Disney Parks Build Timelines

[Jake S]

Things may have changed, but I recall Disney announcing the Cars Land addition in 2007 ... a full five years before it opened. At the time, I couldn't conceive of 2012 (I was, admittedly, 15) but the long wait did nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for an incredibly themed area. It's also worth noting that "Carland" was originally presented in a Blue Sky fashion before they knew Cars was going to become a hit.

I guess my point is that I have some frustrations with Disney being unable or unwilling to just announce a thing and then build it ... but I largely think this is an issue for nerds like us and less so for those who just visit the parks every few years (or less, if we're thinking about Walt Disney World).

 

[Mad Dog]

Things may have changed, but I recall Disney announcing the Cars Land addition in 2007 ... a full five years before it opened. At the time, I couldn't conceive of 2012 (I was, admittedly, 15) but the long wait did nothing to dampen my enthusiasm for an incredibly themed area. It's also worth noting that "Carland" was originally presented in a Blue Sky fashion before they knew Cars was going to become a hit.

I guess my point is that I have some frustrations with Disney being unable or unwilling to just announce a thing and then build it ... but I largely think this is an issue for nerds like us and less so for those who just visit the parks every few years (or less, if we're thinking about Walt Disney World).

I remember following that build on Mice Chat. They always have excellent photo layouts. Build was slow as molasses, but extremely interesting how they turned a parking lot into a nice land, with one of the best ever theme park attractions.....I doubt the general public has any significant awareness on new lands and attractions, so it's really a non issue.....I made some comments last May on how no one we talked to on our long WDW vacation had any idea that Epic was being built. And some of them were staying at the Rosen, a stones throw from Epic.

 

[Jake S]

I remember following that build on Mice Chat.

same here! following that project through the end of high school and then eventually getting a job with the park shortly before it opened was a long, but enjoyable journey.

 

[TheUniC6]

The bottom line is that Disney needs some new changes in management, not just at the parks division, but the company as a whole. Their slow pace means they are very much likely to miss the boat on any large scale additions to their parks this decade, as knowing Disney's recent track record with the parks, some of the recent "what if" blue sky concepts pitched at D23 2022 and Destination D23 might not happen as well.

I know this may seem controversial, but I wonder if getting bought by Apple (if it does happen that is) could fix a lot of the problems currently going on at Disney, especially the parks. Apple could make needed changes to the parks leadership (maybe Josh D'Amaro gets the boot as head of the parks division) which could mean new attractions and lands are added to the parks far more frequent and on faster build timelines. Plus any additions to the parks would be a drop in the bucket for Apple cost wise. Apple could even implement their technology into Disney park attractions to create more immersive experiences.

 

[Jake S]

I'm extremely skeptical that Apple buying Disney (which would, in my opinion, stink out loud) would lead to increased investment in the parks. That's typically not how these things go.

I'll also note that while I'd love to see Disney build more attractions in its domestic parks (the international parks are actually getting quite a bit of stuff!) I don't think the blame, such as it is, lies at the feet of parks management. The bill for Disney's previous acquisitions has come due and a new owner won't magically make that go away.

Of course, I also don't think this is a crisis for the Disney Parks, which remain very fun and very profitable. I'm very skeptical of the idea that Epic Universe substantially changes that reality.

 

[TheUniC6]

I'm extremely skeptical that Apple buying Disney (which would, in my opinion, stink out loud) would lead to increased investment in the parks. That's typically not how these things go.

I'll also note that while I'd love to see Disney build more attractions in its domestic parks (the international parks are actually getting quite a bit of stuff!) I don't think the blame, such as it is, lies at the feet of parks management. The bill for Disney's previous acquisitions has come due and a new owner won't magically make that go away.

Of course, I also don't think this is a crisis for the Disney Parks, which remain very fun and very profitable. I'm very skeptical of the idea that Epic Universe substantially changes that reality.

Some Disney YouTubers like OG55 actually think Epic Universe will actually eat into Universal's own parks particularly USF. That park has overall gotten the least amount of big new things recently. And with Zelda rumored for 2027 at IOA, some families (the ones who tend to do Disney and then tack on Universal at the end) could end up choosing to go to IOA and EU only and simply skip out on USF.

 

[Jake S]

That's possible! My hunch is that opening Epic Universe will be additive to the Disney and Universal parks in Orlando while we see continued degradation of the tourist population at parks like SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa. I went on a trip to Orlando with my wife's family in March and, while obviously anecdotal, they would have simply added another day had there been three Universal parks.

There will be some guests that visit more frequently and a bit more strategically, but I'm not convinced they make up the lion's share of visitors to Orlando. I also think we'll see the parks supplement their attendance with deals for locals.

