SeaWorld Orlando General Updates

[Brian G.]

I think the tweet was deleted... so was no re-entry so they could kick people out and know they weren't getting back in?

It was a "precaution" by SeaWorld to combat the recent troublemaking. They've changed the sign now to better reflect all that.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Had a bit of free time earlier today, so I decided to figure out (based on public information) what in the world SeaWorld United Parks is doing from a strategic perspective.

In 2023, attendance at all of their parks reached 21.6M visitors, or about -7.6% compared to 2013 (23.4M).

In 2023, revenue for all of their parks reached $1.7B, or about -10.5% when you adjust their 2013 results for inflation ($1.4B in 2013 or $1.9B in 2023 dollars).

Since then, their dependency on F&B as a % of total revenue has risen to 45% compared to 37% in 2013.



*All data is public information from their quarterly/annual reports.

I'm no expert, but I'd have to imagine increased cost of in-park offerings is resulting in an overall decline for the company.

 

[Jake S]

My hunch is they're doing a better job (not good, but better) of what Six Flags is trying to do — give away the gate, get people into the park spending on food and drink (especially drink) and increase profit as a result. I'd be curious to see how much a one-day admission ticket and their middle-tier season pass has increased in price over the past 10 years and compare that to the food and beverage increases.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

My hunch is they're doing a better job (not good, but better) of what Six Flags is trying to do — give away the gate, get people into the park spending on food and drink (especially drink) and increase profit as a result. I'd be curious to see how much a one-day admission ticket and their middle-tier season pass has increased in price over the past 10 years and compare that to the food and beverage increases.

... the issue is that both attendance & revenue are down overall for the company as they increase F&B pricing more and more. Admission Per Capita has only risen ~$5 to $44 in 2023 from $39 in 2013. Where as F&B has risen ~$13 from $23 in 2013 to $36 in 2023.

 

[Jake S]

... the issue is that both attendance & revenue are down overall for the company as they increase F&B pricing more and more. Admission Per Capita has only risen ~$5 to $44 in 2023 from $39 in 2013. Where as F&B has risen ~$13 from $23 in 2013 to $36 in 2023.

I didn't say it was a good strategy!

 

[HandsomePete]

... the issue is that both attendance & revenue are down overall for the company as they increase F&B pricing more and more. Admission Per Capita has only risen ~$5 to $44 in 2023 from $39 in 2013. Where as F&B has risen ~$13 from $23 in 2013 to $36 in 2023.

Attendance is down because the product has turned into garbage. I know of a lot of people who have bailed on their APs because at least Orlando has gone from the easy place to visit with good happy hours to "why do I bother with this."

Also on the F&B front - if you push people to an All Day Dining product, you're probably going to get higher revenue but also higher cost of sales on that.

 

[OrlLover]

Aren’t all the Orlando parks experiencing attendance woes so I’m sure Sea World hasn’t been spared ?

 

[Jake S]

Aren’t all the Orlando parks experiencing attendance woes so I’m sure Sea World hasn’t been spared ?

In 2024? Sure. But it's notable SeaWorld seemed to get very little of the post-COVID bump Universal and Disney received.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Attendance is down because the product has turned into garbage. I know of a lot of people who have bailed on their APs because at least Orlando has gone from the easy place to visit with good happy hours to "why do I bother with this."

Also on the F&B front - if you push people to an All Day Dining product, you're probably going to get higher revenue but also higher cost of sales on that.

I agree, it's a combination of increased pricing & horrendous drop in operations. I'm one of those that cancelled their SW/BG AP with how annoying their parks have become to visit.

On the F&B note - their margins on F&B/Merch have actually improved (below). Which wouldn't surprise me to see it's attached to lower quality & less staffing (resulting in long lines).
2013 - 78.8%
2019 - 81.7%
2023 - 83.0%

Aren’t all the Orlando parks experiencing attendance woes so I’m sure Sea World hasn’t been spared ?

It's why my chart goes back to 2013, SWO/BGT attendance has been in a decline for years now. They never fully recovered their attendance from pre-Covid.

I just don't see how sustainable this will be in the long-term.

 

[IzzyB]

... the issue is that both attendance & revenue are down overall for the company as they increase F&B pricing more and more. Admission Per Capita has only risen ~$5 to $44 in 2023 from $39 in 2013. Where as F&B has risen ~$13 from $23 in 2013 to $36 in 2023.

