Frozen Ever After

[IzzyB]

I'm more worried about the Na'vi River Journey having issues than anything you mentioned. Although, that ride is at least purpose built instead of half-assed.

It is using the Shanghai PoTC tech, so I imagine it won't have the same issues Frozen has.

 

[Cole]

Well Shanghai pirates isn't really having the best of luck in terms of tech issues right now. I'm sure there will be lots of problems with the AAs and system as it is fairly new. But hey it's a new ride, we should expect these things when it opens and expect them to end when time goes on

 

[Ultranel]

When I was there they were letting stand by people on. My understanding is they close the stand by line down when it gets too long so that people are not waiting over 180 minutes and this mostly happens when they have had a breakdown and those FP people are trying to get on plus with the current times FP people. So once these break downs stop (which some are due to AAs and not just boats) then the lines all around will get better. But we already knew capacity was going to be an issue, the lines were going to be long, and FPs were going to be hard to get. None of this should be a shock to anyone on here. DH warned us this was not ready to open, so again down time should not be a shock.

I think it is unfair to say Avatar won't be open or working in 2017 because of Frozen and RoL. That would be like saying, hey if you want to ride Fallon in 2017 you better plan for late summer or 2018 because you know, they will have technical issues since they are having them with Kong. Or hey, you want Nintendo in 2020, be prepared for 2021 because you know F&F was delayed into the next year. They are completely different projects, with completely different techs, completely different time tables, and completely different people. You can't compare Frozen to Avatar. Just like you can't compare Fallon and Kong.

Well it is clear to me that we'll never see things eye to eye, probably due to our different thinking process, which it is fine... The point I wanted to make was that when you are "good" at something, most people will expect the best from you when dealing with that subject or thing you are good at. Here you got Frozen, a ride that was already built except for the S bend in the beginning, and lets not forget they were having problems with boats getting stuck. You would think a 60 year old company that have built many boat rides, would not be dealing with situations like this, you would think they are expert by now on simple boat rides. Same with AAs, Disney is known for the best AAs in the business, although the projected faces and movement might be new technologies (even though SDMT have used projected faces already, and when it comes to movement, I'll never forget the preshow AA for Time Keeper show at MK), but my point is, make sure the new AA has been well tested before you put the "Show Ready" stamp on it... why? because you are the best on AAs. Then you got the wait times and FP+ vs. Stand by... look! We all knew about the low capacity, also I'm reading here that Maelstrom already had problems with the boats (but I can see how it could be handle back then, since the guest flow was lower), so my thought process would be "If I have such a strong IP, which guarantees me automatic success. Perhaps Maelstrom is not the ride that will be able to handle the heavy demand of the IP we are working on", but that's just me... I consider that rational thinking "Hmm trouble ahead, let me see how can I approach this situation in a different way".
The world knew about the problems ahead, except for the company itself... they were completely clueless about the ride's Facts and Problems, or were they? and that's what gets to me. ROL, so I hear they were having trouble controlling the barges and so on, well! it most be because water moves. I would think this is the very 1st situation to bring to the table before getting deep into the idea. Well! news flash! wind blows, so before they invest so much into drones technologies, please take a look at the "wind blowing" subject.
So when you talk about Kong, I was expecting problems because it is new tech for them and it's the 1st of it's kind, just like Fallon will be and F&F.... same thing I am expecting from Cobra's Curse, it's a 1st for BGT, maybe Mako because it's a record breaking ride here... maybe? but to get back to your point, IF!!! TF at USF (which it was sold to me as a clone from USH) would've had problem like Frozen at opening month, then I would be the 1st to say "WTF Universal". So my joke about Avatar was, if they are building ANOTHER soaring type and boat ride then expect trouble because it just seems like they can't get right what they're already familiar with. If Disney would build a new attraction similar to Spiderman technology then, yes! I would expect some problems because it is all new to the company, but if I start hearing that now Soaring Around The World is having technical difficulties every 30mins.... then I am sorry, but that's just something I can't find excuses for.

