Miami Wilds

[TylerDurden]

Orlando isn't the worlds #1 tourist destination firstly, and Miami has a lot more to offer than Orlando. If they can get an Orlando-style theme park, surely it would detract from people going to the Orlando parks when you can get a similar experience for probably less money and have a much cooler city to explore, a world-class beach, shopping and dining.

Miami is not Myrtle Beach.

I shouldnt have said #1 tourist destination...but it is for theme parks.

Which is why, in my opinion, its best to let Miami's many draws do their own thing and let Orlando's draw do its thing. Thats a simpler way of putting what Ive been saying lol.

For the record, the Paramount Park proposed for Spain hasnt even begun breaking ground yet despite a projected 2015 opening at first. Its run into manh delays. Marketability or not, the park franchise cant even get off the ground in the first place.

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I live in Miami and I get Tyler's rationale...

Thank you..

 

[IzzyB]

Miami is not Myrtle Beach.

You are correct, it is not. They both bring in the same number of tourist per year, but the type of tourists are completely different. Myrtle Beach brings families and golfers. Where Miami brings less families and more known party type people. So I had a hard time finding comparable stats between the two, but from what I can see based on the stats I do have is that the average party size for Miami is around around 2 and 64% of the people that visit Myrtle Beach are families. So Miami doesn't get as many families, which can be your big money maker in attendance and purchases. So that is one strike against Miami market. So now lets look at the reasons the park in Myrtle Beach failed.

1. Price point was too high for the family incomes that were coming in (Only 21% make over 100,000). They had to have this price point because of it being a fully themed parks with rights to pay, just like this proposed park. Ironically the next year you could get tickets much cheaper ($25) and people still did not go. I am thinking this price point will even be higher than the original $55 that Hard Rock had. However from what I can see the avg room rate for myrtle is 85 and the average for Miami is 143. So people do spend more money in Miami. Now to be fair, the 143 includes all taxes and fees where the 85 does not. Also, the summer season was 117, which Miami is summer all year long. I get to this point more below.

2. Families didn't want to leave the beach and golfers are too busy to go to a park. So now, will the type of people go to a park. Well we know most likely the spring break crowd may not. Will the college students have the money for the price point and if they do will they spend it on alcohol or a theme park. How about the party couples? OK, this group I can see going. Then we have families, which for the same reason the myrtle beach families didn't go would also pertain to Miami.

3. Lack of advertising. They could easily fix this one, BUT the people who visited knew about this place it was that they could not pull out of towners in. So they were basing success off the people who already visited. I think this is where Miami would also fail, because yes, they could advertise outside their market, but like Tyler stated, will those people choice to go to Miami or Orlando based on seeing advertisements from this new park vs. advertisements from the three major places in Orlando.

4. Not enough money in the bank. I would hope no other theme park looking to open makes this same mistake. You need to have enough money into the bank to assume you will be in the red for a couple years. HR people did not do this. Nor did the next people who took over. If it could have made it thru 3 or 4 years maybe it would have worked better, but based on the attendance numbers I don't know that time would have helped.

The ONE advantage Miami has over Myrtle Beach is it is a year round destination. However Ironically Myrtle Beach gets the same number of people in a shorter vacation time frame. So the longer season does not mean more attendance. It just means the crowds may be a little more spread out and more locals might go because they can use it and enjoy it year round. Hard Rock was originally supposed to be open year round too, just never could financially make it thru a season.

 

[UNIrd]

Even though this is Orlando United, there's more theme parks outside of Orlando. In fact, you can find them in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee; Williamsburg, Virginia; San Antonio, Texas; Hershey, Pennsylvania, etc.
Just because it's not built in Orlando, does not mean that it will fail. If they were to build a world-class theme park in Miami, people will come.

 

[IzzyB]

Even though this is Orlando United, there's more theme parks outside of Orlando. In fact, you can find them in Pigeon Forge, Tennessee; Williamsburg, Virginia; San Antonio, Texas; Hershey, Pennsylvania, etc.
Just because it's not built in Orlando, does not mean that it will fail. If they were to build a world-class theme park in Miami, people will come.

There is a difference between a world class theme park and an amusement park. All of those places you mentioned have amusement parks. Not world class theme parks. If they were proposing an amusement park I would be like, "Why didn't they do this before?!?!?". Because it would most likely be successful. What is the difference? The difference is the level of theming, type of rides, type of IPs, cost of ticket, and cost to run the place. A world class theme park has high operating costs which means higher ticket prices. Higher ticket prices mean less people can afford it.

I originally saw this and thought the board members were stupid, why not do this. But the more I read into it, I realized I see why the board members are hesitating. Now if they can get something between the low end Dino and the world class theme park like they seem to be talking about, then they might be able to do it. Because that would be an amusement park attached to a zoo. That could work very well in that market because the operating costs would be way lower, meaning lower tickets, and less people need to attend to make it profitable.

 

[Brian G.]

As stated when I read the proposal, the idea sounds great, but the biggest problem is it's location. It's not located next to the prime real estate like downtown, or South Beach. It's about 30 min south of the airport, and that's if there is no traffic.

 

[Miketheboss]

David Beckham wants to build a soccer stadium here in Miami. So its not about the tourists. Its about location and whether people will take a day out of their vacation at the beach to check this place out.

 

[Miketheboss]

There is a difference between a world class theme park and an amusement park. All of those places you mentioned have amusement parks. Not world class theme parks.