Attendance was down before they messed with food prices. The blackfish stuff really hurt them and even with everything they have done I still have people tell me today, "Oh I won't go to Sea World they are evil to their animals, I can't believe you go" BS line. They need new owners who can hopefully have a fresh start, but doubt that happens.

I agree, it's a combination of increased pricing & horrendous drop in operations. I'm one of those that cancelled their SW/BG AP with how annoying their parks have become to visit.

On the F&B note - their margins on F&B/Merch have actually improved (below). Which wouldn't surprise me to see it's attached to lower quality & less staffing (resulting in long lines).
2013 - 78.8%
2019 - 81.7%
2023 - 83.0%


It's why my chart goes back to 2013, SWO/BGT attendance has been in a decline for years now. They never fully recovered their attendance from pre-Covid.

I just don't see how sustainable this will be in the long-term.

I went from SW straight into Universal passes and ride operations are night and day, taste of food was night and day, but operations within the restaurants actually Sea World was better. We went during Christmas season for both parks and food lines were long in both and actually it took longer to get food at Universal. They also had way less ways to customize stuff at Universal. Sea World pretty much accommodated whatever I wanted where Universal flat out won't change most items on their menu. Sea World also had kids meals at almost all restaurants which allow for cheaper family meals than Universal that doesn't have kids on over half their restaurants. Buying a $20 meal for your 6 year old is ROUGH knowing they won't eat half of it and not like you are taking a doggie bag out.

The main issue is the food booths which during Mardi Gras Universal food booth lines were pretty long too, so I think most parks have that issue.

Again, food overall is better at Universal. Sea World had very few places I would even go to because the food was pretty awful. I did like the pretzel place and that line was never too bad. The new pizza place was really good and they had self check out which worked well. We got food super fast during Christmas rush there.


But I 100% agree that Sea World is in major trouble and have thought this since the blackfish stuff came out. I don't think they know how to navigate out of this. They basically angered their fanbase with the show changes and it didn't give them enough good PR to get people into the parks who won't go on principal. Then the foreign travel markets being down really really hurt SW the most.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

Attendance was down before they messed with food prices. The blackfish stuff really hurt them and even with everything they have done I still have people tell me today, "Oh I won't go to Sea World they are evil to their animals, I can't believe you go" BS line. They need new owners who can hopefully have a fresh start, but doubt that happens.


I went from SW straight into Universal passes and ride operations are night and day, taste of food was night and day, but operations within the restaurants actually Sea World was better. We went during Christmas season for both parks and food lines were long in both and actually it took longer to get food at Universal. They also had way less ways to customize stuff at Universal. Sea World pretty much accommodated whatever I wanted where Universal flat out won't change most items on their menu. Sea World also had kids meals at almost all restaurants which allow for cheaper family meals than Universal that doesn't have kids on over half their restaurants. Buying a $20 meal for your 6 year old is ROUGH knowing they won't eat half of it and not like you are taking a doggie bag out.

The main issue is the food booths which during Mardi Gras Universal food booth lines were pretty long too, so I think most parks have that issue.

Again, food overall is better at Universal. Sea World had very few places I would even go to because the food was pretty awful. I did like the pretzel place and that line was never too bad. The new pizza place was really good and they had self check out which worked well. We got food super fast during Christmas rush there.


But I 100% agree that Sea World is in major trouble and have thought this since the blackfish stuff came out. I don't think they know how to navigate out of this. They basically angered their fanbase with the show changes and it didn't give them enough good PR to get people into the parks who won't go on principal. Then the foreign travel markets being down really really hurt SW the most.

SeaWorld's attendance decline started in 2008 and never really recovered.

Don't get me started on Universal F&B operations lol

 

[Mad Dog]

Part of Sea World Orlando's decline was Universal's success with Potter. But probably even more was when Blackstone's policies caused the entire chain to lose attendance. Even the excellent, at that time, BGW, nosedived. Sure the animal stuff hurt Orlando, but they probably could have recuperated better with good ownership. Blackstone was the typical Investor purchase. Bleed the company dry, and then sell. The negative for Blackstone though, was that they destroyed the chain too badly, thus affecting the price they got when they got out. Not many companies survive those investor group purchases. They usually just hang on for a few years. Sea World is living on borrowed time. Hard to crawl out of the morass.....Looking at the situation now, it's hard to look back and realize they were much healthier than Universal when Busch owned the chain.

