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Six Flags Magic Mountain

Discussion in 'Other California Parks' started by UniversalFan, May 30, 2013.

  1. Dhdhddh

    Dhdhddh Newcomer

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    Idk, I mean they built Apocalypse and Green Lantern, and a new 20th coaster in and of itself would be an unprecedented record. 20 coasters in one park is nothing to scoff at.
     
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  2. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Agreed the park needs more variety. Disagree that necessarily means more flats. More dark rides, maybe a motion simulator, a walk-through attraction like Walking Dead at USH. Just more variety in general. Sure, add a few more flats but don't go overboard with those.

    I don't think I've ever ridden a flat ride at SFMM and I've been going to the park since childhood. Lol I've always loved the water rides though. Have fond memories of the Log Jammer & Yosemite Sam Sierra Falls. Also non-water rides such as Freefall.
     
  3. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Yea, I think if it's a flat ride package then so be it.

    I guess nothing exciting will happen at the park till the 50th. I'm glad we have a bunch of other parks in CA to keep me excited with their new attractions. Lol
     
  4. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    @Freak Have you had a chance to ride Electric Eel at Seaworld San Diego? Looks like a fun, little coaster.
     
  5. Freak

    Freak Veteran Member

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    Not yet. Might do it in a month or two. Heard the airtime was neutered by the best restraints. I will be riding Steel Vengeance next month. :) Six Flags can’t really have a ride like that as it’s too low capacity.
     
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  6. Rideguy70

    Rideguy70 Rookie

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    I really can't disagree with you more. As a dark ride enthusiast, JL is fine for SFMM. No one's going to a SF park for dark rides. All the dark rides that I can think of for any SF park is either JL or were pre-exisiting when they bought the park (Yosmite Sam in SFOT--which, okay, I believe they did redo, but I also believe the original boat ride was already there, and Monster Mansion at SFOG). JL aside, I don't think they've ever build a dark ride from the ground up, nor is it really their cup of tea.

    Motion simulators? The market is pretty saturated already, and people are already sick of them. But even so, their attempt at VR qualifies to me. Besides, isn't JL pretty much a moving motion simulator already? I think that base is already covered, and we don't need any more.

    Aside from Fright Fest, I don't see SF in the year round haunt business. All other walk through attractions in parks that I've seen were more fun houses, like Grandfather's Mansion in Silver Dollar City. Which, let's be real, would get vandalized pretty quick if brought out here.

    You may not ride the flats, but really, in the larger amusement park picture, while SFMM is heralded for their coaster collection, it's pretty universally laughed at as a balanced park. Nearly any other park will have many, many flats to balance it out. Witness Busch Gardens, Canada's Wonderland (a great collection of flats), World's of Fun, Lagoon, SF Great America (another great collection of flats), or even in CA, Knott's, SFDK and CGA. All have more and better flats than SFMM. Let's also note that flat themselves can give a variety, which is your complaint. There's more to thrills than just coasters.

    You say SFMM is fine because they took our so many of theirs. While I don't have firsthand knowledge, I was always under the impression it was more for maintenance reasons that lack of popularity. Plus, trying to attract more families means you need some intermediate level rides. Triokas are perfect for this. And again, they take people away from the coaster lines, so you should at least be grateful for that fact, even if you don't ride them personally.
     
  7. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Don't worry, SFMM management is clearly taking your side, not mine. The bean counters are happy because they can now tighten their purse strings for many, many years & just add a bunch of flats, excepting the 5oth anniversary.

    Everyone right now is flocking to Steel Vengeance, including posters on here like Freak. It has all the media attention. But yea dude, I'm absolutely sure the same thing will happen when SFMM opens their Troika flat ride. Guests will drop thousands of $$$ and fly across the country to experience such a great attraction. I'm already saving up my pennies.

    All those places you mentioned are regional parks, other than Knott's. Of course they are going to be full of flats. Flat rides are cheap. My point is that SFMM is trying to move beyond regional park status & adding flats for a 2nd year in a row is NOT a good way to attract national & international guests.

    If you admitted that guests don't flock to the park for dark rides, can you also admit that guests don't flock to the park to ride flat rides? Honestly, the park just needs a few solid flats, not a park filled with them like they used to have it.

    You bring up Knott's, but they actually don't have that many flat rides. Now THAT is a balanced park. They have Calico Mine Ride, Timber Mountain Log Ride, a train, a stagecoach, a nice collection of coasters, kiddie rides, functional sky cabin, and a limited number of flats (less than 10).

