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HHN Drink Changes

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
Quite frankly I find it insulting as someone who has been in those spots to plainly label everyone something because of some people you've met. Most people actually work in the parks doing regular jobs that aren't entertainment. Many of them do so at Universal, many do so at Disney.

There's also a reason that they are very much on the side of "protect the scareactors! no more incidents!". Guests are stupid, drunk or high. Why don't you go be a scareactor and tell me how you like getting punched in the face every night before you make fun of what they do. And no, i'm not exaggerating, some people do get punched in the face every night. Sometimes more than once.
You act like i've no experience with the event. :P

And why would anyone stay at a job where they're punched in the face repeatedly and why is this not on the news?
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,869
Orlando
You act like i've no experience with the event. :p

And why would anyone stay at a job where they're punched in the face repeatedly and why is this not on the news?
A lot of things don't make the news. You yourself brought it up recently when talking about people jumping from the Contemporary.
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
A lot of things don't make the news. You yourself brought it up recently when talking about people jumping from the Contemporary.
Just people's own justifications ;)

But seriously, if it's as bad as you say the event is irreparably broken and for the safety of the cast should be canceled.

If your justification of getting punched nightly is "but the event has to go on!" then priorities are really far off and wrong.

Like i said, multiple issues combining to exacerbate things.

(Note: Real simple fix is to design it so guests cant punch the actors.. or design boxing masks into their costumes.. You didnt think I'd let Aiello go blameless in this did you?)
 

MattA

Rookie
May 15, 2016
296
Orlando, FL
Just people's own justifications ;)

But seriously, if it's as bad as you say the event is irreparably broken and for the safety of the cast should be canceled.

If your justification of getting punched nightly is "but the event has to go on!" then priorities are really far off and wrong.

Like i said, multiple issues combining to exacerbate things.

(Note: Real simple fix is to design it so guests cant punch the actors.. or design boxing masks into their costumes.. You didnt think I'd let Aiello go blameless in this did you?)
What's with your vendetta against HHN? You seem to try and do whatever possible to get it shut down. I'd like to know what poor experience led you to have this opinion.
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
What's with your vendetta against HHN? You seem to try and do whatever possible to get it shut down. I'd like to know what poor experience led you to have this opinion.
I'm suggesting it's not as bad as hysteria suggests.

If you think it is that bad unsafe for the actors, then yes it should be shut down.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,869
Orlando
Just people's own justifications ;)

But seriously, if it's as bad as you say the event is irreparably broken and for the safety of the cast should be canceled.

If your justification of getting punched nightly is "but the event has to go on!" then priorities are really far off and wrong.

Like i said, multiple issues combining to exacerbate things.

(Note: Real simple fix is to design it so guests cant punch the actors.. or design boxing masks into their costumes.. You didnt think I'd let Aiello go blameless in this did you?)
I never defended anything, there's a lot of things HHN could/should do better.

Going back to my original point though, it's not like it's just some person who can't handle themselves busting someone for something they didn't do. Safety of the performers needs to be a what ops looks out for. They can rarely stop things from happening, but they will track you down if they see it happening.
 

Nick

Staff member
Moderator
Sep 22, 2011
20,869
Orlando
And the ops people are not the usual TM staff no sane one would take the pay cut to work it.
Seriously this is getting pathetic. Give it a break with your HHN hate.

The topic is HHN Drink changes. Unless you have something to add that's on topic, please kindly exit the thread. :wave:
 
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Frank Drackman

Premium Member
Dec 20, 2012
2,295
Davenport
Gasoline on a fire. I'd link my tweet but it is incredibly not family friendly. Yes, I was f'ing stupid enough to try it again,

We have entered surreal territory. As in having law enforcement pull me and my daughter out of the Simpson's preshow room (where people were actually eating turkey legs, I'm talking the preshow room with the closing doors) claiming that they had multiple complaints of the two of us touching scareactors in houses and then putting us on a Simpson's car all by our selves. Oddly enough, we had not done any houses at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. None.

I was 2 whole beer in, so maybe I had blacked out? Seriously, WTF?