 

[Disneyhead]

One of SeaWorld major hurdles is staffing. They are not paying wages competitive with Universal or WDW so they struggle to get people. And with Epic and it's need for a bazillion new team members SeaWorld's workforce will be decimated.

Instead of another new coaster, they need to invest in ops in a major way.

 

[Mad Dog]

One of SeaWorld major hurdles is staffing. They are not paying wages competitive with Universal or WDW so they struggle to get people. And with Epic and it's need for a bazillion new team members SeaWorld's workforce will be decimated.

Instead of another new coaster, they need to invest in ops in a major way.

and...with poor operations, the downward trend will accelerate. With just about only coasters, poor food, poor ops...they've morphed into more of a Six Flags park than the theme park, close to a Universal level, that they used to be. I'd imagine their demographic is becoming more like a Six Flags demographic also....namely teens and early 20's...those with not much money to spend.

 

[HandsomePete]

One of SeaWorld major hurdles is staffing. They are not paying wages competitive with Universal or WDW so they struggle to get people. And with Epic and it's need for a bazillion new team members SeaWorld's workforce will be decimated.

Instead of another new coaster, they need to invest in ops in a major way.

Yeah, things aren’t going to be great at Universal when they have to go fishing in every nook and cranny of the talent pool, but for SeaWorld it’s borderline existential. They legitimately might need to cut back to five day a week operations like after the pandemic or pull a Six Flags and not open attractions because they don’t have enough people to fill all the critical roles.

It’s sad because SeaWorld should be the park that attracts workers (frontline and professional) who are really good and just done with the bureaucracy of a Disney or Comcast…… but private equity.

and...with poor operations, the downward trend will accelerate. With just about only coasters, poor food, poor ops...they've morphed into more of a Six Flags park than the theme park, close to a Universal level, that they used to be. I'd imagine their demographic is becoming more like a Six Flags demographic also....namely teens and early 20's...those with not much money to spend.

In addition to my comment above about knowing a ton of people who have cancelled their APs, last weekend I saw a friend who went to SW the weekend before with their small child - I think the words he used were mess, zoo, and rough. He’s going to be a one year and done with the pass.

 

[UniversalRBLX]

One of SeaWorld major hurdles is staffing. They are not paying wages competitive with Universal or WDW so they struggle to get people. And with Epic and it's need for a bazillion new team members SeaWorld's workforce will be decimated.

Instead of another new coaster, they need to invest in ops in a major way.

No idea how they plan on tackling Epic's staffing draw. I honestly believed this year they would turn the page and start to treat employees better with competitive pay... then they flipped the bus upside down and ran with this tipped wage BS.

and...with poor operations, the downward trend will accelerate. With just about only coasters, poor food, poor ops...they've morphed into more of a Six Flags park than the theme park, close to a Universal level, that they used to be. I'd imagine their demographic is becoming more like a Six Flags demographic also....namely teens and early 20's...those with not much money to spend.

SWO is pretty much reliant on discounted tickets to schools/teachers/emergency personnel, foreign travel groups and locals who get heavily discounted tickets from their work (and friends w/ AP having free tickets). The issue is that your not going to get those folks back when you're asking them to pay $30+ for parking, $20+ for tenders, $9+ for a side of fries, $11+ for dippin' dots, etc and in exchange get poor operations with poorly trained employees that don't care because management doesn't care.

Yeah, things aren’t going to be great at Universal when they have to go fishing in every nook and cranny of the talent pool, but for SeaWorld it’s borderline existential. They legitimately might need to cut back to five day a week operations like after the pandemic or pull a Six Flags and not open attractions because they don’t have enough people to fill all the critical roles.

My expectation is they start to cut Monday/Tuesdays from their schedule during the off season. It also wouldn't shock me if they shift operating hours to be a bit more AP friendly (like Hershey Park kind of does) with opening times of 11/12PM so APs can at least get 2-3 hours after work.

 

[bbombei]

Yeah, things aren’t going to be great at Universal when they have to go fishing in every nook and cranny of the talent pool, but for SeaWorld it’s borderline existential. They legitimately might need to cut back to five day a week operations like after the pandemic or pull a Six Flags and not open attractions because they don’t have enough people to fill all the critical roles.

