Universal Great Britain

[Thorin Groth]

I am a little out of the loop, why is Harry Potter ruled out as a possibility? I wouldn't mind since Orlando will have three areas for it after Epic opens but if it's due to no Orlando land repeats being allowed, couldn't they do a new area from the world?

 

[Alicia]

I am a little out of the loop, why is Harry Potter ruled out as a possibility? I wouldn't mind since Orlando will have three areas for it after Epic opens but if it's due to no Orlando land repeats being allowed, couldn't they do a new area from the world?

Proximity to the London Tour, so Warner Bros doesn’t want competition, allegedly.

 

[Altonsky]

That tour prints money tbh so it does make sense.

From 2012 when it opened to 2017 it generated $450 million dollars.

It generates around £150M annually according to The Times last year and their companies house filings.

It’s made over a billion dollars since it opened and honestly shows no signs of slowing down.

Harry Potter Tour Revenue Surges Past $1 Billion

Britain's Harry Potter movie tour has generated more than $1 billion of revenue since it opened 12 years ago according to its latest financial statements which show that sales doubled to a record $184.4 million (£149.1 million) in 2022 as the end of pandemic restrictions cast a powerful spell on...

www.forbes.com

Not bad for some old sets in a warehouse.

 

[Doug88]

That tour prints money tbh so it does make sense.

From 2012 when it opened to 2017 it generated $450 million dollars.

It generates around £150M annually according to The Times last year and their companies house filings.

It’s made over a billion dollars since it opened and honestly shows no signs of slowing down.

Harry Potter Tour Revenue Surges Past $1 Billion

Britain's Harry Potter movie tour has generated more than $1 billion of revenue since it opened 12 years ago according to its latest financial statements which show that sales doubled to a record $184.4 million (£149.1 million) in 2022 as the end of pandemic restrictions cast a powerful spell on...

www.forbes.com

Not bad for some old sets in a warehouse.

Imagine how much universal could make if WB has turned over a billion.

 

[rob@rar]

Imagine how much universal could make if WB has turned over a billion.

I’d imagine it costs significantly less to construct and operate the Potter Studios Tour when compared to building and operating a full-blown theme park.

I think the Studio Tour now gets about 2.5 million visitors per year, which is around a quarter of what Universal have said they want in their UGB park. But the capital investment in the Studios Tour must be significantly less than Universal is going to spend in Bedford.

 

[xtpower]

That tour prints money tbh so it does make sense.

From 2012 when it opened to 2017 it generated $450 million dollars.

It generates around £150M annually according to The Times last year and their companies house filings.

It’s made over a billion dollars since it opened and honestly shows no signs of slowing down.

Harry Potter Tour Revenue Surges Past $1 Billion

Britain's Harry Potter movie tour has generated more than $1 billion of revenue since it opened 12 years ago according to its latest financial statements which show that sales doubled to a record $184.4 million (£149.1 million) in 2022 as the end of pandemic restrictions cast a powerful spell on...

www.forbes.com

Not bad for some old sets in a warehouse.

It's also tapped out in capacity, they max out every year (barring the covid year) so whilst it is a steady stream of income it is also a limited stream of income. I have no doubt that Universal pays more per year than the Studio Tour makes and I'm not including royalties either.

Which brings us to UGB, if it had Potter I'm very confident it would bring in more via licensing and royalties than the Studio Tour does, just on the sheer weight of it's increased attendance. But that's something the execs and JK will have to consider here.

The Studio Tour itself may not even need protecting from UGB, it's popularity is such that it could easily live among UGB without seeing a huge drop in visitors. But it's up to Warner whether they want to risk it or not and right now it seems Warner are being cautious and not wanting to risk their stable income.

*edit* I do think the Studio Tour is actually a red herring here. No, I think the crux of the issue lies in Warner Bros probably asking for a far higher licensing fee and royalty rate than what has come before and Universal are reticient to pay those exorbitant amounts when they can replace Potter with LOTR at a drastically reduced amount.

 

[Alicia]

Which brings us to UGB, if it had Potter I'm very confident it would bring in more via licensing and royalties than the Studio Tour does, just on the sheer weight of it's increased attendance. But that's something the execs and JK will have to consider here.

The Studio Tour itself may not even need protecting from UGB, its popularity is such that it could easily live among UGB without seeing a huge drop in visitors. But it's up to Warner whether they want to risk it or not and right now it seems Warner are being cautious and not wanting to risk their stable income.