Anyway! I have no idea what's going to happen, but I think there's room for all the Universal and Disney parks in Orlando. But, we'll see.

 

[TheUniC6]

That's possible! My hunch is that opening Epic Universe will be additive to the Disney and Universal parks in Orlando while we see continued degradation of the tourist population at parks like SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa. I went on a trip to Orlando with my wife's family in March and, while obviously anecdotal, they would have simply added another day had there been three Universal parks.

There will be some guests that visit more frequently and a bit more strategically, but I'm not convinced they make up the lion's share of visitors to Orlando. I also think we'll see the parks supplement their attendance with deals for locals.

Anyway! I have no idea what's going to happen, but I think there's room for all the Universal and Disney parks in Orlando. But, we'll see.

I do hope that if EU pulls in enough guests, Universal will have no choice but to focus on USF for the foreseeable future once Zelda comes online in 2027. There are tons of areas in that park that need work and it will be interesting and exciting to see where USF goes post EU.

 

[Cup_Of_Coffee]

USF benefits a lot from having Diagon Alley and the Hogwarts Express right now, I do wonder if that is less of a “star” factor when Epic opens.

I’d say the same for Animal Kingdom, Pandora may be a decade old before it gets something new. Now with 7 parks between Universal and Disney, with guests typically staying 5-7 days, it’ll be interesting to see what parks tourists cut out of their trips.

Would think, Disney would want to build something new ASAP for Animal Kingdom.

 

[Mad Dog]

Probably in the minority, but I also think that Studios and IOA attendance will flatten, or slightly decrease when Epic opens, most especially in the slow to moderate seasons. Though I 'm guessing both parks will be very busy during the busy Holiday and Spring break weeks. Overall though, I'm guessing no increase. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing since IOA and Studios operations struggle when attendance is over 10 million each due to lack of capacity to handle those crowds.

 

[IzzyB]

Probably in the minority, but I also think that Studios and IOA attendance will flatten, or slightly decrease when Epic opens, most especially in the slow to moderate seasons. Though I 'm guessing both parks will be very busy during the busy Holiday and Spring break weeks. Overall though, I'm guessing no increase. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing since IOA and Studios operations struggle when attendance is over 10 million each due to lack of capacity to handle those crowds.

Agreed, honestly Universal could benefit from the crowds spreading out. That is a huge complaint many make is the long lines at Universal. They just don't have enough capacity in their parks. While AK also suffers from this it helps that there are animal areas and shows and so you don't feel like you are in lines all day.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Some Disney YouTubers like OG55 actually think Epic Universe will actually eat into Universal's own parks particularly USF. That park has overall gotten the least amount of big new things recently. And with Zelda rumored for 2027 at IOA, some families (the ones who tend to do Disney and then tack on Universal at the end) could end up choosing to go to IOA and EU only and simply skip out on USF.

USF will follow Epcot's role in the resort. It won't be the most popular one, but it'll remain crowded thanks to its seasonal events. But yes, this is the park most in danger of being cannibalized by EU. And when I say cannibalized, I don't mean fully tank in attendance, just stagnate/lag. Epcot attendance lagged, but it didn't dip when DAK/DHS got their additions.

USF benefits a lot from having Diagon Alley and the Hogwarts Express right now, I do wonder if that is less of a “star” factor when Epic opens.

I’d say the same for Animal Kingdom, Pandora may be a decade old before it gets something new. Now with 7 parks between Universal and Disney, with guests typically staying 5-7 days, it’ll be interesting to see what parks tourists cut out of their trips.

Would think, Disney would want to build something new ASAP for Animal Kingdom.

That's why WDW is emphasizing DAK as the next park for investment. I have the pleasure of visiting DAK after work each week, and it's pretty much a ghost town. SeaWorld/DAK/USF will be fighting for scraps lol

Probably in the minority, but I also think that Studios and IOA attendance will flatten, or slightly decrease when Epic opens, most especially in the slow to moderate seasons. Though I 'm guessing both parks will be very busy during the busy Holiday and Spring break weeks. Overall though, I'm guessing no increase. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing since IOA and Studios operations struggle when attendance is over 10 million each due to lack of capacity to handle those crowds.

Worried to see what happens over the next year or so regarding ops. HHN's attendance level is roughly ~25-30K a night, and they can't manage that properly. I accidentally attended IOA on a Rock The Universe day and they were just not at all ready for those crowds. It's very impressive to see how WDW manages 45K guests at MK on an average day and Universal struggles with nearly half of that.

Agreed, honestly Universal could benefit from the crowds spreading out. That is a huge complaint many make is the long lines at Universal. They just don't have enough capacity in their parks. While AK also suffers from this it helps that there are animal areas and shows and so you don't feel like you are in lines all day.