We left, again. Makes me reconsider my Thanksgivings plan (2 deluxe rooms at portofino, Tchoup Chop, and BiCE). And my APs.

I absolutely will NOT!!!!! be attending HHNs again this year. They have lost their freakin' minds!
I'm sorry to hear that, Dave.

Unfortunately, you aren't the only person who's experienced this overwrought treatment from security. I've heard stories from seasoned vets that were accused of things they didn't do. It's sorta funny because they need to be overprotective of their scareactors, but they also need to be mindful of who they accuse (and how it comes across).

Completely different situation, but Drew and I were hanging around Festival and saw one of the dancing girls get approached by a couple of young teens and asked for a photo. She allowed it, and they went ahead and leaned up against the stage for the photo. Out of nowhere, one of the TM's comes barging in yelling "GET OFF THE STAGE. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE DO YOU NOT GET ON THE STAGE"...

Really?

The teens were generally shocked, and the scareactor seemed to try to tell the TM it was cool, but that's not a good look at all.

So I can only imagine the situation when it's something that's a more serious issue/accusation.

I did see UO reached out to you, though. Hopefully they take care of it and make it right with you.
Sorry to hear as well Dave. I also missed quoting a post about scareactors empowerment. I know I posted somewhere about how I noticed they were not taking any crap this year, how I saw an actor (on stilts) pointing someone out to security.

The said thing I think I see from what is being described is that people naturally profile based on their personal experiences. I would think this is a bad traight for security....I feel I fly under the radar when with my family and well over it when they go back to the room and I stay with my camera...but I hate to think some ticked off blogger (just making up a hypothetical) could see someone they do not like, they report them just to wreck their night...security goes in with this ‘all guilty regardless, over no sign of admitting you were wrong’ mentality....
 

UniversalRBLX

Veteran Member
Nov 3, 2015
2,813
Cabana Bae
Quite shocking how theme parks rarely make the news. If the alligator incident didn't occur the same time as Pulse, it probably wont have been reported.
 

Legacy

Veteran Member
Jul 27, 2015
6,594
I think there's a couple disparate contributors to the chaos this year..

A) Scareactors are.. "empowered" - i'm not sure that's the right way to describe it - to report things thanks to a lot of press attention last year about injuries and assaults for entertainment during the event. I'm not at all the type to blame the victim, but I've also met the average scareactor. These are not people who could survive the normal day to day park operation and the amount of crap guests heap on regular TM's. Not all of course, but enough special snowflakes that i could easily see it getting out of hand and over-reporting for every bruised ego or imagined slight.

B) The event workers aren't regular TMs. They were hired last month or so and wont be there next month. Again, many couldn't handle a normal park guest contact shift. Fed the "protect the scareactors! no more incidents!" cry from management and you've got clueless folks being ultra overzealous while also missing the actual legit incidents due to inexperience.

C) No guests at the TM preview. This event usually culls the herd of TMs and their Guests who are willing to go to the event an act like idiots. One swoop and off they go in bulk. Without the guest portion of the event, fewer came, fewer acted a fool, but there's still the same ratio as any other year in the population. Now we get to deal with them throughout the run of the event until they're official caught. This contributes to A and B.

Illustration:

Regular park actor, doing a regular shift. Dumb guest grabs their butt. Regular actor removes the perv's hand, smiles for the photo, whispers to the greeter they work with multiple times a week for many months - that greeter radios the lead for the current actors on set and follows said perv until security can get them. Actor and handler go back stage and fill out forms, complain a bit, give statements, go back to work on their next set and contemplate if expulsion and banning is enough or if they want to press charges.

Scareactor who only works the event gets a butt-grab. Either waits until the end of set to say anything to anyone (which can be much later) or storms off set and has to be found by coordinators to find out what happened. Assuming they're even in the area. Can't really fault them for slow reporting, because they're mostly unwatched when out on sets and live by this "other scareactors will help" sort of code of conduct. The assigned handlers have, from my experience, proven useless and can be found having a snack or talking to their friends during a set. "The guest was wearing a hat! A red one!" Ya know, 30mins after the encounter... so all guests in the park with red hat are now suspects. Scareactor cries about being violated for a few hours while missing sets and getting paid for it (this sounds insensitive, but i've seen people milk thing far more trivial in the big scheme of life.) Any guests with red hats are reported by the rumor-mill excitable attendants and harassed by security. They never find anyone who they can prove actually did it. The aforementioned guest is actually wearing an orange visor and off groping someone else for a few more nights.