If the numbers are correct above, sounds like the tour makes more than Universal pays for licensing for one park per year, supposedly, (not counting initial licensing fee).

 

[rob@rar]

The Studio Tour itself may not even need protecting from UGB, it's popularity is such that it could easily live among UGB without seeing a huge drop in visitors. But it's up to Warner whether they want to risk it or not and right now it seems Warner are being cautious and not wanting to risk their stable income.

I agree that this is the key consideration for WB. Yes, I think a Wizarding World up the road in Bedford would cannibalise some of the attendance at their Studio Tour, but would it collapse entirely? I’m not so sure it would based on some of the Potter-mad kids in my wider family. They’d want to do both, once to the Studio Tour and probably repeat visits to Universl. If the reports about how much Universal pay WB/Rowling for their Potter rights are correct, I’d guess that any loss of business at the Studio Tour would be more than offset by the receipts that WB gets from Universal for their Wizarding World at UGB.

 

[xtpower]

If the numbers are correct above, sounds like the tour makes more than Universal pays for licensing for one park per year, supposedly, (not counting initial licensing fee).

I'm assuming that all 3 parks together, the amount in licensing would be above that of the Studio Tour?

I agree that this is the key consideration for WB. Yes, I think a Wizarding World up the road in Bedford would cannibalise some of the attendance at their Studio Tour, but would it collapse entirely? I’m not so sure it would based on some of the Potter-mad kids in my wider family. They’d want to do both, once to the Studio Tour and probably repeat visits to Universl. If the reports about how much Universal pay WB/Rowling for their Potter rights are correct, I’d guess that any loss of business at the Studio Tour would be more than offset by the receipts that WB gets from Universal for their Wizarding World at UGB.

I made an edit that potentially the issue has nothing to do with the Studio Tour but that Warner are just asking for too much. Especially if LOTR can be brought in as a replacement and for likely a far lower amount.

 

[Alicia]

I'm assuming that all 3 parks together, the amount in licensing would be above that of the Studio Tour?

I made an edit that potentially the issue has nothing to do with the Studio Tour but that Warner are just asking for too much. Especially if LOTR can be brought in as a replacement and for likely a far lower amount.

There are 6 Universal Parks around the world with Wizarding World lands. Each pays a separate annual licensing fee.

It’s worth noting that the WB Tour has and will continue to expand, adding capacity and more reasons for guests to come back. This likely plays a big role in them not wanting the new Universal park to compete.

Maybe someday they would allow it, but as I’ve said before, the rights holders don’t want it now.

 

[Della]

It's also tapped out in capacity, they max out every year (barring the covid year) so whilst it is a steady stream of income it is also a limited stream of income. I have no doubt that Universal pays more per year than the Studio Tour makes and I'm not including royalties either.

Which brings us to UGB, if it had Potter I'm very confident it would bring in more via licensing and royalties than the Studio Tour does, just on the sheer weight of it's increased attendance. But that's something the execs and JK will have to consider here.

The Studio Tour itself may not even need protecting from UGB, it's popularity is such that it could easily live among UGB without seeing a huge drop in visitors. But it's up to Warner whether they want to risk it or not and right now it seems Warner are being cautious and not wanting to risk their stable income.

*edit* I do think the Studio Tour is actually a red herring here. No, I think the crux of the issue lies in Warner Bros probably asking for a far higher licensing fee and royalty rate than what has come before and Universal are reticient to pay those exorbitant amounts when they can replace Potter with LOTR at a drastically reduced amount.

I took my Harry Potter mad 11yo son to the WB studio tour in March for his birthday. It was ridiculously busy on just a random weekday (lots of school trips) and it was hard to get tickets, they are sold out a few months in advance. I don't think a theme park would take much business from the studios, HP fans are going to want to see both - especially if they're travelling from USA or Europe, or even northern England.

I think there might be a game of negotiations going on behind the scenes here. WB want too much money from Universal for the rights, so Universal have said forget it we'll be successful without HP anyway. hoping WB will reduce their price when they see Universal planning to go ahead without HP. Universal might be secretly thinking if WB drop their price they may include HP afterall. Having HP as an IP would make them all so much money and make the fans so happy it would be mad not to.