 

[Ultranel]

Well Shanghai pirates isn't really having the best of luck in terms of tech issues right now. I'm sure there will be lots of problems with the AAs and system as it is fairly new. But hey it's a new ride, we should expect these things when it opens and expect them to end when time goes on

I would forgive Disney in this case because I've seen the POV and that ride is totally new to what we expect from Disney, So BRAVO!!!, things like this happen when dealing with something totally new, get the bugs fixed and be proud of it, because Disney definitely brought progress and something new to the business. If it was just another POTC clone then I would be mad.

 

[IzzyB]

Well it is clear to me that we'll never see things eye to eye, probably due to our different thinking process, which it is fine... The point I wanted to make was that when you are "good" at something, most people will expect the best from you when dealing with that subject or thing you are good at. Here you got Frozen, a ride that was already built except for the S bend in the beginning, and lets not forget they were having problems with boats getting stuck. You would think a 60 year old company that have built many boat rides, would not be dealing with situations like this, you would think they are expert by now on simple boat rides. Same with AAs, Disney is known for the best AAs in the business, although the projected faces and movement might be new technologies (even though SDMT have used projected faces already, and when it comes to movement, I'll never forget the preshow AA for Time Keeper show at MK), but my point is, make sure the new AA has been well tested before you put the "Show Ready" stamp on it... why? because you are the best on AAs. Then you got the wait times and FP+ vs. Stand by... look! We all knew about the low capacity, also I'm reading here that Maelstrom already had problems with the boats (but I can see how it could be handle back then, since the guest flow was lower), so my thought process would be "If I have such a strong IP, which guarantees me automatic success. Perhaps Maelstrom is not the ride that will be able to handle the heavy demand of the IP we are working on", but that's just me... I consider that rational thinking "Hmm trouble ahead, let me see how can I approach this situation in a different way".
The world knew about the problems ahead, except for the company itself... they were completely clueless about the ride's Facts and Problems, or were they? and that's what gets to me. ROL, so I hear they were having trouble controlling the barges and so on, well! it most be because water moves. I would think this is the very 1st situation to bring to the table before getting deep into the idea. Well! news flash! wind blows, so before they invest so much into drones technologies, please take a look at the "wind blowing" subject.
So when you talk about Kong, I was expecting problems because it is new tech for them and it's the 1st of it's kind, just like Fallon will be and F&F.... same thing I am expecting from Cobra's Curse, it's a 1st for BGT, maybe Mako because it's a record breaking ride here... maybe? but to get back to your point, IF!!! TF at USF (which it was sold to me as a clone from USH) would've had problem like Frozen at opening month, then I would be the 1st to say "WTF Universal". So my joke about Avatar was, if they are building ANOTHER soaring type and boat ride then expect trouble because it just seems like they can't get right what they're already familiar with. If Disney would build a new attraction similar to Spiderman technology then, yes! I would expect some problems because it is all new to the company, but if I start hearing that now Soaring Around The World is having technical difficulties every 30mins.... then I am sorry, but that's just something I can't find excuses for.

Your argument fails in that you understand if it is a new tech it may fail, yet RoL is a new tech and yet they don't get a pass for that one? To me it seems Disney does everything wrong in your eyes and Universal does no wrong. Which I personally think both companies make their fair share of good and bad decisions. Disney just happens to be doing more bad decisions lately, but at one point Universal was doing that.

I completely agree and you will not get an argument from me that Disney was VERY dumb for putting Frozen where they did. I said from day one this would be a disaster. that the capacity sucked and world showcase was not the place for this. Now it seems operations knew there was issues with this ride and it seems Imagineers didn't know this. Again, dumb dumb dumb that the right hand didn't talk to the left hand. Disney was wrong for doing this on all accounts.

