Miami Wilds

[LewSpectre]

Miami does not draw a lot of its tourists from Middle America tho.. we are the gateway to South America and the Islands... if you visit a mall in South Florida it is filled with South Americans buying things in mass to take home with them. Spanish is the dominant language down here.... The draw would be the latin/south american tourist, which the area is already set up to service perfectly.. I love this idea.thinking it may be a great place for TOUR GROUPS to go, giving us a little relief at the parks in orlando...

 

[TylerDurden]

See my paragraph about proving their brand. Are South American tour groups going to go to Miami Wilds, or Disney World?

 

[Macfr3ak]

Heres the thing, though...

If youre from Montana and decide to take a major vacation to the besg theme parks in the world, are you going to book your plane tickets and hotel rooms to Orlando...or Miami? Miami is a great nightlife/beach destination, but when the theme park capital of the world is 3 hours north, its hard to justify a trip there for a theme park.

Do I think a regional-scale amusement park with roller coasters and flat rides would do well? Yes, because it would only need a local audience to be successful, and could survive off of Miami's current tourists as an add-on to their beach/nightlife vacation. But thats not what the theme park proposed to do here. It was going to have to be a full-scale immersive theme park that could only survive off of tourist visits (a la WDW). I mean, think about how much it costs to build and maintain a roller coaster vs a Spider-Man type attraction. The audience isnt right to justify costs like that.

The even bigger issue, aside from location and demographics, IMO, is the fact that you have a huge market leader in Disney. Universal and SeaWorld have done an admiral job of establishing their brands and yet they still do over 10 million less than MK on their best seasons. To enter into that already extremely competitive market with a brand that has not yet proven itself in the theme park domain is too risky in this climate. If the park developer had more successful locations from past ventures, it would be a little easier to break into this market, but this is a first-time thing. I knew from the start this would fall through.

A stadium, on the other hand, is something the state is not oversaturated with, nor is it part of a naturally competitive market. Not saying its a good call, but this is how Miami undoubtedly saw it.

GREAT way to look at it never looked at it from that point of view makes a lot of sense. Although i must say i do feel that the current tourism that stays in Miami could provide the tourist a theme park of that magnitude would require. You have Miami International airport and Ft Lauderdale airport in a reasonable distance (FTL obvioulsy much further) however the main source of tourism is the port of miami which is one of the busiest ports for cruises in the country. Families from all over the states come to get on cruises and then return from their cruise vacation and do local attractions (which arent many) like visiting the everglades and south beach i think people would have a much better option in a beefed up Zoo with rides. The zoo is not bad at all for the price you pay but it could be SO much better if you added attractions to it like roller coasters and flat rides... something similar to Busch Gardens... MAYBE on a smaller scale? although again i just think the area around it is much more attractive than Tampa and it could be made much nicer than the surroundings of Busch Gardens. It's also not crazy to think people from different parts of the country wouldnt think about taking a flight to Miami visiting the beach a theme park then driving up to orlando hitting the parks and heading home from orlando albeit a week vacation crazy but plausible. if the theme park made in miami were to be worth it in any way.. Again i know the company proposing it is not proven. But they have the intellectual properties to make such a theme park in ICE age an RIO etc.. and going off the concept art provided i mean even if they didnt match up to i think if they would've just come close to it, it couldve been a MAJOR hit.

When i went super bowl weekend there was A LOT of tourist in the park. Canadians, Central/South Americans, Europeans and of course locals. I walked through it just thinking of the potential it has with all its abundance of space and land and the huge gaps between areas that make the park drag. If it were something like busch gardens it would definitely be something i'd do VERY often. (not saying i'd trade it for Universal) just something that i'd like to visit many times on top of my visits that i make to Universal.

 

[coreyt]

this plan isn't dead. they combined the two plans, the dino park and the Fox theme park. there is still hope.

 

[TylerDurden]

this plan isn't dead. they combined the two plans, the dino park and the Fox theme park. there is still hope.

If I had to guess, those are the two most expensive aspects of the proposal. In what world are cheap projects turned down for more expensive ones?

It could happen, but I find it unlikely and unfortunately I somewhat work in this space

 

[DufflesMcGee]

If I had to guess, those are the two most expensive aspects of the proposal. In what world are cheap projects turned down for more expensive ones?