I kinda disagree with you on that point. Dollywood can be compared to Universal, or how it was like 5 years ago before potter. Its not an "amusement park" like six flags. Dollywood won the 2010 Applause Award winner, and is recognized as one of the world’s best theme parks.It has also appeared nine times on Amusement Today's Golden Ticket 2012 awards as one of the best overall parks, one of the friendliest parks and one of the cleanest parks. Its not as well known as Disney or Universal but who can really beat them.

So dont mess with my Dolly !!!!!

 

[MrRoamer]

I agree, Dollywood is a pretty good park. It straddles the line bamusement park and theme park, and the themed mountain men characters walking around are surprisingly realistic.

 

[IzzyB]

OK, I will give you guys Dollywood But I don't know that makes much a difference. Dollywood expenses are probably not as high as most high end theme parks and where it is, is a totally different vacation spot than beach locals.

 

[TylerDurden]

I wont give you guys Dollywood . As nice as it is, its in a better location than this proposed park. There are no comparable attractions around it, yet the region has a built-in tourist base of the ever-important family market. Its a lot easier to add on a day at Dollywood to your hiking vacation than it is to your beach vacation 3 hours south of Disney World. Thats the concept that so many of you arent getting. You have to look at it in terms of what the general public will do, and how a non-theme park enthusiast spends their vacation.

Plus, as great as Dollywood may be, it costs nowhere near as much money to maintain as the major players do, which is what the Paramount park was aspiring to be akin to.

 

[Macfr3ak]

This looks to be back in play..

 

[AK-Jake]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg is also a theme park. It isn't near the level of what Disney/Universal do, but that's due to it being a regional, seasonal park with lower attendance than the Orlando/LA parks. Dollywood is an odd animal...it seems like a theme park, but Dollywood's own page calls it both a "family amusement park" in some areas and a "theme park" in others. I would classify it as a theme park, but that determination is up to each individual's opinion. I would argue that Silver Dollar City is a theme park as well. Knott's Berry Farm? Debatable. Cedar Fair, Hershey, Six Flags...all amusement parks.

And yes, it looks like the Fox-based park is back on. I get why there's concern about this park coming to Miami and actually making it and I agree with Tyler, Izzy and BriMan's points. However, I firmly believe that if Fox itself is actually building/running the park, it'll be a success...providing they are willing to stand behind and support the park and not bail on it as soon as it starts struggling (were that to happen). When Anheuser Busch owned the Busch/SeaWorld parks, there was little pressure on the parks to sustain themselves because they had a rich parent corporation running things and providing steady financial support to keep them open during slower times. As soon as AB sold off the Busch Entertainment Corporation and the parks became self-sustaining and lost their "safety net" to weather the hard times the parks have been facing. Had Hard Rock Park been built by the Hard Rock Cafe International company itself, I think it would have eventually been successful and would still be here today. Hard Rock would have had money to keep the park open and running in the slower early years, and would have had the money to keep investing in new attractions and marketing campaigns.

This is an exciting prospect to come to Miami...but it's also a high-risk venture at the same time. I'm rooting for it, even though I'm still not sure it's absolutely going to happen.

 

[Rhian]

bump (mods, don't know if this should've been a new thread?)

I recently read some news and there's been a few updates since in case anyone's following this project. Looks like a few things have changed, including a smaller footprint since whatever original proposals were released.

Discussion on controversial Miami Wilds Water Park next to Zoo Miami deferred until December

Those opposed to the water park want the proposal terminated to protect wildlife

www.cbsnews.com

Miami Wilds batted back to December as legal issues swirl

Miami Wilds reared its tumultuous head at last week’s Miami-Dade County Commission meeting when Commissioner Kionne McGhee offered a surprise motion that the county provide a status report on the decades-long water park effort. Ultimately, the

www.miamitodaynews.com

I'm sure there'll be more back and forth that may or may not be super interesting to follow but a couple of dates were mentioned in that second link:

“In between the last time we had a commission meeting and now there have been updates as relates to lawsuits, counter lawsuits, all kinds of different things have happened. So … I’m … making a motion to direct (the) administration to issue a status report and recommendations by Dec. 12 so that we can all understand where we are with this issue,” Mr. McGhee offered.

Commissioner Regalado persisted in the commission meeting: “My understanding is they have to have shovels in the ground by Dec. 22…. But once they say we are in default … then what we are doing is … providing a roadmap for a potential litigation.”

Not sure if there's anyone who has additional insight into where this project stands these days. If anything it's something to keep an eye out for towards the end of the year, maybe? The issue's quite batty.

 

[xxbrothawizxx]

I was shocked the project was still alive when I saw the articles last month. Still feels like they're in a similar spot with the conservationist, but perhaps the parking lot plan will effectively skirt the issue. It's just a shell of the initial plan at this point though, and with Triple 5 seemingly pretty deep underwater we're probably not getting the mall theme park either.

A shame. I really miss having a coaster in the South FL area. A fully themed water park further south would be nice though.

 

[Rhian]

It's officially over. The project will not move forward.

Miami-Dade commission votes to withdraw Miami Wilds water park proposal

The water park was slated to be built on the parking lot at Zoo Miami

www.cbsnews.com

 

[frank_1991_]

I'm happy they killed this project. We already have enough traffic in Kendall to deal with. What they need to do is rebuild the zoo. I made the mistake of getting an annual pass this month and was shocked at the sorry state of Zoo Miami. The majority of the exhibits were closed or empty of animals. They just had to euthanize the last tiger they had. Just a terrible experience.