However, we are where we are now and we are rating the final product. Putting aside all the negatives we have stated a million times, it is a good little ride. It seems they had some dumb moments like the S bend not working, some AA issues, and even the boat issues. But all companies have these dumb moments. Teebin talked about one of them with Kong and the ramp from outside to inside and I know he has mentioned in the past that there are other ones that he will tell us about later. While trackless is a new tech for Kong it seems the communications is the issue which they had the SAME issue on Gringotts. So you think they would learn their lesson, but did not. Companies do stupid crap, it doesn't mean all of their future projects are doomed. That is what I was getting at. You can't doom one project because of the dumb crap they did with Frozen. Just like you can't doom Fallon because of the dumb communication crap they have now had on TWO of their projects.

 

[Badgeking]

Well it is clear to me that we'll never see things eye to eye, probably due to our different thinking process, which it is fine... The point I wanted to make was that when you are "good" at something, most people will expect the best from you when dealing with that subject or thing you are good at. Here you got Frozen, a ride that was already built except for the S bend in the beginning, and lets not forget they were having problems with boats getting stuck. You would think a 60 year old company that have built many boat rides, would not be dealing with situations like this, you would think they are expert by now on simple boat rides. Same with AAs, Disney is known for the best AAs in the business, although the projected faces and movement might be new technologies (even though SDMT have used projected faces already, and when it comes to movement, I'll never forget the preshow AA for Time Keeper show at MK), but my point is, make sure the new AA has been well tested before you put the "Show Ready" stamp on it... why? because you are the best on AAs. Then you got the wait times and FP+ vs. Stand by... look! We all knew about the low capacity, also I'm reading here that Maelstrom already had problems with the boats (but I can see how it could be handle back then, since the guest flow was lower), so my thought process would be "If I have such a strong IP, which guarantees me automatic success. Perhaps Maelstrom is not the ride that will be able to handle the heavy demand of the IP we are working on", but that's just me... I consider that rational thinking "Hmm trouble ahead, let me see how can I approach this situation in a different way".
The world knew about the problems ahead, except for the company itself... they were completely clueless about the ride's Facts and Problems, or were they? and that's what gets to me. ROL, so I hear they were having trouble controlling the barges and so on, well! it most be because water moves. I would think this is the very 1st situation to bring to the table before getting deep into the idea. Well! news flash! wind blows, so before they invest so much into drones technologies, please take a look at the "wind blowing" subject.
So when you talk about Kong, I was expecting problems because it is new tech for them and it's the 1st of it's kind, just like Fallon will be and F&F.... same thing I am expecting from Cobra's Curse, it's a 1st for BGT, maybe Mako because it's a record breaking ride here... maybe? but to get back to your point, IF!!! TF at USF (which it was sold to me as a clone from USH) would've had problem like Frozen at opening month, then I would be the 1st to say "WTF Universal". So my joke about Avatar was, if they are building ANOTHER soaring type and boat ride then expect trouble because it just seems like they can't get right what they're already familiar with. If Disney would build a new attraction similar to Spiderman technology then, yes! I would expect some problems because it is all new to the company, but if I start hearing that now Soaring Around The World is having technical difficulties every 30mins.... then I am sorry, but that's just something I can't find excuses for.

This is great! I still can't get over the fact that Disney, knowing that Maelstrom had issues, didn't fix them in a TWO YEAR downtime. They knew going into this project that it was going to be insanely popular right from the start. So, why in the world did they pick such a small capacity ride to cram it into?

Like you said, this is Disney. They have been making boat rides for years. They should know about the problems that CAN arise and try to prevent them before they do. If weight is an issue, what can be done to fix it? Surely evacing the ride because an e-stop is triggered due to weight is not the correctly solution.

I share the same fears you do with Avatar. Both rides are "clones" in terms of ride systems. However, Disney hasn't been proving themselves very well in the "clone" department lately. I mean, RoL is a night time water show with barges and water screens...something they have been using for a very long time with other night time shows like Fantasmic and World of Color.

