black... Even though she will have no black “culture”... she is supposed to relate to an entire race?

Hot take.

 

[Andysol]

Hot take.

I have lots. Hah- but this one really isn't so much of one.

The average black child, in fact, does have only one parental figure. 38.7% of black children live with both parents while 74.3% of white children do. The numbers show even more favorably towards other minority groups such as Asians with over 80% living with married parents. It's certainly cultural.

Social scientists will always declare the benefits for children who live in two-parent homes. Including economic, educational and health advantages, amongst others. It's a vicious cycle- socioeconomic status is impacted and then children repeat the cycle of their parents (just as teen moms do of every race).
That's not to say there aren't outliers or that single parents can't do a tremendous job, they can. But science and statistics doesn't (and shouldn't) look at outliers.

Look no further than the statistics, and you'll see my daughter won't line up with the average black child being born in America today. She'll be black, sure, but the majority of other components will be significantly different. To think otherwise would mean that I buy into the notion that just by being black makes you disadvantaged, which I don't buy into. And I sure as hell don't want my daughter to buy into that either. I believe it's significantly more complex than that.

Simply put, it's a matter of educating yourself.

ETA for sources:
http://worldfamilymap.ifstudies.org/2015/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/WFM-Figure3_2015-01.jpg
America’s Families and Living Arrangements: 2017
https://ifstudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/zill-figure-3-children-living-arrangement-race.png
Children in single-parent families by race | KIDS COUNT Data Center

 

[TDBLMT]

k:

 

[P@n!K_Sw1tC#]

What blows my mind is the fact that the same people who continue to call it “joking” are the same ones that get continue to be offended by everything else. Hypocrisy.

 

[Andysol]

What blows my mind is the fact that the same people who continue to call it “joking” are the same ones that get continue to be offended by everything else. Hypocrisy.

It's all sides though. One side is outraged about Roseanne but not about Gunn. The other is outraged against Gunn but not Roseanne. There's so much hypocrisy all the time, it's astounding. And people just can't be adults and everyone bemoans and cries. For every crybaby worrying about Hillary Duff and Chris Hemsworth dressing up as an indian for a Lone ranger party, there's an equal crybaby worrying about people kneeling for an anthem. Just stop supporting whatever it is if you feel so inclined and stop crying about it.

Q: Did you see the new GotG movie?
"I didn't watch GotG because I don't agree with the director's jokes about pedophilia. Just not my cup of tea."

Q: Did you see the new Roseanne episode last night?
"I didn't watch Roseanne because of the racist statements she made. Just not my cup of tea."

Both of those questions and answers do more to create conversation and have a positive and personal impact.

If people care about Roseanne's statements, then don't watch the show. Bad ratings will get it cancelled. If people didn't care, keep watching it. Same goes with Gunn. I don't need F'ing Disney playing censor to what we, as society, can handle or accept. It's their right, because it's their empire. But the fact that we, as a society, can't regulate ourselves is insulting. And the fact we think we should regulate others is equally insulting.
Roseanne and Gunn should both have jobs until the ratings say otherwise is my take. Let the people speak with their wallets.

 

[jtsalien]

It's all sides though. One side is outraged about Roseanne but not about Gunn. The other is outraged against Gunn but not Roseanne. There's so much hypocrisy all the time, it's astounding. And people just can't be adults and everyone bemoans and cries. For every crybaby worrying about Hillary Duff and Chris Hemsworth dressing up as an indian for a Lone ranger party, there's an equal crybaby worrying about people kneeling for an anthem. Just stop supporting whatever it is if you feel so inclined and stop crying about it.

Q: Did you see the new GotG movie?
"I didn't watch GotG because I don't agree with the director's jokes about pedophilia. Just not my cup of tea."

Q: Did you see the new Roseanne episode last night?
"I didn't watch Roseanne because of the racist statements she made. Just not my cup of tea."

Both of those questions and answers do more to create conversation and have a positive and personal impact.

If people care about Roseanne's statements, then don't watch the show. Bad ratings will get it cancelled. If people didn't care, keep watching it. Same goes with Gunn. I don't need F'ing Disney playing censor to what we, as society, can handle or accept. It's their right, because it's their empire. But the fact that we, as a society, can't regulate ourselves is insulting. And the fact we think we should regulate others is equally insulting.
Roseanne and Gunn should both have jobs until the ratings say otherwise is my take. Let the people speak with their wallets.

This whole toxic culture stems from people taking sides, or reducing complicated, messy, and layered people or ideas into "X people believe/do Y, so we must do Z".

I'm sure this is a problem that has always existed in society. But the expansiveness and availability of social media makes this kind of mob mentality and group think all the easier.

It's when we stop treating each other as fellow humans that everything starts to break down.

 

[CyborgDinosaur]

To think otherwise would mean that I buy into the notion that just by being black makes you disadvantaged, which I don't buy into.

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting this, but are you arguing that minorities are not disadvantaged by racial discrimination?