One thing Universal did really good, and no longer does as much (as well as Disney), are attractions that you can simply just go and experience with no wait. While they are not E-tickets, they take away some of the stress from having to either queue or do nothing at the park.

 

[Mad Dog]

USF will follow Epcot's role in the resort. It won't be the most popular one, but it'll remain crowded thanks to its seasonal events. But yes, this is the park most in danger of being cannibalized by EU. And when I say cannibalized, I don't mean fully tank in attendance, just stagnate/lag. Epcot attendance lagged, but it didn't dip when DAK/DHS got their additions.


That's why WDW is emphasizing DAK as the next park for investment. I have the pleasure of visiting DAK after work each week, and it's pretty much a ghost town. SeaWorld/DAK/USF will be fighting for scraps lol


Worried to see what happens over the next year or so regarding ops. HHN's attendance level is roughly ~25-30K a night, and they can't manage that properly. I accidentally attended IOA on a Rock The Universe day and they were just not at all ready for those crowds. It's very impressive to see how WDW manages 45K guests at MK on an average day and Universal struggles with nearly half of that.


One thing Universal did really good, and no longer does as much (as well as Disney), are attractions that you can simply just go and experience with no wait. While they are not E-tickets, they take away some of the stress from having to either queue or do nothing at the park.

AK has become the opposite of usual tour plan recommendations. Park is busy early in the day, but dies the last four or five hours. When I take the kids next year, I'm not going to the park until around 11 AM and stay until it closes....and do Pandora rides at the end of the day.

 

[HandsomePete]

Their slow pace means they are very much likely to miss the boat on any large scale additions to their parks this decade

1) The decade still has six full years left.
2) This decade at WDW they’ve already opened MMRR, Tron, Guardians, Remy, a firework show, and RotR opened Dec 2019. They’re replacing that firework show and have also opened and closed Starcruiser.
3) I’ve said this repeatedly, but the Orlando-centric crowd always forgets that it’s a global parks business. Hong Kong has a large expansion under construction. Shanghai has a large expansion under construction. Paris has a large expansion under construction. Tokyo technically doesn’t count, but same. All of this stuff has always been cadenced if you look back over time - a site isn’t next in line for a shiny new E Ticket when it’s added multiple since other sites have added any.
4) There are genuine resource bottlenecks when building that much overseas plus two cruise ships.

Some Disney YouTubers like OG55 actually think Epic Universe will actually eat into Universal's own parks particularly USF.

My guess is that there will be an AP visitation shift when Epic opens. There are going to be a number of people for whom it’s a lot easier to get to and in/out of than the main property, and it’ll be the new thing instead of going on VC for the 30th time.

 

[TheUniC6]

1) The decade still has six full years left.
2) This decade at WDW they’ve already opened MMRR, Tron, Guardians, Remy, a firework show, and RotR opened Dec 2019. They’re replacing that firework show and have also opened and closed Starcruiser.
3) I’ve said this repeatedly, but the Orlando-centric crowd always forgets that it’s a global parks business. Hong Kong has a large expansion under construction. Shanghai has a large expansion under construction. Paris has a large expansion under construction. Tokyo technically doesn’t count, but same. All of this stuff has always been cadenced if you look back over time - a site isn’t next in line for a shiny new E Ticket when it’s added multiple since other sites have added any.
4) There are genuine resource bottlenecks when building that much overseas plus two cruise ships.


My guess is that there will be an AP visitation shift when Epic opens. There are going to be a number of people for whom it’s a lot easier to get to and in/out of than the main property, and it’ll be the new thing instead of going on VC for the 30th time.

With how Iger has been talking up Avatar for DLR, maybe that will be the 2028 addition for LA2028 if they break ground next year which they should be able to since DL Forward will in all likelihood get the green light. Unless things change at they can somehow pull a one two punch with Avengers for 2027 and Avatar in 2028. Then following LA2028, break ground on a new land/mini lands in the Simba lot for a 2030-2031 opening.

 

[yourguytay]

You make a good point about build timelines often being a point of discussion for Disney parks. A few thoughts on your questions:

Disney does take a very long/methodical approach which has pros/cons. Likely due to scope/scale of projects.

They have announced some future areas like Zootopia and Moana lands, but years out. Not much immediately on horizon beyond rethemes.

Think announcements are received better spaced out vs all at once. Gives something to look forward to each year.

Since 2017 there have been new rides but spread across multiple parks/lands. A big new land every year would be tough for Disney to pull off.

Overall it's a balancing act between wanting new things vs not rushing development. Slow pace is frustrating but may help Disney maintain their high quality standards. Could maybe announce a few more mid-size projects to fill the gaps in the meantime.