Extreme examples, but sadly plausible and why the issues persist an multiply.
Okay, now I’m offended by this.

A large percentage of scareactors are regular TMs that do regular shifts during the year. Ops are selected by department managers from regular TMs. It may not be the majority, but it’s enough to count. So, right there your presumptions are incorrect.

Scareactors have ALWAYS been encouraged to report abuse, and abuse has always happened. In Catacombs, I personally averaged four a night. I’m 6’1”, 210 lbs, and would only report it if I was actively abused, ie grabbed or punched. One guy I reported was an NFL player who wrenched my neck. The house itself would report about five an hour. I was the only person who missed a set in that house the entire run and that was one set because Security wanted to know if I wanted to press formal charges against the NFL player.

In Screamhouse in 2002, we averaged about the same. In fact that year, one girl was punched three times in one night across (across 2 sets). She was 18 years old and a first year scareactor. After getting punched twice, she went back on set to get punched again. All three times it was grown-ass men doing the hitting. She came back the next night.

So to imply that the protecting of scareactors is new (or that the abuse of scareactors is a recent thing) is insulting. There are about three hundred scareactors working a night four eight hours scaring at least 5,000 people an hour. By saying “average scareactor,” you talk like 100 performers are taking half the night off because people are mean.

Scareactors regularly put up with actual, physical abuse on a routine basis. The ones who can’t hack it typically don’t last past opening weekend. If you haven’t scared or had conversations about scaring with more than one or two people, stop talking out of your ass.

Scareactors don’t report abuse without a reason. And the process is “this happened, that person did it, I want them trespassed, I’m going back on set.” Don’t act like you know anything about this process, because it’s apparent that from your perspective scareactors should grow a pair and appreciate to get groped or assaulted by assholes.
 

UK-Trigg

Veteran Member
Sep 23, 2012
3,274
UK
Gasoline on a fire. I'd link my tweet but it is incredibly not family friendly. Yes, I was f'ing stupid enough to try it again,

We have entered surreal territory. As in having law enforcement pull me and my daughter out of the Simpson's preshow room (where people were actually eating turkey legs, I'm talking the preshow room with the closing doors) claiming that they had multiple complaints of the two of us touching scareactors in houses and then putting us on a Simpson's car all by our selves. Oddly enough, we had not done any houses at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. None.

I was 2 whole beer in, so maybe I had blacked out? Seriously, WTF?

We left, again. Makes me reconsider my Thanksgivings plan (2 deluxe rooms at portofino, Tchoup Chop, and BiCE). And my APs.

I absolutely will NOT!!!!! be attending HHNs again this year. They have lost their freakin' minds!
This really saddens me......

For it to happen once is bad enough but twice is tantamount to bullying, the over zealous policing of the event is not on and needs addressing, I hope you report this Dave.

I know how much you enjoy HHN and the resort in general Dave # so to hear that a friend of mine is so pissed at the treatment received that he wont be attending the event again makes me sad and angry. I wouldn't blame you either for cancelling your ressies for thanks giving, things like this sit like a stone in the stomach and sometimes voting with your feet is the way to go.


I understand they have had issues in the past with guests abusing scare actors but come on Universal lets not colour everyone with the same brush. Maybe a well written letter is in order pointing out the issues that seem to be putting a dampener on the event for some people.
 

Disneyhead

Legendary Member
Jul 24, 2008
10,788
Orlando, FL
I'm sorry to hear that, Dave.

Unfortunately, you aren't the only person who's experienced this overwrought treatment from security. I've heard stories from seasoned vets that were accused of things they didn't do. It's sorta funny because they need to be overprotective of their scareactors, but they also need to be mindful of who they accuse (and how it comes across).