When they create something like Test Track that is a piece of brand new technology, delays are to be expected (which they were...for over a year). However, when you are taking a preexisting ride system, tossing in some AA's and a new coat of paint, it should not be facing the downtime issues it is now. It's not new tech. It's something Disney has been working with for years. I think they tried to make this project for the cheapest amount they could in Disney standards ($150 million for a land is absurd when you are not designing a new ride system) and they are paying the price dearly for it now with bad press.

 

[IzzyB]

Oh and just so everyone knows, the fact that they are having these boat issues to me is dumb and Disney should have seen this. I by no means am giving them a pass on this one. They should have seen it. Now timing, AA, etc breakdowns I expected. I mean look at when Gringotts opened. So layover or not, those things are going to happen with any new ride that is not a straight clone. But the boat issue? Just dumb and they need to fix this ASAP.

My points were more that you can't say just because they are being dumb on Frozen that Avatar won't be ready until 2018.

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Oh and just so everyone knows, the fact that they are having these boat issues to me is dumb and Disney should have seen this. I by no means am giving them a pass on this one. They should have seen it. Now timing, AA, etc breakdowns I expected. I mean look at when Gringotts opened. So layover or not, those things are going to happen with any new ride that is not a straight clone. But the boat issue? Just dumb and they need to fix this ASAP.

I don't think there is an ASAP fix to such a boat problem. Short of deepening the waterway putting less people on the boat is the best fix for now. That puts them deeper (pun intended) in the capacity hole but what else can they do now?

 

[Ultranel]

To me it seems Disney does everything wrong in your eyes and Universal does no wrong.

Well they have given us what they promised for the last 5 yrs. 1 new attraction (big or small) a year, and they've done pretty well so far, but if you want me to tell you about the UNEXCUSABLE things UO has done. Well, well, well... where to begin.... oh yeah let start with an attraction I used to work at, Poseidon's Fury 2.0... After watching the original show Zeus vs. Poseidon, this new version of Poseidon vs. Darkenon.... Really? Darkenon? I wonder how long it took them to thought about that name? and what's with the B list actor on cheap Halloween costumes, no thanks. Such a beautiful building and they just destroyed the magic it used to have.
"Next stop on our tour" JPRA, all I'm going to say is thanks for the new skin but PURPLE? really? now it feels like I'm on a pissed off Barney ride. Google Image Dinosaurs please!!! MIB, haha this is a funny story, So! before MIB opened USF started working on ET to add an 4th seat on each road because I guess the "3 across" was not working well for families, plus "party of 3" is not very common for guest, so they fixed that and about a year later they opened their brand new ride with.... 3 across rows, just dumb. T2 3D, I won't spend much time on this... Update the damn movie already please. we are on T5 "I think" and you still stuck on 2 with old out dated 80's 3D, this is just a movie on a theater, by just changing the movie you get a new attraction, same theme but updated, new and fresh, is that so hard? Dragon Challenge, besides the big down grade of the queue, This whole thing of not dueling makes no sense at all... I understand the reasons why, but if you are going to make me go through a metal detector every single time I ride this, then there's no excuse why they are not dueling anymore, that should've been a temporary measure till they find an answer to the situation, and I think they did find it. Just plain stupid and it takes away the fun of it or purpose. Also I can't talk about this anymore because they fixed it but let me just say, it took them way too long to repaint the NYC backdrop at USF and those Dudley Hat Lamps on the bridge to JP... I mean those things went from red to faded pink, it was just awful to look at those year after year and think, Is management that blind? because you could see those from a plane. I can keep going.... oh yeah the Twister "Drive In Sign" with the WHITE painted crane arm, Really? you didn't have like leftover black paint, you know since most of the building was painted black inside... Like I said I can keep going.[/QUOTE]

 

[Galaxy Defender]