It could happen, but I find it unlikely and unfortunately I somewhat work in this space

Tourism in the last 3 years have increased the amount of jobs by nearly 100k. The power that disney and UO have to attract people to Fl is outstanding. The city wants to enter a market where there is long run growth not only for the industry but also for the city. As you attract more people to a certain area demands in all sectors tend to increase. Miami doesn't have a problem with tourism, but they can certainly boost it to a new degree if this project works out

 

[TylerDurden]

Tourism in the last 3 years have increased the amount of jobs by nearly 100k. The power that disney and UO have to attract people to Fl is outstanding. The city wants to enter a market where there is long run growth not only for the industry but also for the city. As you attract more people to a certain area demands in all sectors tend to increase. Miami doesn't have a problem with tourism, but they can certainly boost it to a new degree if this project works out

The problem is attracting the people in the first place, and I've already explained why thats an uphill battle (just a few posts above yours). Again, not saying it WONT happen, just that at this stage it seems unlikely.

 

[IzzyB]

I will just say this, not all tourist places allow amusement parks to thrive. Myrtle Beach is a perfect example. So maybe the market research is showing that the people that go to Miami won't go to a theme park?

I am not against this idea, but I can also see why the city might be hesitant.

 

[Hockeyman55]

Forget about Miami, build this in the West Palm Beach area so I dont have to drive as far

 

[UK-Trigg]

I think Miamia Wilds could thrive of the existing Orlando parks. A lot of travellers get the bug and end going to Orlando every year, after a few visits they still head for Florida but look to broaden their horizons. This is wear trips to The Keys, Miami, Cocoa, Clearwater start for said visitor. Many travellers fly into Miami stay a few days then head up to Orlando.

 

[TylerDurden]

I think Miamia Wilds could thrive of the existing Orlando parks. A lot of travellers get the bug and end going to Orlando every year, after a few visits they still head for Florida but look to broaden their horizons. This is wear trips to The Keys, Miami, Cocoa, Clearwater start for said visitor. Many travellers fly into Miami stay a few days then head up to Orlando.

"Broaden their horizons" as in "do something other than theme parks this vacation". What do you think most tourists would rather do? Go down to Miami after (or before) a week of theme park-ing for the beach and to relax? Or go down to Miami to spend another $80/person to get into yet another theme park 3 hours from the world's #1 tourist destination?

Now, I realize that Busch Gardens does just fine being in Tampa and also being a successful theme park. Theres a difference, however.
1. Busch Gardens grew organically, and started out as a small attraction in itself before Disney expanded and Universal/SeaWorld came into the picture. It has established itself with time, and was not opened at a time when the competition was fierce.
2. Because of Reason #1, Busch Gardens is a well-known park with a good name. It is a proven concept people are willing to travel to because they know they can depend on it.
3. Most importantly is that Busch Gardens is very similar in set-up and operation to a regional theme park. Nothing too state-of-the-art. No licensing fees to be paid. No incredibly costly special effects to run every day and no hyper-detailed environments. Its got some nice theming here and there, a zoo aspect, and bare-bones roller coasters. There's no Spider-Man, no high-tech shows, etc that are hugely advanced/expensive and require a massive return on investment. It can easily pay its relatively low operating costs with the audience it has.

Yet let's look at this Paramount Park. Opening as an unknown brand against the biggest players in the theme park industry right now (at least in North America) when they'rs runninh at their finest...to be one of the first locations of this type of park with no proof of concept. And most of all, will rely on extensive theming, massive special-effect oriented attractions requiring expenisve upkeep, fees to be paid to movie-based attractions, etc...all of which are costs that will need to have ENORMOUS attendance numbers just to be off set (God knows what it'll take to turn a profit). Miami isnt a proven theme park destination, and I doubt the city will want to find out if it is one using this massive park as its first chance. Theres a lot going against it, unfortunately. The last time a major theme park opened up, it was in a similar beach-oriented setting...it's now empty.

 

[Miketheboss]

I feel like a water park instead will do well. I rather pay $50 admission than go to rapids, which is far, and the crowd isn't good.

 

[UNIrd]

They have half a million residents in Miami but I think like what..13-14 million visiting each year? If they can keep the other animal-centric attractions like Jungle Island and Miami Seaquarium afloat for YEARS at $30+ a pop, there's definitely enough business for a worthwhile theme park.

 

[TylerDurden]

They have half a million residents in Miami but I think like what..13-14 million visiting each year? If they can keep the other animal-centric attractions like Jungle Island and Miami Seaquarium afloat for YEARS at $30+ a pop, there's definitely enough business for a worthwhile theme park.

Animal parks are cheaper to get into, and are more accessible. Imagine what IOA or Magic Kingdom would be like without tourists. They'd be a lot emptier and a lot less profitable.

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I feel like a water park instead will do well. I rather pay $50 admission than go to rapids, which is far, and the crowd isn't good.