*Normal disclaimer of I'm sure it will be a great park whatever, and if they didn't have HP they'd be sure to have other creative, original lands to make up for it. But I really want HP personally - I'd get a season pass for sure. Florida is out of reach financially for my family for now so its not as simple as just go to Florida for HP.

 

[Steeb]

I worry there is a lot of copium being taken here. A lot of statements like "imagine how much it would make Universal" like they haven't already had that thought themselves. It's a business, and they will make business decisions they feel are best. People need to stop talking like they know more about it than Universal do.

 

[xtpower]

Jim Shull deciding to add some fire to our discussion today. Saw Alicia has already replied to him too.

I worry there is a lot of copium being taken here. A lot of statements like "imagine how much it would make Universal" like they haven't already had that thought themselves. It's a business, and they will make business decisions they feel are best. People need to stop talking like they know more about it than they do.

There's no copium from me here Steeb. I've actually stated that I believe the crux is that Universal don't wanna pay the exorbitant amounts to get the rights. Actually I feel a bit insulted you infer my posts as 'copium', I've outlined that whilst I believe Universal having Potter would be more lucrative to WBD, but that they are being cautious anyway. I've also pointed out that Universal probably feel LOTR is a better option financially.

 

[Steeb]

Ah yes, the famously wrong Jim Shull.

 

[xtpower]

Ah yes, the famously wrong Jim Schull.

Sigh. Are you gonna accuse me of more copium? I saw his tweet and thought it was relevant, as an industry insider, his view still has 'merit'. As it is Alicia replied and refuted him.



So Universal are free to make Harry Potter 'rides' but the actual Wizarding World requires a new licensing agreement.

 

[Steeb]

Sigh. Are you gonna accuse me of more copium? I saw his tweet and thought it was relevant, as an industry insider, his view still has 'merit'. As it is Alicia replied and refuted him.



So Universal are free to make Harry Potter 'rides' but the actual Wizarding World requires a new licensing agreement.

Apologies, it wasn't intended as a dig at you for sharing the tweet mate, was more that Jim Schull often swings and misses in my experience.

 

[Alicia]

So Universal are free to make Harry Potter 'rides' but the actual Wizarding World requires a new licensing agreement.

No. No one else can make rides but Universal, but each Potter presence at a new Universal park requires an additional licensing agreement.

I think there might be a game of negotiations going on behind the scenes here. WB want too much money from Universal for the rights, so Universal have said forget it we'll be successful without HP anyway. hoping WB will reduce their price when they see Universal planning to go ahead without HP. Universal might be secretly thinking if WB drop their price they may include HP afterall. Having HP as an IP would make them all so much money and make the fans so happy it would be mad not to.


*Normal disclaimer of I'm sure it will be a great park whatever, and if they didn't have HP they'd be sure to have other creative, original lands to make up for it. But I really want HP personally - I'd get a season pass for sure. Florida is out of reach financially for my family for now so its not as simple as just go to Florida for HP.

There no negotiations behind the scenes. Universal is not allowed to use Potter in the UK because the rights holders are not permitting it.

It isn’t just about money, it’s about dilution of brand identity. The London Tour sits alone because WB wants it to remain special. It may be about more than money to them, ya know.

 

[tielo]

Looking at businesses, working together will always be more beneficial. I think European Potter fans are hungry enough to come to London to view the 2 part stage show and visit WB. Universal UK would be another add on and in the end will make more money for WB. But if Warner thinks their offering is too light to compete with Universal's I understand they will want to block it. But they are not the only party in this dance...

 

[xtpower]

Apologies, it wasn't intended as a dig at you for sharing the tweet mate, was more that Jim Schull often swings and misses in my experience.

No worries, was just a bit annoyed at the whole copium thing, I do try to keep my posts level-headed and fairly balanced and the copium bit just set me off. No harm, no foul .

 

[Steeb]

No worries, was just a bit annoyed at the whole copium thing, I do try to keep my posts level-headed and fairly balanced and the copium bit just set me off. No harm, no foul .

That's fair, it wasn't intended to be directed directly at anyone in particular, so sorry again about that.

I think the point I was trying to articulate is, when all signs point to no HP, unless that changes somehow, then trying to think otherwise will always lead to disappointment.

This might just be me, but I have a much better time putting my excited energy into what will/might be there.

Trust me, if they somehow got HP in there too, I would be very happy. I will be 90% butterbeer in consistency.