Well they have given us what they promised for the last 5 yrs. 1 new attraction (big or small) a year, and they've done pretty well so far, but if you want me to tell you about the UNEXCUSABLE things UO has done. Well, well, well... where to begin.... oh yeah let start with an attraction I used to work at, Poseidon's Fury 2.0... After watching the original show Zeus vs. Poseidon, this new version of Poseidon vs. Darkenon.... Really? Darkenon? I wonder how long it took them to thought about that name? and what's with the B list actor on cheap Halloween costumes, no thanks. Such a beautiful building and they just destroyed the magic it used to have.
"Next stop on our tour" JPRA, all I'm going to say is thanks for the new skin but PURPLE? really? now it feels like I'm on a pissed off Barney ride. Google Image Dinosaurs please!!! MIB, haha this is a funny story, So! before MIB opened USF started working on ET to add an 4th seat on each road because I guess the "3 across" was not working well for families, plus "party of 3" is not very common for guest, so they fixed that and about a year later they opened their brand new ride with.... 3 across rows, just dumb. T2 3D, I won't spend much time on this... Update the damn movie already please. we are on T5 "I think" and you still stuck on 2 with old out dated 80's 3D, this is just a movie on a theater, by just changing the movie you get a new attraction, same theme but updated, new and fresh, is that so hard? Dragon Challenge, besides the big down grade of the queue, This whole thing of not dueling makes no sense at all... I understand the reasons why, but if you are going to make me go through a metal detector every single time I ride this, then there's no excuse why they are not dueling anymore, that should've been a temporary measure till they find an answer to the situation, and I think they did find it. Just plain stupid and it takes away the fun of it or purpose. Also I can't talk about this anymore because they fixed it but let me just say, it took them way too long to repaint the NYC backdrop at USF and those Dudley Hat Lamps on the bridge to JP... I mean those things went from red to faded pink, it was just awful to look at those year after year and think, Is management that blind? because you could see those from a plane. I can keep going.... oh yeah the Twister "Drive In Sign" with the WHITE painted crane arm, Really? you didn't have like leftover black paint, you know since most of the building was painted black inside... Like I said I can keep going.

[/QUOTE]

Orlando theme parks can all use improvement. The theme park wars are providing money and motivation to make improvements. I look forward to seeing new and updated attractions. Any day I walk in to any of these parks is a good day.

 

[Nick]

I got a chance to ride this finally earlier today. I'll give a full review later, but I'm VERY mixed on it.

 

[Nick]

So, as I said, I finally got on this earlier (6/29). The stand-by wait was flipping back and forth between 90 and 120 mins while I was there. Thankfully, we had FP+ and only waited *maybe* 10 minutes. The capacity issues were evident as soon as we got to load and they told up only two adults per row. There was only 4 of us, 3 adults, 1 child, and we took up 2 rows of the boat. On a positive note, I asked how they had been doing with breakdowns and they said this had been their most consistent day of operation yet, with very few problems (I rode at about 7:30).

I had a weird set of expectations as mine were in the basement before it opened, but then once people rode it, it was all about how good it was. So I had to find a medium.

Basically, my overall thoughts are:

• Animatronics are amazing
• Better than Mermaid
• There was a few empty spots in the backwards section
• Lack of coherent story
• Too short
• Terrible Capacity
• Franchise deserves better
• Creative use of existing space
• The lift hill was incredibly loud/distracting (would've thought they'd have fixed that). Like Space Mountain level crap.
• Interior queue is a huge improvement

To be honest, given how everyone was talking so highly of this after it's debut, it actually failed to reach my slightly risen expectations. I waited only 10 minutes so I won't complain though. However, there's no wy i'd wait more than 20-25 minutes for this ride. It simply isn't worth it.

Final Assessment: Great AA's, creative use of the space, but to put it bluntly, I came off of the ride feeling to same way I felt when I came off of Empire of the Penguin... "That's it?".

 

[epcyclopedia]

About "Disney" knowing...

