Tilikum has Died

[SkiBum]

For sure...I meant they should end the shows quicker than they are and shift marketing focus to new experiences

It seems they are trying, but I see an Orca pop up every once in a while..

You know, what is sad is that the whales pay the price. As the captive whales get older and the older whales die off, the younger ones will grow older with less socialization. Killer whales are very social, obviously from their Facebook and Twitter posts, and there is no happy ending for them. They don't have a pod and they have a limited area to swim in. They are very smart animals but lack the understanding as to why things have changed (or so I believe).

I still hate the movie "Blackfish" because it was obviously slanted in one direction. It is always harder to counter once someone has already made a statement publicly via a movie or whatever.

 

[epcyclopedia]

Thirty years is a much longer shelf life than most attractions. So a new whale habitat that is larger and offers things like an exercise current and more natural in-tank options would be a big draw.

Instead they build another coaster no one will care about in 10 years and pay for the rights to use a reindeer.

 

[epcyclopedia]

And imagine how happy the dolphins will be to move into the big old orca tank once the last orca retires.

 

[WAJAS]

@epcyclopedia both of the above are good points. I think buying the rights to Rudolph was a smart move though. They need a recognizable ip in their parks along with Elmo and Friends.

 

[fryoj]

You know, what is sad is that the whales pay the price. As the captive whales get older and the older whales die off, the younger ones will grow older with less socialization. Killer whales are very social, obviously from their Facebook and Twitter posts, and there is no happy ending for them. They don't have a pod and they have a limited area to swim in. They are very smart animals but lack the understanding as to why things have changed (or so I believe).

I still hate the movie "Blackfish" because it was obviously slanted in one direction. It is always harder to counter once someone has already made a statement publicly via a movie or whatever.

I wonder if, as the older ones die off, they will move younger whales from one Sea World to another? Basically pick one location to have the last of the whales. It would allow them to keep socializing till there is only one left and would allow them to start repurposing the existing locations to other attractions sooner.

 

[epcyclopedia]

@epcyclopedia both of the above are good points. I think buying the rights to Rudolph was a smart move though. They need a recognizable ip in their parks along with Elmo and Friends.

Happy orcas we think of as cats in moderate apartments instead of whales in bathtubs is the IP they need to push.

 

[WAJAS]

Happy orcas we think of as cats in moderate apartments instead of whales in bathtubs is the IP they need to push.

That was their whole brand up till recently. Doesn't seem to be working anymore.

 

[Andysol]

Happy orcas we think of as cats in moderate apartments instead of whales in bathtubs is the IP they need to push.

"Bathtubs". As if we have bathtubs that are multiple times the lengths of our bodies. Needless exaggeration always irks me and I feel it always diminishes whatever point someone is trying to make. This isn't just you- everyone ignorantly spouts "bathtubs".
Can we not just say "Swimming Pools" as a more realistic argument? Its still too small- but at least it's not a needless over exaggeration.

 

[shiekra38]

IPs are king in Orlando...unfortunately Busch and Sea World don't have any

 

[epcyclopedia]

"Bathtubs". As if we have bathtubs that are multiple times the lengths of our bodies. Needless exaggeration always irks me and I feel it always diminishes whatever point someone is trying to make. This isn't just you- everyone ignorantly spouts "bathtubs".
Can we not just say "Swimming Pools" as a more realistic argument? Its still too small- but at least it's not a needless over exaggeration.

Blue World was to be a massive expansion of the tank. Relative to their size it'd be viewed as much more humane than the current holdOmg tanks.

The general public now -knows- the whales spend very little time in the larger show tank when there isn't a show.

 

[Andysol]

Blue World was to be a massive expansion of the tank. Relative to their size it'd be viewed as much more humane than the current holdOmg tanks.

The general public now -knows- the whales spend very little time in the larger show tank when there isn't a show.

I agree- Blue World would have been a significant improvement. But I also understand their strategy to not continue through with the expansion. It's just unfortunate that the ones who suffer are the ones who would have benefited the most from it. Yet it's still touted as a "win" by the extremes. Oh well.

Elephants in a savannah like at Animal Kingdom are the way to display animals- and I think it's fantastic. Blue World would have been the equivalent. All bred, no captures, etc. And at the end of the day, they're just animals. Intelligent ones, but still animals. And the ironic thing is that no one would give a damn about Orcas and know their intelligence and magnificence if it weren't for Seaworld. Truly Ironic.

 

[WAJAS]

the whales spend very little time in the larger show tank when there isn't a show.

This simply isn't true. There isn't even reason for it to be true. For what reason would they not allow them in this tank? If you arrive early to a show you can literally see the whales in the show tank with the at least one of the gates open.

 

[epcyclopedia]

I was a stage tech who worked on shamu stadium. Don't tell me what the truth is about how it operates.

 

[WAJAS]

I was a stage tech who worked on shamu stadium. Don't tell me what the truth is about how it operates.

How long ago? You'd think they'd change that sort of thing in the wake of Blackfish. I am positive they are at least allowed in the pool 45mins before show starts because I've seen them there when entering for the show.

 

[epcyclopedia]

After dawn's death but before blackfish aired on CNN.

The idea that they learned nothing, blamed her, and called it trainer error is not some fantasy. The guy you hear calling 911 saying "a whale has eaten a trainer" was my boss.

 

[Andysol]

Each show pool is roughly 2 million gallons. Each of the 2 holding pools are roughly 1 million gallons each. So essentially the holding pools are half the size of the show pools. They are very similar in size; however, its usually the depth that adds the majority of the size (show pools are usually 36 feet deep while the holding pools are only 20 feet- for the jumps).
Like most things- the holding tanks being tiny is also overblown.

Here is San Antonio's- the one I visit often. Show pool is 40 feet deep and the holding pools are 25 feet deep.

"Bathtub"... Laughable. The truth is, Seaworld was/is the leader in care for Orcas. It's still small, but per orca, it'd be the equivalent of spending your life in your living room. The tanks worldwide are the appauling ones. Here is Argentina's, for example. 500k gallons.

 

[WAJAS]

After dawn's death but before blackfish aired on CNN.

The idea that they learned nothing, blamed her, and called it trainer error is not some fantasy. The guy you hear calling 911 saying "a whale has eaten a trainer" was my boss.

I'm never going to argue that any part of that situation was right. It was not right that SW attempted to blame the trainer to save its own ass. I do think they have learned from the incident, whether willingly of not. Trainers now were a vest that inflates and provides air in case of an emergency. They also obviously aren't even allowed in the full depth pools with them anymore. Safety protocols were also completely re-evaluated and changed in response (although I believe this happened a while later).

You also have to acknowledge that working with an animal with the capability, and with Tilikum the history, to kill a person. Dawn new this, yet still chose to continue working for this company. I believe she truly believed in what she and the company was doing. His family has said that they agree with this sentiment.

 

[matt78]

IPs are king in Orlando...unfortunately Busch and Sea World don't have any

I still think it would be a good idea for them to rip out Shamu's Happy Hour and replace it with a smaller version of Sesame Place. It would help draw families in with young children.

 

[bob albert]

I still think it would be a good idea for them to rip out Shamu's Happy Hour and replace it with a smaller version of Sesame Place. It would help draw families in with young children.

I guess the idea is that Shamu itself is pretty much an IP. Not a bad idea tho.

 

[epcyclopedia]

But the Sesame stuff doesn't make any sense within SeaWorld.