It’s sad because SeaWorld should be the park that attracts workers (frontline and professional) who are really good and just done with the bureaucracy of a Disney or Comcast…… but private equity.


In addition to my comment above about knowing a ton of people who have cancelled their APs, last weekend I saw a friend who went to SW the weekend before with their small child - I think the words he used were mess, zoo, and rough. He’s going to be a one year and done with the pass.

They need a major overhaul in their operations department, its kind of embarrising with how the park is run with disney and universal nearby and tourists will easily skip the park still but it doesn't matter since all the ride lines are way to long by the afternoon on the weekend. Wish Anheuser Busch would come back and clean up this mess, its unbearable now. They didn't run their parks so cheap everyday. Feels like the employees barely care here, you see them on their phones sometimes. They are definitely heading down the six flags route and this could only get worse. No way they will increase employee wage when epic opens, wonder what the turnover rate is at this park?

 

[Mad Dog]

It's hard to believe that prior to their park crash, during the Busch years, 30% of their visitors were International tourists (figure from their company statements) . Bet it's a pretty insignificant percentage now.

 

[IzzyB]

and...with poor operations, the downward trend will accelerate. With just about only coasters, poor food, poor ops...they've morphed into more of a Six Flags park than the theme park, close to a Universal level, that they used to be. I'd imagine their demographic is becoming more like a Six Flags demographic also....namely teens and early 20's...those with not much money to spend.

It is funny because I know a decent amount of families that have passes. Especially those with kids under the age of 10. Yes, we all say the crowds are for sure different (but you see that between Uni and Disney too), but the cheap AP mixed with all the AP bonuses it is honestly sometimes hard to give that one up. Especially with their coaster line up. If I had more time I would keep SW, but I just don't get to go enough to keep it.

They need a major overhaul in their operations department, its kind of embarrising with how the park is run with disney and universal nearby and tourists will easily skip the park still but it doesn't matter since all the ride lines are way to long by the afternoon on the weekend. Wish Anheuser Busch would come back and clean up this mess, its unbearable now. They didn't run their parks so cheap everyday. Feels like the employees barely care here, you see them on their phones sometimes. They are definitely heading down the six flags route and this could only get worse. No way they will increase employee wage when epic opens, wonder what the turnover rate is at this park?

Lines long? Have you been to Sea World? I honestly don't know many times I wait in lines. It was the advantage of SW as we could go any time of the year and avoid lines for the most part. Maybe I just know how to navigate the park, but Mako is a walk on more than not. Even pipeline lines were not long depending on the time of day. SW also tends to stay open later which also helps since we go later when less people are there.

It's hard to believe that prior to their park crash, during the Busch years, 30% of their visitors were International tourists (figure from their company statements) . Bet it's a pretty insignificant percentage now.

I believe the amount of international tourists coming to Orlando is less, especially from Brazil which they got a lot from Brazil who would go to SW. Overall I wish Busch didn't sell. I agree with your other posts Blackstone destroyed the parks and I don't know how they move forward. Universal was on the same path until Harry Potter and Comcast saved them.

 

[Mad Dog]

It is funny because I know a decent amount of families that have passes. Especially those with kids under the age of 10. Yes, we all say the crowds are for sure different (but you see that between Uni and Disney too), but the cheap AP mixed with all the AP bonuses it is honestly sometimes hard to give that one up. Especially with their coaster line up. If I had more time I would keep SW, but I just don't get to go enough to keep it.


Lines long? Have you been to Sea World? I honestly don't know many times I wait in lines. It was the advantage of SW as we could go any time of the year and avoid lines for the most part. Maybe I just know how to navigate the park, but Mako is a walk on more than not. Even pipeline lines were not long depending on the time of day. SW also tends to stay open later which also helps since we go later when less people are there.


I believe the amount of international tourists coming to Orlando is less, especially from Brazil which they got a lot from Brazil who would go to SW. Overall I wish Busch didn't sell. I agree with your other posts Blackstone destroyed the parks and I don't know how they move forward. Universal was on the same path until Harry Potter and Comcast saved them.

Yes, Disney last year said that even they have experienced a pretty large drop in international tourism at WDW.