Completely different situation, but Drew and I were hanging around Festival and saw one of the dancing girls get approached by a couple of young teens and asked for a photo. She allowed it, and they went ahead and leaned up against the stage for the photo. Out of nowhere, one of the TM's comes barging in yelling "GET OFF THE STAGE. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE DO YOU NOT GET ON THE STAGE"...

Really?

The teens were generally shocked, and the scareactor seemed to try to tell the TM it was cool, but that's not a good look at all.

So I can only imagine the situation when it's something that's a more serious issue/accusation.

I did see UO reached out to you, though. Hopefully they take care of it and make it right with you.
I have yet to respond to Universal. I have had a really long day that involved being in Sarasota by 10am and sleeping 3hrs at the rest area on I-75 on my way back to Orlando.
 
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Lucky Planet

Veteran Member
Sep 23, 2013
2,626
Gasoline on a fire. I'd link my tweet but it is incredibly not family friendly. Yes, I was f'ing stupid enough to try it again,

We have entered surreal territory. As in having law enforcement pull me and my daughter out of the Simpson's preshow room (where people were actually eating turkey legs, I'm talking the preshow room with the closing doors) claiming that they had multiple complaints of the two of us touching scareactors in houses and then putting us on a Simpson's car all by our selves. Oddly enough, we had not done any houses at all. Zero. Zip. Nada. None.

I was 2 whole beer in, so maybe I had blacked out? Seriously, WTF?

We left, again. Makes me reconsider my Thanksgivings plan (2 deluxe rooms at portofino, Tchoup Chop, and BiCE). And my APs.

I absolutely will NOT!!!!! be attending HHNs again this year. They have lost their freakin' minds!
I'm sorry to hear that, Dave.

Unfortunately, you aren't the only person who's experienced this overwrought treatment from security. I've heard stories from seasoned vets that were accused of things they didn't do. It's sorta funny because they need to be overprotective of their scareactors, but they also need to be mindful of who they accuse (and how it comes across).

Completely different situation, but Drew and I were hanging around Festival and saw one of the dancing girls get approached by a couple of young teens and asked for a photo. She allowed it, and they went ahead and leaned up against the stage for the photo. Out of nowhere, one of the TM's comes barging in yelling "GET OFF THE STAGE. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE DO YOU NOT GET ON THE STAGE"...

Really?

The teens were generally shocked, and the scareactor seemed to try to tell the TM it was cool, but that's not a good look at all.

So I can only imagine the situation when it's something that's a more serious issue/accusation.

I did see UO reached out to you, though. Hopefully they take care of it and make it right with you.
This is really scary. I go every week and i hang out in the zones to take pics, i always hope that no one working is bothered by people that hang around the zones. I always try to be as invisible as possible But i wonder if actors get annoyed or not. And it would be horrible to be acused of stuff that u didnt do. Specially hhn veteran fans that follow the rules and dont cause trouble. It would be crushing.
Something that bothers me a lot is when people mess with the actors or use flash in front of coordinators and they dont get in any trouble or get a verbal warning. It is scary to think they confused you with a bad person.
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
Okay, now I’m offended by this.

A large percentage of scareactors are regular TMs that do regular shifts during the year. Ops are selected by department managers from regular TMs. It may not be the majority, but it’s enough to count. So, right there your presumptions are incorrect.

Scareactors have ALWAYS been encouraged to report abuse, and abuse has always happened. In Catacombs, I personally averaged four a night. I’m 6’1”, 210 lbs, and would only report it if I was actively abused, ie grabbed or punched. One guy I reported was an NFL player who wrenched my neck. The house itself would report about five an hour. I was the only person who missed a set in that house the entire run and that was one set because Security wanted to know if I wanted to press formal charges against the NFL player.

In Screamhouse in 2002, we averaged about the same. In fact that year, one girl was punched three times in one night across (across 2 sets). She was 18 years old and a first year scareactor. After getting punched twice, she went back on set to get punched again. All three times it was grown-ass men doing the hitting. She came back the next night.