I agree with this; waterparks are cheaper, smaller, and can stay afloat through purely local business. Plus, the mother of all waterparks isnt right up the road.

 

[UNIrd]

Animal parks are cheaper to get into, and are more accessible. Imagine what IOA or Magic Kingdom would be like without tourists. They'd be a lot emptier and a lot less profitable.

So you're saying there wouldn't be tourists in Miami? Are you familiar with Miami as a tourist destination currently?

 

[TylerDurden]

So you're saying there wouldn't be tourists in Miami? Are you familiar with Miami as a tourist destination currently?

That's not what I'm saying, and I've repeated this point ad nauseam. Tourists who are going to take time off work, pay air/gas fare, look for hotels, etc. for a theme park trip are going to go to Orlando, plain and simple. The tourists that are in Miami aren't there for theme parks (obviously). And there's no reason to think that all of a sudden, tourists are going to either
a) pass up a vacation to Orlando to go to a theme park in Miami instead of Disney or Universal
b) add on a trip to Miami from Orlando just to go to more theme parks

If we were talking about some type of theme park with proof of concept already, and maybe more of a familiar name, I'd be less cynical. But the fact is nobody's seen a park like this before, and it's unlikely that the people who are going to want to go there will do so in favor of the greatest theme parks in the world just up the highway.


Look at it this way...theme parks work in a couple of different ways. You have your massive world-class theme parks. These are like Disney, and no matter where you build them (even in the middle of a swamp), people will come just because of the name. The Miami Wilds project has no such brand power.

Then you have theme parks like Universal and SeaWorld who have a great product, but not quite strong enough to draw people in from over the country. That's why these parks are placed in already-populated areas...to piggyback off the other attractions in the immediate area and prove that they have a great vacation-worthy destination. These places can ONLY thrive in the right type of market (for instance, Universal and SeaWorld and the other theme parks in Orlando work in conjunction with Disney World because there's NOT MUCH else to do in Central Florida...they round out a vacation). Miami Wilds would push the market into over-saturation. A point of diminishing returns, if you will--you put in one too many theme parks and it just gets in people's way, especially when it's a first-of-its-kind...not to mention the tourists who vacation in Orlando and who vacation in Miami are generally on two pretty different vacations.

Lastly you have regional amusement parks, relatively cheap, un-themed parks that thrive off of local business and day trips. Six Flags, Worlds of Fun, things like that. THIS, IMO, is something Miami could use. Because there are plenty of people who live there who would most likely attend this type of park, as well as plenty of tourists who would be interested in a cheaper amusement park experience. Where I can see many people coming to Miami but skipping out on this (probably expensive) high-end theme park in favor of Disney, there's not much of a comparison between a Six Flags and Magic Kingdom...there's enough differentiation to overcome the already crowded theme park market. A cheaper park would also rely less on tourism that can only be drawn from my first two examples. Another thing is that locals to Central/Southern Florida would be more likely to visit (and most importantly, REPEAT visit) a park that is very much unlike what they (we) already have (Disney, Universal, etc.).

Theme parks are a huge risk. I'm not going to pretend to know everything about the theme park business, and everything I've said in this thread is pure conjecture on my part. But let's just say that if I was Miami and was faced with this huge risk of building a multi-million dollar theme park that has no built-in brand name attached, these points are things I would heavily consider.

 

[IzzyB]

They have half a million residents in Miami but I think like what..13-14 million visiting each year? If they can keep the other animal-centric attractions like Jungle Island and Miami Seaquarium afloat for YEARS at $30+ a pop, there's definitely enough business for a worthwhile theme park.

And 14 million tourist visit Myrtle Beach every year and we all know what happened when they tried to open a theme park. Just because there are a lot of tourist doesn't mean they would visit a quality theme park. And cheaper things like zoos are way easier to keep afloat. Most cities have a zoo, but most cities do not have a Theme Park.

 

[ralphoutloud]

"Broaden their horizons" as in "do something other than theme parks this vacation". What do you think most tourists would rather do? Go down to Miami after (or before) a week of theme park-ing for the beach and to relax? Or go down to Miami to spend another $80/person to get into yet another theme park 3 hours from the world's #1 tourist destination?

Orlando isn't the worlds #1 tourist destination firstly, and Miami has a lot more to offer than Orlando. If they can get an Orlando-style theme park, surely it would detract from people going to the Orlando parks when you can get a similar experience for probably less money and have a much cooler city to explore, a world-class beach, shopping and dining.

Miami is not Myrtle Beach.

 

[Macfr3ak]

i guess you dont understand if you dont live in miami

 

[Brian G.]

I live in Miami and I get Tyler's rationale...