Disney knew that statistically World Showcase boat rides operate well under their capacity.

Within Disney it is a "fact" that all of their work is equally good and if guests aren't visiting an attraction it is because of location or moon phase or whatever.

There could not possibly be a popular World Showcase attraction.

 

[IzzyB]

So, as I said, I finally got on this earlier (6/29). The stand-by wait was flipping back and forth between 90 and 120 mins while I was there. Thankfully, we had FP+ and only waited *maybe* 10 minutes. The capacity issues were evident as soon as we got to load and they told up only two adults per row. There was only 4 of us, 3 adults, 1 child, and we took up 2 rows of the boat. On a positive note, I asked how they had been doing with breakdowns and they said this had been their most consistent day of operation yet, with very few problems (I rode at about 7:30).

I had a weird set of expectations as mine were in the basement before it opened, but then once people rode it, it was all about how good it was. So I had to find a medium.

Basically, my overall thoughts are:

• Animatronics are amazing
• Better than Mermaid
• There was a few empty spots in the backwards section
• Lack of coherent story
• Too short
• Terrible Capacity
• Franchise deserves better
• Creative use of existing space
• The lift hill was incredibly loud/distracting (would've thought they'd have fixed that). Like Space Mountain level crap.
• Interior queue is a huge improvement

To be honest, given how everyone was talking so highly of this after it's debut, it actually failed to reach my slightly risen expectations. I waited only 10 minutes so I won't complain though. However, there's no wy i'd wait more than 20-25 minutes for this ride. It simply isn't worth it.

Final Assessment: Great AA's, creative use of the space, but to put it bluntly, I came off of the ride feeling to same way I felt when I came off of Empire of the Penguin... "That's it?".

I think I could have written this review. I didn't expect much, but when it opened people said it was good, I raised my expectation and I came off feeling, it was OK. I like you waited about 10 minutes, so it was worth it. I would not wait more than 25 minutes for this thing. I say the same about Mine Train too. Cute ride, not worth the wait and the capacity sucks lol

 

[epcyclopedia]

Anyone want to do the math to figure out what the wait time would be without FP+?

It should be operating with about 80% of the capacity allocated to FP+.

It's running at a 120min wait. Mathematically that suggests the wait only like 400 people but that seems way low - suggesting it's taking fewer FP guests than the ratio Toy Story was running at prior to the third track.

So I dunno, I guess we'd need to know the number of people unwilling to wait more than 15mins who use FP who would not out of the standby line.

I'd guess without FP it'd be about an hour.

 

[IzzyB]

Anyone want to do the math to figure out what the wait time would be without FP+?

It should be operating with about 80% of the capacity allocated to FP+.

It's running at a 120min wait. Mathematically that suggests the wait only like 400 people but that seems way low - suggesting it's taking fewer FP guests than the ratio Toy Story was running at prior to the third track.

So I dunno, I guess we'd need to know the number of people unwilling to wait more than 15mins who use FP who would not out of the standby line.

I'd guess without FP it'd be about an hour.

I think that is a hard calculation to run. Because there are so many factors, like you said the people who have FP that would ride with a wait vs. who would not ride without a wait. But there is also people without FPs that today would not wait 120 minutes but may wait 60 or 90. So it may add more people to the line that would not be in that line today.

 

[PINK]

The AAs are amazing! I can't wait to ride. The transition to let it go turned me off and I shut the video down because I didnt want to ruin when I ride.

Frozen was extremely popular for 2 years. It deserves better than this. When Frozen took off, or at least when everything was completely sold out, Disney should have drew up a better ride than a layover of an old low capacity ride.

 

[WAJAS]

Dang guys. Can we cut down on the paragraphs?

I'm all "TLR" over here.

 

[hishedale]

Watch your fatshaming everyone.
You don't want PC people to attack us all, do you?

 

[Speed]

Sitting in line right now, do they prioritize FP before standby like on Space Mountain? I have barely moved so far