    TBH, I always purchase Flash Pass so flats eating up lines doesn't affect me.
     
  8. AlexanderMBush

    AlexanderMBush Veteran Member

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    Who's to say that they HAVE to appeal to national scale?

    To be blunt, there can be more done that can elevate Six Flags Magic Mountain, than just adding a new coaster and calling it a day. There is a reason to why Steel Vengeance is important, but that's more due to the past iteration of the coaster in that spot. And, that it's been a thing that a lot of people have been dreaming of to happen for Mean Streak.

    Six Flags, need's more than just coasters. And that to me, I would much rather enjoy them wanting to give time and dedication to improving the park to make it better, and to make it more rounded. Now, I'm not expecting a transport attraction ala' Metro from past, but I am hoping that they can improve in theming, add attractions that'd help diverge guests from the coasters to other areas of the park, and to make infrastructural improvements to improve the quality of the park in long-term.

    I would also love to see more changes done for Hurricane Harbor, as it'd be another great way to give people reasons to come to SFMM for not just the theme park.

    I feel the need to stress this, don't expect SNW by 2021.
     
  9. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Thank you for making my point. There are TONS of non-coaster improvements the park needs that doesn't mean just adding a bunch of cheap flat rides. Aesthetic upgrades, front entrance overhaul, infrastructure improvements, & adding cool attractions such as Battle for Metropolis.

    I guess I'm the lone wolf saying that I don't want the park to be full of cheap flat rides like most other parks in the US. Honestly I would be happier if their 2019 investment is painting Tatsu and refurbing an older coaster, instead of getting a flat ride for the 2nd year in a row.

    Or I would be happy if they are able to build an on-site hotel, which would bring them a lot closer to being a destination park.

    But nope. Unfortunately, the direction the park seems to be going in is just adding more flats. Good luck with that.

    PS SNW 2022?
     
  10. Chris Galindo

    Chris Galindo Veteran Member

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    Off topic but good luck. Got word another incident happened today and CP will be closing the ride for a while.
     
  11. Freak

    Freak Veteran Member

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    Are you sure? I'm hearing zero about this.
     
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  12. Rideguy70

    Rideguy70 Rookie

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    I still just don't understand why you think adding flat rides is a cheap move. And let's face it, most parks ARE regional. But you have to admit, even Cedar Point... the other "king" of amusement parks... has way more flat rides that SFMM. Does Cedar Point feel cheap to you because it has so many flat rides?

    And yes, while everyone's excited about Steel Vengeance for this year at CP, can you tell me what they added in 2017? Can you? Oh, right. Nothing. Not every year can a park add a major attraction.

    Flat rides are a good way to keep the park fresh without breaking the bank. You act as if SFMM doesn't already have 19 coasters to it's name, more than any other park in the world. And that's still not enough to draw people in for you? Even if/when they do get a 20th coaster, will you be complaining that we won't get a 21st coaster the following year?

    Meanwhile, SFMM is going to add exactly one flat ride in about the last maybe 30 years after removing a ton of them, and you're complaining that the park is going to be overrun with flats? Unless you want to count Lex Luthor: Drop of Doom as a flat ride, the last flat ride introduced at SFMM was the Swashbuckler in 1983. Cedar Point has added 2 flat rides in the last 10 years. Gimmie a break.

    Yes, Knott's has 10 flat rides. But it's also less than half the size of SFMM, with less than half the number of coasters. SFMM has seven flats--count them, seven--and it's easily twice as big. (I'm not counting the kiddies flats--nor did I for Knott's). In term of ride balance, I do agree with you Knott's is a much better balanced park.

    I will freely admit very few will flock to a park because of the flats (although I did visit Canda's Wonderland in part because they have so many unique flats that are hard to find elsewhere--so it does happen). That said, they do fill in a niche that most GP don't know they even wanted until they see it... the ability to get a quick thrill without standing in a gargantuan line. And their kinetic nature adds much to the overall feel of a park. While guests many not necessarily come exclusively for flat rides, they add value to a park.

    One thing I do agree with you on... making improvements to infrastructure is also welcome. And they have been overall improving in that category as well. Painting rides and overhauling coasters probably won't bring people flocking to the gates, but TNR is getting longer lines that it did before, and if the rumored new trains/restraints happen for Viper, that'd be terrific. And they can't overhaul those restrooms right at the front of the park soon enough... those are disgusting, but probably the most used because of their location. They really need to completely redo that, and badly.
     
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  13. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Dude, I feel like we agree more than we disagree.