So to imply that the protecting of scareactors is new (or that the abuse of scareactors is a recent thing) is insulting. There are about three hundred scareactors working a night four eight hours scaring at least 5,000 people an hour. By saying “average scareactor,” you talk like 100 performers are taking half the night off because people are mean.

Scareactors regularly put up with actual, physical abuse on a routine basis. The ones who can’t hack it typically don’t last past opening weekend. If you haven’t scared or had conversations about scaring with more than one or two people, stop talking out of your ass.

Scareactors don’t report abuse without a reason. And the process is “this happened, that person did it, I want them trespassed, I’m going back on set.” Don’t act like you know anything about this process, because it’s apparent that from your perspective scareactors should grow a pair and appreciate to get groped or assaulted by assholes.
Ya know, you're just confirming the problems have been known about and the actors are just putting up with it and there isn't enough follow through on removing guests. Any contact should be grounds for trespass. It should be reported every time and the guests should be removed every time.

There should be processes in place to handle the frequency which it happens.

Really, the company should be doing something to prevent it from happening.

This is not some highly trained and specialized position where you're combat trained.

Remember Blackfish? Where we learned putting people that look good in swimsuits into pools with Orcas resulted in countless injuries over the years?

Remember how OSHA was like "screw your show, no one is allowed in the pool" ??

Maybe it's time for OSHA to intervene.
 

Lucky Planet

Veteran Member
Sep 23, 2013
2,626
Things are gonna getso bad that they are gonna have to put every single actor behind fences or gates or something.

Or maybe just prohibit actors from getting too close to people
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
Things are gonna getso bad that they are gonna have to put every single actor behind fences or gates or something.

Or maybe just prohibit actors from getting too close to people
It really does bring up the question of why the in-your-face scares aren't puppets or mannequins or something.

It's not like using such items would be below their standards. The houses are full of static bodies.

Like, why does a living person need to be close enough to get punched in a position that gets punched multiple times a night?
 

Legacy

Veteran Member
Jul 27, 2015
6,594
Things are gonna getso bad that they are gonna have to put every single actor behind fences or gates or something.

Or maybe just prohibit actors from getting too close to people
That’s where the whole “Boo and Skidoo”/“Scream and Scram” training comes from.

The whole point of scaring is to trigger a heightened emotional response. It’s supposed to cause fight or flight. The only way to not let any scareactors get assaulted is to either A) put everyone behind protection or distance and therefore ruin the simulated danger that causes the scare (everyone complaining about Fallen) or B ) stop scaring.

If I reported every time I got hit, my four a night average would likely jump to thirty a night. Hits, slaps, brushes, happen. Getting hit as a reaction is different than getting assaulted (or ambushed, another common attempt).
 

epcyclopedia

BANNED
Jul 13, 2011
3,824
Tampa, FL
That’s where the whole “Boo and Skidoo”/“Scream and Scram” training comes from.

The whole point of scaring is to trigger a heightened emotional response. It’s supposed to cause fight or flight. The only way to not let any scareactors get assaulted is to either A) put everyone behind protection or distance and therefore ruin the simulated danger that causes the scare (everyone complaining about Fallen) or B ) stop scaring.

If I reported every time I got hit, my four a night average would likely jump to thirty a night. Hits, slaps, brushes, happen. Getting hit as a reaction is different than getting assaulted (or ambushed, another common attempt).
I'm pretty sure OSHA won't agree that you being injured in order to entertain people is acceptable.

We're not talking a freak accident or one off. We're taking nightly, as youve said.

It is not acceptable to expect people performing in HHN houses in a temporary job getting paid pennies to be subjected to such treatment under the purview of their employer.
 

Brian G.

Editor-in-Chief
Staff member
Administrator
Jan 21, 2008
20,568
Orlando, FL
I'm pretty sure OSHA won't agree that you being injured in order to entertain people is acceptable.

We're not talking a freak accident or one off. We're taking nightly, as youve said.

It is not acceptable to expect people performing in HHN houses in a temporary job getting paid pennies to be subjected to such treatment under the purview of their employer.
It’s not just a HHN problem. Any event that features tight quarter scares experiences this issue. HHN just happens to be the biggest event out of em all.

Time to move on from the soapbox.