    But what I can't understand is why you keep twisting my argument. Never have I stated that I expect SFMM to add a coaster every single year. I've been pretty emphatic about how they should upgrade current attractions/infrastructure, rather than adding more rides. A new coaster every year is unsustainable as a business model.

    To make it easy, I'll do bullet points about my arguments, what we agree and disagree on.

    MY ARGUMENTS

    *The park needs infrastructure upgrades. (We agree)
    *The park should refurbish some of its older coasters such as Viper (We agree)
    *A major investment needs to be made for a 20th coaster in order to garner media attention and attract the public. A truly groundbreaking coaster that will have enthusiasts and the general public flock to MM. (Not sure if you agree with me)
    *Flat rides are not going to entice the public. (We agree)
    *The park needs more variety of rides (We agree)
    *The park shouldn't be overrun with flat rides (We disagree)
    *The park should add just a few more solid flat rides to bring the total count to about 10 or so (We disagree)
    *Instead of just having coasters and flat rides, the park should invest in different types of attractions such as dark rides, locomotion, 4D attractions like Mass Effect, Year Round Haunts like Walking Dead, etc. (We definitely disagree-You only want nothing but cheap flat rides)
    *Build an on-site hotel to make it more of a vacation destination (Not sure if we agree)
    -
     
  14. Ryan

    Ryan Staff Member Moderator

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    Maybe it's best to wait for the 50th anniversary to add an insane new coaster...?

    I know that sounds reductive but this could be all part of a plan leading up to that.

    ...yeah both of these are never happening.
     
  15. Rideguy70

    Rideguy70 Rookie

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    We may agree on many points, but the ones where we disagree are very strong. Firstly, the park is in no danger of being "overrun" by flat rides. Did you read the part were I said the last flat ride they added was in 1983? They could add a flat ride for the next 10 years and still have more coasters.

    Second, I just don't get why you don't like flat rides. Their entire point is to provide thrills and a sense of disorientation... just like coasters. Just because you see them at carnivals, what's the big deal? You often see roller coasters at carnivals... including models that end up at parks! But carnivals aren't year round, so unless you happen upon one, you can't necessarily find a flat ride at any given moment. Unless it's at an amusement park.

    And I would love to see SFMM get dark rides, and a year round haunt, but it's not going to happen. Totally unrealistic. That's not their market or their focus. Wishing for it ain't gonna make it happen. And I think the motion simulator attractions that are shoe-horned into old theater spaces are a waste. To me, that's what cries out "cheap mall ride/bad Vegas attraction".

    I think we all agree a 20th coaster needs to be spectacular. And if they save up for it (and as many speculate, open the 20th coaster in 2020, and not in 2019), then it could even be grander as well as a be a great marketing plan. If so, that could mean 2019 will be fairly low key as well. More flats before a big announcement the following year would be perfect.
     
  16. Freak

    Freak Veteran Member

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    So the new speculation is 20th coaster for ‘20 and another one for the 50th?
     
  17. Dhdhddh

    Dhdhddh Newcomer

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    I feel that it can’t be said enough, but theme park and coaster enthusiasts don’t matter to the park’s bottom line at all. We make up less than 1% of their attendance (1% is probably too generous).

    As far as your other points, you’re making s strawman of Ridgeguy70’s argument. He didn’t say he wants the park to be overrun with “cheap flats” as you call them, but that they would add more variety to the park’s coaster-heavy lineup.

    The most important thing to remember though is that not every addition the park makes has to have a national appeal. Magic Mountain, despite being famous for its coaster lineup and numerous television/movie appearances, is very much a regional park. Visitors from outside of the LA/California market are the exception, not the norm, because despite having the most coasters of any park on the planet, roller coasters are something the average person in the U.S. can find at a nearby regional park. SFMM fills its niche as the thrillseeker’s paradise on the West Coast, but when there are similar (and oftentimes better) regional parks in the U.S., it becomes an afterthought (if given any thought at all). Competing against Disney/Universal is out of the question simply because of budget, and competing with Cedar Point is something they don’t have to do because it’s 2300 miles away.
     
  18. SOCAL110

    SOCAL110 Rookie

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    Alright guys, I'm out.
     
  19. Red Carpet

    Red Carpet Rookie

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    While I do think the park should add more flats eventually, I was hoping they would open something major in 2019 as an "answer" to Galaxy's Edge.
     
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  20. Dhdhddh

    Dhdhddh Newcomer

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    Of the SoCal parks, Magic Mountain is probably the least likely to be in competition with Disney, so I think they’re safe.
     
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